because of the fact that we hang on to “Overseas Territories” as a remnant of Empire
Bleedin'ell, Mrs Windsor is now is being held responsible for the UK's imperial legacy. Well it needs to cut both ways in that case - when she came to the throne Britian had a very substantial empire covering vast areas of the World, now 70 years later it has all but vanished.
Presumably we should give her personal credit for that or is she only responsible for what she inherited not what occurred during her reign?
The reason we have a constitutional monarchy in the UK is because it suits the interests of those who wield political power, not because of some sort of philanthropic act towards Mrs Windsor and her family.
It provides stability to the system and guarantees a central rallying point should it ever come under serious threat. It also provides when necessary the possibility to bypass the democratic process, not in the interests of the Queen but in the interests of bourgeois politicians, eg despite its name the royal prerogative is the prerogative of government ministers not the Queen.
You would struggle to find something as blatantly undemocratic as that in any other country which is classed as a democracy. Just because something is said to be done in the name of the Queen it doesn't mean that she is personally responsible.
There is no doubt that the ruling classes, the state, and the monarchy, all share common interests. But the idea that parliament cannot say no to the monarch is daft. We are talking about the UK here not Saudi Arabia. If the Scottish government in the earlier example had not responded favourably to lobbying by the Queen's lawyers no one would have been arrested for treason.
Abolishing the monarchy would certainly save a few quid but it would not necessarily represent a shift of power or result in Britian becoming any more democratic - depending on how it was handled and what replaced it the result could actually be the opposite imo.
I am very far from happy with the existing social order but I don't see dealing with the issue of monarchy as a priority.
I don’t see dealing with the issue of monarchy as a priority.
As it’s something you know little about (by your own admission), that’s hardly surprising.
the royal family cost the country 350 million a year.
That's just a week's worth of EU money, according to a bus I read once. Bargain!
I don’t see dealing with the issue of monarchy as a priority.
As it’s something you know little about (by your own admission), that’s hardly surprising.
Yup, I know very little about the monarchy and the royal family, but enough to know that the royal prerogative isn't the prerogative of the Queen, and that no government minister/first minister would be arrested for treason if they ignored lawyers lobbying on her behalf. Which appears to be more than some people.
And if you think abolition of the monarchy is a priority, as you appear to be suggesting it is, then it comes as absolutely no surprise to me.
It is precisely what I would expect from those who are obsessed with issues that have no actual bearing on the lives of ordinary people.
This is why I wouldn't have attended an event even if there were any around me
Attendence at a jubilee event is taken as support for the queen
Almost 17 million people took part in community celebrations during the platinum jubilee weekend, according to one poll, as the Queen highlighted the “sense of togetherness” in her thank you message to the country.
a record-breaking 16.75 million people took part in jubilee community events – one in four of the population.
Its in the Gruaniad again
It's in the Gruaniad again
You do realise that the article isn't exactly a damning indictment of the jubilee celebrations don't you TJ? It seems to be suggesting that the whole thing was a worthwhile exercise. Example:
"What’s particularly interesting and a bit surprising is that younger people were more likely to take part in community events than any other age group, which bodes well for the future. The weekend also shows how two awful years of Covid have left the country yearning for opportunities to connect with each other in our communities. Our challenge is to keep that going.”
And as for attending jubilee celebrations being seen as "support for the Queen", I spent 3 hours at a street party and not once did I hear anyone mention the Queen. The idea that I shouldn't have attended simply because some muppet might take it upon themselves to see as support for the Queen is ridiculous.
17 million servile, forelock tugging, stupid, flag shagging, sheeple and little englanders according to some on this thread.
All genuine quotes directed at anyone daring to enjoy a piss up with neighbours or attend a community event this weekend.
The contempt and hostility some have for so many of their fellow citizens for not holding the 'correct' view is sad and depressing.
a record-breaking 16.75 million people took part in jubilee community events – one in four of the population.
I wonder what proportion were sheeple who disapprove of Monarchy but you know, like a bit of cake and a chinwag with their neighbours!
The grauniad coverage has been awful on this IMO. I am somewhat annoyted. always beena very english paper but this is poor IMO
You have been counted as a supporter of the monarchy. If it don't bother you fair enough. 🙂
Its contempt for those who support the monarchy ( I accept Ernies position that he doesn't even if I don't agree)
The jingoistic traits in some are abhorrent to me.
Its not about not holding the correct view. thats a classic empty attack line You attack those who don't follow your "correct" line
You attack those who don’t follow your “correct” line
Who have I attacked and what is my line? I called you out for insulting me and a lot of other forum members with your classy flag shagging little englander comment. I haven't used offensive language or attacked anyone on this thread.
Can I apologise for offending you blokeuptheroad? the comment was not aimed at individuals but on the overall thing
personally I find fawning over imported aristocracy very offensive. I find the symbolism abhorrent.
Edit - we have crossed posts
I find the othering of those who don't want to join in unpleasant.
You have been counted as a supporter of the monarchy. If it don’t bother you fair enough. 🙂
I'm outraged!
So you should be Ernie!
the royal family cost the country 350 million a year.
I'm no royalist, but I'd like to see your working. It's also a bit disingenuous to imply that it's people's taxes that pay for the Royals. You could argue that if we just seized the Crown Estates then that revenue would all go to the public purse, but I'd be a bit uncomfortable with encouraging this government to think that seizing people's property because we disapproved of them a bit was a legitimate exercise.
The Queen’s official expenditure is met from public funds in exchange for the surrender by The Queen of the revenue from The Crown Estate. The Core Sovereign Grant is calculated based on 15% of the income account net surplus of The Crown Estate for the financial year two years previous. The Crown Estate surplus for the financial year 2017-18 amounted to £329.4 million, thereby producing a Core Sovereign Grant of £49.4 million for 2019-20.
TJ thank you. Just to add I agree with this:
I find the othering of those who don’t want to join in unpleasant.
But I have certainly never done that and I don't think anyone on this thread has. I have no issue with anyone who does or doesn't want to join in.
Edit to say, you can count me as a supporter of the monarchy if you like, but I'm not!
Yup, I know very little about the monarchy and the royal family, but enough to know that the royal prerogative isn’t the prerogative of the Queen, and that no government minister/first minister would be arrested for treason if they ignored lawyers lobbying on her behalf.
Did anyone other than you claim either of those things? Some people have tried to explain to you some of the ways that the Monarch and their heir actually shape government policy, but you've ignored their attempts to inform you.
I wonder what proportion were sheeple who disapprove of Monarchy but you know, like a bit of cake
That’ll be me. As per my previous post, I’ll willingly attend anything if there is free food, anything.
I am fairly sure some did on the thread
Its bread and circuses and in the middle of a huge political crisis and desperate times for many the media was just full of fawning over the royals
Bread and circuses
Bread and circuses
And hopefully cake!
I’m no royalist, but
Oh here we go.
Mmmm… cake…
@funkmasterp you have been the voice of (in)sanity on a fractious thread and made me laugh more than once. Keep up the good work!
That’ll be me. As per my previous post, I’ll willingly attend anything if there is free food, anything.
Monster
I just tried to buy a cake for delivery tomorrow... fool! All the fancy cake were eaten this weekend, weren't they.
It’ll be great when the Queen dies (not for her) because there’ll be a somber party with food, but crucially, all the royalists will be too sad to eat any of it. I’ll be there, doing my bit.
Monster
Munch?
the royal family cost the country 350 million a year.
I’m no royalist, but I’d like to see your working.
Last time I heard of this, the number was something like the amount of money the state could make if it owned the assets the crown does and put the profits back into the exchequer, or some similarly dubious reasoning. That's why the estimates vary so much - the numbers can include or exclude whatever you want to justify whatever position you already hold...
It’ll be great when the Queen dies (not for her) because there’ll be a somber party with food, but crucially, all the royalists will be too sad to eat any of it. I’ll be there, doing my bit.
TBH most people will be sat in the corner sobbing over the enforced mourning period when all the tv channels are playing the same tributes on a loop for x weeks and all the streaming services and sports competitions have been closed down as a sign of respect 🙂
Thats it molgrips - plus the cost of all the security and so on.
TBH most people will be sat in the corner sobbing over the enforced mourning period when all the tv channels are playing the same tributes on a loop for x weeks and all the streaming services and sports competitions have been closed down as a sign of respect
Will I be able to ride my bike?
On demand TV will be there, and I doubt they’d close the pubs.
All the fancy cake were eaten this weekend
Bread and circuses
Let them eat toast.
It'll be a bad day when the queen dies - because it'll be another enforced non-working day for self-employed like me.
Commiserations and all that but it will cost me.
Free cake won't compensate for that.
Will I be able to ride my bike?
No! Horse riding only and just the fancy dancing type (dressage?) as a sign of respect or something.
Free cake won’t compensate for that.
Not sure how to respond.
I'm no Royalist, my first fight with my family was refusing to wave the flag when HRM drove past on her way to dish out Maundy Money in Ripon Cathedral. However, I've lived in Germany for 18 years and it's amazing how much they would prefer a figurehead with pomp than a President who nobody really gives a s*** about.
We currently have a Tory government taking a massive shit on everything and an opposition meekly gobbling off in the corner and the monarchy is the problem?
I shudder to think of the shitshow that we'd look like as a Republic presently. Yeah, there might be a few more quid in the coffers, but would that really make that much of a difference right now if it were so?
I don't think we're in any place where we'd learn the lessons of others to make a better system simply because we have absolute ****s in charge and wet blankets across the floor.
I’ve lived in Germany for 18 years and it’s amazing how much they would prefer a figurehead with pomp than a President who nobody really gives a s*** about.
Well they weren't very happy when we provided them with Queen Victoria's grandson.
Typical Germans...... always miserable about something.
So I spent the jubilee enjoying glorious trails in glorious sunshine at EWS Tweed
I dropped the wife and kids at my brother in law's on the Wirral for the weekend
On Saturday they selected this activity to take my kids and nephews to this..
Multicultural Platinum Jubilee Event at Wirral Change
"A Multicultural Platinum Jubilee celebration takes place at Wirral Change on the 2nd of June (11am – 3pm). There will be lots to do, including, donkey rides, bouncy castle, fairground rides, katumba drums, food and drink, face painting, circus workshop, stalls, lion dance…and much more"
If you're familiar with Phoenix Nights family fun day you know where this is going...
So they had multicultural dancing
https://flic.kr/p/2nrRcrh
Donkey rides
https://flic.kr/p/2nrHu9i
Fairground rides, tbf it was all free & my son was loving it
https://flic.kr/p/2nrNQeu
Which the local smackhead refused to get off (my daughter is the one not in the hood)
https://flic.kr/p/2nrP5aA
And she objected to my wife & her brother taking a video
https://player.vimeo.com/video/720017212?h=dbdac83c2a