[Closed] Lance, latest have we done it yet.

Flippin' eck

He really did not want the shaming of evidence heard in court

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19364384 ]Link[/url]

Note sure the USADA has the authority to do this,

I reckon this is the new angle they are taking. Like speeding in on the continent, no power to give you points at home.

Waits for the first Lance Defence in the forum

That's Lance done. Who's next... Hincappie. Shame we can't bust all the greats.
Indurain, Hainault, Merckx et al

Sad sad day.

They cant take away his titles.
Who else can they give them to. They were all doping.

Don't care whether he doped or not, most other top guys of that era doped so he either beat them clean or was on a level playing field, no harm done....the problem of that era was cycling culture itself, not Lance Armstrong.

One thing I do hope that happens is for the UCI to put USADA back in their box.
The UCI need to tell USADA they are a doping agency and nothing more and that USADA don't have the authority to strip UCI awarded titles....it will make my day if the UCI tell the Yanks to poke it and allow Lance's results to stand.

Can't help but think that pro cycling is a farce. It will be real shame if this "witch hunt" starts and ends with Armstrong. The "authorities" should go after every cheat and strip them of their titles.

Next on the list - after all they were much better than the rest
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The UCI need to tell USADA they are a doping agency and nothing more and that USADA don't have the authority to strip UCI awarded titles

mikewsmith. Those guys are nice, so no problem there. One of the big issues (and I know this sounds childish) but it seems it was the way he was off the bike that people didn't like.
Yet for some reason the likes of Pantani are worshiped? and there's a memorial to Simpson, who after all brought the greatest shame to the sport.

sad day for cycling imo

So, as predicted on this forum a couple of days ago we now have LALA the martyr.
None of the evidence has been put into the public domain unfortunately and we can still hear that most famous of cycling sound bites 'most tested athlete, never positive' again and again even though we know both statements are false.

A great day for those who rode and ride clean.
Without showing the past stars as the lying cheating bullies they are the sport cannot progress with a non doping future.
Getting away with it sends out the message that it's ok to dope.

Next on the list - after all they were much better than the rest

Except they are not much better than the dopers of the past, their power output and climb times are lower than the dopers.

TBH

as there has not been any evidence formerly presented and the arguments etc not tested in court there is only 1 person who truly knows what happened and unless someone in here was Lances secret live in lover or he chooses to tell people we will not actually know. People will speculate either way.

Once a conspiracy is declared it is nearly impossible to make it go away.

A sad day for sport really. Governing bodies is p*ssing contests, rumour and peculation rife.

(If the USADA did get confessions from the other riders saying they saw and partook in drug taking they should be banned and publically shamed too.)

10 of former teammates are going to testify, somehow I don't think he's going to get an easy ride, it's not like he can pick up the phone and call McQuaid to make things rosy.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19364384 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19364384[/url]
Game over.

How can the USDA strip him of his 7 Tour titles, surly thats up to the Tour organisors to decide

Despite all LAs "boo hoo, they're picking on me" rhetoric he has just pleaded guilty to doping.

That means he can't sue anyone who says he did. The truth will out. Simione will want his money back for a start.

I so want him to be clean, like him or not he's an inspiration to an awful lot of people. This witch hunt does no one any good, everyone accepts that the majority of the peloton were doping in those days so where do you stop. You either have to go for everyone or draw a line under it. As oldgit said are you going to go back as far as Simpson?. 🙁

Technically I doubt USDA can strip the titles but symbolically and far more damaging from a general public perception point of view of Armstrong in the states, your own country no longer recognising your achievements is a coffin nail regardless of what the UCI do

He couldn't win against the USADA. He knew the only route was to arbitration. This meant mitigation/accepting their charges. The witnesses had the threat of lifetime bans from USADA if they didn't co-operate. Yes some were done and did it willingly but then if they didn't would their own prior results be stripped?

I think Lance put himself in the USADA's hands by registering through them in 2010 on his comeback? Thats where he went wrong.

IF he is stripped of his 7 titles then I think they should just cancel out the sport. Its a farce.

What if Wiggins dominates next years tour - when do the whispers start, the accusations and does Wiggins then start sending legal letters? After all if you keep quiet you are definitely guilty.

None of the top, middling or even lower ranking riders were clean. They all doped at somepoint. Its a shit sport. Supposed to be healthy yet all of them are smacked up. They will all try it in some form in the future. What a house of cards.

Let me just say hes not admitting to doping is he. Lets watch abit longer as the UCI has the say over their jurisdiction.

IF he is stripped of his 7 titles then I think they should just cancel out the sport. Its a farce.

Balls.

The farce would be to leave them with him so the fanbois still refer to him as 7 times champ rather than the true title:
[u][b]drug cheat, ring-leader of systematic doping on the Tour de France.[/b][/u]

So lets see, of the 7yrs who would be the cleanest rider and what was their position? Don't class anyone who was subsequently found to be a user - even if they were a smackhead like Miller who simply admitted.

Hora, are you the only person here who hasn't read [url= http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden ]this Michael Ashenden interview[/url]. Or did you just decide that it's not relevant?

If the USADA has a list of self confessed (Possibly by a Spanish type inquisition) drug cheats then this should be published and the full penalties applied to them too.

If they want to take a tough stand......

Did you read what I said about him about 2/3 pages back phil w?

Didn't the Spanish raids turn up alot of evidence - the same evidence that the authorities quietly supressed as it would implicate one of their own stars badly?

Why should Contador be allowed to keep all his titles?

None of the top, middling or even lower ranking riders were clean. They all doped at somepoint. Its a shit sport. Supposed to be healthy yet all of them are smacked up. They will all try it in some form in the future. What a house of cards.

You said this hora, are you saying it excludes LA?

no harm done....

An unsatisfactory outcome, as it would have been better for the evidence to be presented in court, but well done to USADA for pursuing this.

If you lot get hora to say 'ok, lance doped' are you expecting the internet to give you a special award?

The witnesses are saying hes not clean. Then they all are- we might as well say 'well its the pressure mate, I had to do to keep in my job as a domestique'.

Was George clean? Hes never had a positive but are you sure? why would you ride clean in a team full of team mates who were all doping around you and you didn't participate and kept quiet. Wierd.

Imagine having to smack yourself up just to keep your job.

Get another? Do something else? Sorry I don't get the 'must be fit, eat properly, train then **** with substances. I know miller et all explained why they did/had to be come on.

Did you read what I said about him about 2/3 pages back phil w?

Missed it first time, but I have now.

hora - Member
Ashenden - again I don't want to see analysis or opinion. I want to see bloody facts, either tests presented, caught and done by a professional body. So I will WAIT.

Clearly you've closed your eyes to the facts. The test's were done by a professional body, just not for the purpose of doping control. What more do you want? To do the tests yourself?

Well he's done exactly what I'd have done. Why dance to USADAs tune?
Filthy sport, sorry I know a lot of you love it but I shall not be wasting another minute of my time on it. Brit TDF winner or not.

After Festina, there was a window of opportunity for the sport to clean itself up. The leading light in not doing this was Lance Armstrong and the US Postal team. When you have a team that is doping and winning the blue riband race each year, it creates an environment where people have to dope to compete. I'm not saying the FIVE people who were accused are the sole reason for doping in cycling, but they helped foster an environment where not only was it needed but those voices trying to bring greater transparency were stifled and their careers ruined (with the complicity of the rest of the peloton it has to be said). The conspiracy of doping and silence they helped create and maintain led to Fuentes and the farcical situation with Contador. I don't care if he's stripped of the titles but finally being held up as a cheat is fair.

Next we get to see the case against them when Johan goes for his day in court. It should be interesting to see what evidence they have and the number of witnesses that come forward. And on that subject...

If the USADA has a list of self confessed (Possibly by a Spanish type inquisition) drug cheats then this should be published and the full penalties applied to them too.

And how do you propose to convince people forward in future? "Please come forward and help us clean up the sport but be aware you'll be banned for life when you do" doesn't seem like much of an incentive.

Without reading all of the to and fro above, I've got to say that I'm genuinely feeling quite sad right now. Way back I read both his books and followed and shouted at my telly for him in the tour. Over the intervening years I've come to have my doubts, which became deeper and deeper. But today to have those suspicions as good as confirmed still feels a real wrench. A bit like a relationship that was dwindling away but has now truly finished.

A sad day. 🙁

The test's were done by a professional body, just not for the purpose of doping control.

Then why doesn't UCI also let French Newspapers contract a Lab etc to carry out tests?

Do you see why not. Why it has to be one body.

And how do you propose to convince people forward in future? "Please come forward and help us clean up the sport but be aware you'll be banned for life when you do" doesn't seem like much of an incentive.

I believe there words were something along the lines of
"Everyone else said you were cheating rat out Lance and we will let you off"

Seems simple really, shouldn't be too hard to get more people cooperating.

Sky Postals next. Damn them guys are good. What are they using?

Those wheels on the team GB track bikes- must be some of gyroscope or cheat going on.

Hora invokes the cycling Godwins law of doping debate

 

Then why doesn't UCI also let French Newspapers contract a Lab etc to carry out tests?

What? A newspaper didn't do the tests. They were samples given during the tour and used for research by the same lab that does the doping tests for the UCI.

Which bit of that isn't enough for you?

Matt Seaton's article in the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/aug/24/how-lance-armstrong-strongarmed-cycling?CMP=twt_fd

Lance's official statement on it:
http://lancearmstrong.com/news-events/lance-armstongs-statement-of-august-23-2012

Sky Postals next. Damn them guys are good. What are they using?

Those wheels on the team GB track bikes- must be some of gyroscope or cheat going on.

If you look at the performance differential between what Lance and US postal were doing back then and what Brad and sky are doing now, sky look clean. However because of the past tainted image of the sport created by Armstrong and those generations of the sport, there is a doubt.

I hope that sky are clean, I want to believe they are, but if they are not it wouldn't shock me, or cause me to stick my fingers in my ears while singing lalalalala to drown out the reality.

cause me to stick my fingers in my ears while singing lalalalala to drown out the reality.

it's called doing a 'hora'

I must be missing something here. Or maybe I misread that Ashenden interview.

I thought that tests on LA's urine from the tour of 99, showed the presence of [b]synthetic[/b] EPO.

Whats to debate ?.

❓

I now don't care whether he did or did not.

I think a 10 year pursuit has cost an awful lot of effort, money and resources that could have been better used on the sport for the last 10 years. The rabid pursuit is depressing and an utter waste.

I thought that tests on LA's urine from the tour of 99, showed the presence of synthetic EPO.

Whats to debate ?.

Depends where your sensibilities lie.
The fact that the test was retrospective and [b]for research only[/b] (testing the efficacy of a new test for EPO), the fact that the results were leaked to/obtained by the press, the fact that results can't be used retrospectively. All sorts.

There's been so much on all of this that no-one knows who's done what any more. Everything is cloaked in allegation, rumour, lawsuit, counter-suit, conspiracy theories, fact, fiction and bias.

I'd long ago given up caring what the result of any of this was, I just think that the way they've gone about hounding one particular rider (whatever the outcome) is out of order.

Edit: +1 for what TooTall said ^^

Here's who to give the titles to.....
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From [url= http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2012/06/what-a-mess/ ]here[/url]