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It wasn't my question, aracers, it was Rusty's beartrap. I just got fed up with being asked to jump in it and decided to turn hunter.
...and yeah, I'm going to use the same escape trick as everyone else. I don't accept the premise.
He's said today he's gonna scrap all hospital car parking charges.
Tomorrow he's promising all 6yr old girls that Unicorns will be bred once Labour are re-elected.
I know (sigh). I can't believe that when the saw the local election results, knew that the tories were launching their manifesto today, etc that they thought "I know, I've got something which is really going to win this thing for us - hospital car park charges!"He's said today he's gonna scrap all hospital car parking charges.
For those not trying to be pedantic and clever, a totally acceptable answer to Rusty's question is that the cuts weren't acceptable and the tax increase is, it's really only a trick question if you want to make it one. Is that what you're trying to say there, oob? It really would help to be explicit - what makes you look like using an "escape trick" is continuing to bob and weave in exactly the way you still are. Spit it out - exactly what is your opinion? I'll even make it easy and partially multiple choice (though only one option gets a really easy time):
1) I disagree with the cuts and agree with the tax increase
2) I agree with the cuts and the tax increase and justify the cuts because...
3) I disagree with the cuts and the tax increase and justify not having the tax increase because...
4) I agree with the cuts and disagree with the tax increase and justify that because...
"Unicorns"
Don't knock it, in the insane auction of promises in the last days of the last election Cameron was promising unicorns and it worked for him. (To a degree.)
Dear god - right, if anyone sees me posting in any political threads on STW ever again can they please remind me to GTFO. I'm done.
[quote=AlexSimon ]He's said today he's gonna scrap all hospital car parking charges.I know (sigh). I can't believe that when the saw the local election results, knew that the tories were launching their manifesto today, etc that they thought "I know, I've got something which is really going to win this thing for us - hospital car park charges!"
I don't know if it's because I'm neither as emotionally involved with the Labour party or as determinedly against them as some on here. But like the BH thing I don't think this is such a bad idea from an electoral perspective. Sure maybe there are bigger issues, but most people don't understand the big issues, and this is a nice little thing which people will think is a good idea.
Tomorrow he's promising all 6yr old girls that Unicorns will be bred once Labour are re-elected.
THEGUARDIAN.COM 🙂
1) I disagree with the cuts and agree with the tax increase
2) I agree with the cuts and the tax increase and justify the cuts because...
3) I disagree with the cuts and the tax increase and justify not having the tax increase because...
4) I agree with the cuts and disagree with the tax increase and justify that because...
5) I disagree with the cuts - the SNP got that right. I have no idea about the tax for high earners, the point of the revenue sweetspot is anyone's guess. (Indeed, the only reason I posted on this thread yesterday was to work out how much Labour needed the income from the Higher earners and the FT article suggests not much so far.)
I saw a few positive remarks on Twitter too. I don't get it.
IMO they need to clearly demonstrate day after day how they can afford to spend. How the tories are syphoning off money from tax payers to the wealthy and how they'll stop it in a credible way.
To be honest their 95% tax freeze 5% tax increase was the closest they've come, but they need to join the dots and explain why £80,000 earners are going to pay this instead of increase tax avoidance activities or move abroad.
Whenever they talk about the NHS getting extra funds they also need to talk about how efficient and cheap the NHS is compared to the private healthcare of other countries, so that people can see that it's wise spending.
Same with every other promise. Tell us how adding 10,000 police actually saves us money in insurance premiums, or whatever. Join the dots. Make people believe they have a firm grasp of the consequences!
Why would we need 10000 extra cops when Amber Rudd told us crime is down by a third?
5) I disagree with the cuts - the SNP got that right. I have no idea about the tax for high earners, the point of the revenue sweetspot is anyone's guess.
Not that hard, was it?
🙂
That's not the question you asked!
Election debates happening ish [url=
QT[/url]
Corbyn and May not on the same stage and Labour will have to think of someone other than Corbyn to put up in one of the debates.
May and hubby on One show and Corbyn aswell!
Will May be asked about disability cuts in any of these programs? I think not!
And third, both the Tories and Labour face an intriguing choice about who they will put up for the seven-way debate moderated by Mishal Husain.
I can understand why the incumbant doesn't want to do the debate, and I can understand how if May isn't doing it Corbyn shouldn't. ...but using standins has all the same drawbacks of May/JC doing it so WTF?
Anyway the Labour standin should be Chuka, if he'll do it. I expect it'll be John MacDonnel though he's usually quite good in face to face interviews.
Labour will have to think of someone other than Corbyn to put up in one of the debates.
Ohhhh, make it Dianne, or Lady Nugent, or the Marxist liar, or the pissy little thing with the northern accent - it'll be ace.
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WHATWILLYOUSTORE.COM Dear god - right, if anyone sees me posting in any political threads on STW ever again can they please remind me to GTFO. I'm done.
This isn't a political thread. It's a rightwingers w***athon.
jekkyl - MemberHe's said today he's gonna scrap all hospital car parking charges.
Tomorrow he's promising all 6yr old girls that Unicorns will be bred once Labour are re-elected.
You're right, he should have done something more prime ministerial like repeat a promise that you've personally broken in 2010 and 2015. (in this case, Theresa May's immigration nonsense, but other broken promises are available)
or the pissy little thing with the northern accent
Who's that then?
Rebecca-whats-her-whinge.
dazh - Member
This isn't a political thread. It's a rightwingers w***athon.
True, been said many times.
However, if it highlights how unpleasant some of our fellow forumites are, it may have served it's purpose.
Agreed. Cranberry's comment above a perfect example.However, if it highlights how unpleasant some of our fellow forumites are, it may have served it's purpose.
Best quip I heard lately (think it was Question Time on R4). Talking about the demise of UKip.
Someone said that it was really obvious - if your anti-immigration, xenophobic, anti-environmental and pro neo-liberalism, you don't need UKip anymore , you've got the Tories now. They're definitely moving to the right in a nasty way.
"They're definitely moving to the right in a nasty way."
So how close would you say they are to needing to be banned and made an illegal organisation?
Why do you miss represent or exaggerate to a ridiculous degree every time?
"Why do you miss represent or exaggerate to a ridiculous degree every time?"
So any suggesting of needing to be banned is an exaggeration to a ridiculous degree? Meaning they are long way away from needing to be banned?
In relation to what edenvalleyboy said, yes. What's banning got to do with it? Something can be nasty without being banned.
"What's banning got to do with it?"
Popped into my head as a good measure of how unacceptable they are in people's minds.
What else can people say in defence of the Tories? It's not like you could ever argue (in the Tories defence) that they were a caring, equalitative, empathetic, anti-oppressive political party. So the only defence to being called nasty is to deflect the comments in other ways.
you could ever argue (in the Tories defence) that they were a caring, equalitative, empathetic, anti-oppressive political party. So the only defence to being called nasty is to deflect the comments in other ways.
So why would people espouse thier values, cause it aint for fiscal reasons, they've been woefully inadequate liars on the economy since Major. Every economic target missed. Moodys downgraded The aaa rating.
So why would people espouse thier values
People have been made more nasty. They weren't particularly pleasant pre-2010, but since then we have had 7 years of relentless nastiness. Social conditions have been made worse, working terms and conditions diminished along with wage depression on a large scale.
Then introduce the scapegoats called the poor, the disabled, and the immigrants. Reinforce whose to blame via your friends in the press, and we end up here.
Then brexit and the further burning of the rights and protections of the population(this is what Brexit is really all about), and you end up with the low regulation, low tax economy the tories want. This equates to a low wage, reduced public services, and few employment rights and protections for ordinary folk.
The Tories really must be pissing themselves when the very people they have attacked over the last seven years vote for them in the next election, really says it all about the stupidity of these people.
Of course the undemocratic FPTP system helps considerably. And the absolutely p*ss poor opposition.
This feels like 1980's again. Huge majority for the Tories, the Labour party in socialist irrelevance. But you have to look on the bright side, since people are trying to equate May with that other tory Prime minister, Brexit will be May's "poll tax" moment.
Very well put El-bent
The Tories really must be pissing themselves when the very people they have attacked over the last seven years vote for them in the next election
But I don't believe this to be the case, though granted some will vote Tory outside their own self interest by swallowing the lies, say the smaller buy to let Rentier, the holier than thou Hyacinth Bucket, the figures in the last GE of 26% or thereabouts suggested that the Tory Party only in the main attracts those voting out of genuine self interest, for whom financially the Tory Party really are the best bet.
But I don't believe this to be the case, though granted some will vote Tory outside their own self interest by swallowing the lies, say the smaller buy to let Rentier, the holier than thou Hyacinth Bucket, the figures in the last GE of 26% or thereabouts suggested that the Tory Party only in the main attracts those voting out of genuine self interest, for whom financially the Tory Party really are the best bet.
Some, lets say traditional labour voters will vote tory at the next election purely for immigration reasons, you only need to look at the regions who swung it for vote leave.
Also you have to take into account the "law of diminishing returns." People who are "conservative" in their thinking, they see that education has got worse and more expensive in the form of university fees, the NHS is struggling, their own wage depression etc, privatised utility bills/train fares rising all the time, all little trickles that so far in their minds only make a small stream, rather than a tidal wave.
These people over the years have become conditioned to lose a little bit at a time, rather than gamble on voting for a party that they have been told can't be trusted on the economy/their economic well being, so they vote tory, There are a lot of these people around.
Its a slow death, but a death all the same.
It's a depressing thought, but I make you right....
Yeh can someone explain to me Teachers and NHS staff who vote Tory? I don't get it
Teachers? Maybe high ranking academy staff and directors, NHS? I seriously doubt any would vote Tory
I'm sure there are plenty teachers and NHS employees who vote tory. Probably more than you'd think. They'll be the type who are ambitious, think they're better than their colleagues and deserve higher pay and/or promotion.
So the "Hyacinth Buckets" of my earlier post?
Ambitious? Bastards. I bet they're all massive racists and genocide enablers as well.
CaptainFlashheart - Member
Ambitious? Bastards. I bet they're all massive racists and[b] genocide enablers as well.[/b]
They will be if they vote Tory
Want me to post up Callums list of deaths, again?
The Tories really must be pissing themselves when the very people they have attacked over the last seven years vote for them in the next election, [b]really says it all about the stupidity of these people[/b].
Which explains why labour will lose. Calling your key electorate stupid isn't going to help.
that was El Bent, not the Labour Party per se...
Whose w***athon was this again? 😉
My own fault, in my defence there's a 3 year old balancing on my arm as I read newfeeds...
@ulysee if you want me to fact check your posts in advance just let me know 8)
Newsnight now picking up on the Labour -> UKIP -> Tory voter transition. Labour on,y have themselves to blame tese past 10-15 years by not listening to key voter concerns.
On Tax at least the Lib Dems said they would put tax up by 1p for everyone, that raises £6bn. Whatever the Momentum / Marxists etc say you cannot raise enough money from "the rich" to pay for the extra spending they want. The numbers don't work.
As an aside removing the personal allowance for those on £125k+ brings in approx £4.5k extra per person (done by Brown) and NI is uncapped now thats an extra 2% so top tate of tax is really 47% plus the 12.8% employers NI so tax take is already 69.8% for every £1 earnt above £150k
It doesn't really matter what Labour say about anything as Corbyn is unelectable as a Prime Minister.