But lack of experience of war zones or killing people might.
Can't see it. They're obviously highly motivated to get themselves over there, unlike the locals who probably don't have many options.
It's not like they're fighting western troops.
Yeah, but they're fighting Kurds who are tough bastards and expert in Guerrilla warfare. Just because they're not western......etc etc
They're obviously highly motivated to get themselves over there
I don't think an ability to get yourself to Iraq necessarily equates with an ability to cut someone's head off. Specially if your experience of life has been relatively secure and violent free.
I don't think an ability to get yourself to Iraq necessarily equates with an ability to cut someone's head off. Specially if your experience of life has been relatively secure and violent free.
You seem to be suggesting that foreigners are pre-disposed to hacking of heads and a British upbringing makes it somehow more difficult? Hacking of heads is universally unusual, not a life skill, even in the middle-east.
You seem to be suggesting that foreigners are pre-disposed to hacking of heads and a British upbringing makes it somehow more difficult? Hacking of heads is universally unusual, not a life skill, even in the middle-east.
LOL, Ernie you racist.
To calmly cut some ones head off with a knife, you have to be warped beyond repair.
I used to work with someone years a go who tried to show me a video on his phone of some one cutting a pigs head off.
I pushed him away, and he continued to watch it laughing, then when it was finished told me it was sick .
I said your ****ing sick. But wonder how hard it would be to condition someone with normal feelings of compassion and empathy to become a blood thirsty sicko.
I am sure some people are born that way, but if you think of what went on in the coliseum in Ancient Rome for instance I think it must be a taste that can be aquired.
Slightly off topic ,
During one of the golf wars, I saw a photo of a us soldier sat on a transporter plane with "kill em all"scribbled on his helmet. And said to a friend that's your problem right there, that is why there is so many friendly fire incidents.
He said what would you write on your helmet, I said "tell me which way to shoot".
Playing devil's advocate here, so don't judge me too harshly:
Say you'd held your dying 4 year old daughter in your arms, as she screamed her last breaths after having her legs blown off by an allied drone strike.
Imagine the despair and hatred that would forge into your soul.
Obviously, this guy being British, is less likely to have experienced these things 1st hand, but being surrounded by men with this kind of background and legitimate venom, being young and impressionable with something to prove could be the motivation required for such graphic acts of violence.
On that note, just because a drone operator is remote from the action, it doesn't make them any less barbaric; you could argue it's more cowardly.
Imagine the despair and hatred that would forge into your soul.Obviously, this guy being British, is less likely to have experienced these things 1st hand, but being surrounded by men with this kind of background and legitimate venom, being young and impressionable with something to prove could be the motivation required for such graphic acts of violence.
On that note, just because a drone operator is remote from the action, it doesn't make them any less barbaric; you could argue it's more cowardly.
Good post, killing from afar allows you to do these things more easily with less psychological impact for the killer. However, this does mean that a drone operator is probably a more normal functioning member of society than someone who beheads a prisoner. It's been argued that western intervention in Iraq (Afghanistan is less black and white as AQ's infrastructure was wiped out) created more terrorists because of precisely the point you raised.
I guess the only marginal difference comes down to what the justification is for your actions and whether you actually intended to blow a four year olds legs off.
However, this does mean that a drone operator is probably a more normal functioning member of society than someone who beheads a prisoner.
I disagree, give me the remote control and I would drop the bombs on Isis while they were in the act of attacking a city full of innocents.
But I would not behead them as I would not seek ceremony or pleasure in the act of killing them.
I feel unhappy about treading on a snail or chopping a worm in half with the shovel.
But would see stopping Isis as a job that needs doing and not a blood sport .
If you could kill 5000 people with a drone and 70% of them are probably guilty
[b]OR[/b]
behead Tony Blair and save 50,000 lives in the future due to yet to be secured arms sales
what would you do?
I would not behead anyone as I am not a sick bastard.
Drone strikes are on convoys of armed men or artillery or generally military hardware.
Isis has taken fruitloopery to the extreme and the fact you can not realise this and condemn them and
there actions alone without trying to bring up someone else's atrocities as some sort of defence.
I disagree, give me the remote control and I would drop the bombs on Isis while they were in the act of attacking a city full of innocents.
But I would not behead them as I would not seek ceremony or pleasure in the act of killing them.
I feel unhappy about treading on a snail or chopping a worm in half with the shovel.
But would see stopping Isis as a job that needs doing and not a blood sport .
Errr, you are kind of agreeing with me Chip. Beheading someone with a knife is very different psychologically to hitting the red button whilst looking at a pixelated FLIR image.
However, I'm not sure which one is scarier. Personally I think it's the latter, as it allows essentially good men to kill more easily.
chip - Member
I would not behead anyone as I am not a sick bastard.
Drone strikes are on convoys of armed men or artillery or generally military hardware.
Or weddings/middle lane hoggers etc
Sorry I imagined a not. Speed reading error.
Don't call me Ernie 😀
Whilst I appreciate propaganda comes from both sides, I'd say the fact that the U.S. and UK are reticent to discuss the ongoing drone strikes (which are somehow not classified as war) shows some level of guilt, whereas the footage displayed here seems pretty genuine and not attempting to hide anything, though some of the figures may be up for research and debate:
If they are economic with the truth about this, just how much of the news can we trust?
Don't start me off again,I must have been hypnotised some where along the line and cruise control set as a trigger word as, as I drove twenty junctions around the m25 on Saturday in the middle lane I remembered cruise control and broke out in to another uncontrollable fit of laughter And nearly had to pull into the inside lane.
as I drove twenty junctions around the m25 on Saturday in the middle lane
😀
Chip, the motoring troll.
Chip is Jeremy Clarkson and I claim my roaring V8 and right to voice annoying opinions with impunity due to my big hitter mates in Chipping Norton.
Bloody Hell!! Chip = Chipping Norton, I think I might have actually caught Clarkson in the act!
😆
I have a conspiracy theory for you jivehoney.
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The only one missing is blonde the dog.
Is RT in that link Russia today, if so I would take more stock JBJs ramblings.
if you asked one of the ISIS loons, would you want to
A) kill a number of people with a surgical drone strike
Or
B) dream up the most barbaric way to kill people, then hack their heads off with a blunt kitchen knife, then broadcast it on YouTube to the infidel
What do you reckon the answer would be?
What, are you telling me Hitler has a bus pass, and thanks to Nazi Experiments (Look into [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson ]Frank Olson[/url], who worked with Nazi scientists after the War on CIA's MK ULTRA program and died mysteriously(Codename Artichoke, I kid you not)) hasn't aged any?
Does he own shares in Werthers originals? What about Elvis? Is he grinding his replacement hips in a nursing home somewhere?
Anyhow, back on topic and a bit closer to conceivable realities: the vid has a fair whack of RT footage; as I said, propaganda comes from both sides, but just because our own state funded media (which has historic links to the intelligence services and given the election process of the BBC Trust, is perhaps not as impartial as we might be led to believe) doesn't report on things, doesn't mean they're not true...
if you asked one of the ISIS loons, would you want toA) kill a number of people with a surgical drone strike
Or
B) dream up the most barbaric way to kill people, then hack their heads off with a blunt kitchen knife, then broadcast it on YouTube to the infidel
What do you reckon the answer would be?
Don't be fooled by the surgical strike thing with drones...
but anyhoo:
You know how ISIS decapitate and crucify many of their enemies; well, in so doing, they may actually be reducing the number of deaths overall: by committing such barbaric acts, they scare the crap out of their enemies, which means less will engage them in combat and as a result, there may be less casualties.
I'm still really curious where they got weapons from in the 1st instance, before they captured anyone else's...
I used to buy the sun every day without fail.
But stopped after the whole phone hacking business , especially the phone hacking of milly dowlers phone I found disgusting and have not bought a copy since or any news paper , I will read them for free in the cafe or pub but won't give them my money .
I also untill the recent cliff debacle would have the BBC news channel on in the background at home, but not since.
I am fully aware of news agencies and the way they work.
But the information that leads me to believe Isis is abhorrent is coming from them through social media.
And not the work of the wests propaganda .
You know how ISIS decapitate and crucify many of their enemies; well, in so doing, they may actually be reducing the number of deaths overall: by committing such barbaric acts, they scare the crap out of their enemies, which means less will engage them in combat and as a result, there may be less casualties.
I'm still really curious where they got weapons from in the 1st instance, before they captured anyone else's...
These are people who kill people because they don't share there religious ideology.
They are not chopping off heads to save lives.
I have a conspiracy theory for you jivehoney.
Loling at that photo. I can't find it, but I read an interview with Bruno Ganz once where he went out in Bavaria to a Wagner concert looking like Hitler - causing someone to crash their car and another to faint at the entrance to the venue.
They are not chopping off heads to save lives.
I'm not going to argue with you there; I was being a bit of a smartarse in all honesty
ISIS certainly appear to be a nasty bunch and no mistake, but I'm concerned by the level of Islamophobia which seems to come with it, which the media seems to be capitalizing on.
Though we like our intellectual superiority, at the end of the day, we are all animals:
If a dog has been mistreated all it's life, or trained to fight, it'll never fully settle down... though you can lament it's lost potential, if it is constantly on the attack, then something has to be done.
However, that doesn't make all dogs bad
Growing up in the late 70s and 80s my best friend was Muslim.
Every schoolday morning I would get round his house early and would have to wait in his living room watching a ****stani film which involved much dancing and singing in urdu on VHS while he rushed down his breakfast.
We would get to school early, so we could play football before registration, played football at break, lunch and after school untill the numbers dwindled and we went home,
My mum worked so I spent many afternoons at his house and ate dinner with his family at the table. I watched him pray at home and went home when they had to go to the mosque and When his older sister got older and he would sometimes have to chaperone her, much to his annoyance as he would rather be doing something else.
His dad was a lovely man who drove tube trains and would often come home and produce two red rovers from his pocket and we would bugger off on the busses.
His mum did no speak much English but she always smiled and I saw love in her eyes when she looked at me.
I understand the difference between Muslims and extremists.
So, is the War On Terror over now? Did we lose?
Well as far as Iraq is concerned Bush and Blair declared it all sorted over 10 years ago.
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And they both agreed that we won.
Well, that's good to know, Ernie. Because if you hadn't explained it properly to me, I would have been under the misapprehension that it's been a huge disaster.
But if it's over, perhaps now we can get on with trying to make the world a better place[s] rather than maximizing Halliburton's shareholder value[/s] ?
Are we all in agreement that it's a bit shit?
Nice one chip. There are extremists in all cultures, but not many. Hence the term. If only we soft, liberal, tolerant types could find a way of disposing with them.
"We acknowledge the unfortunate timing of this product launch in our store windows, however we in no way support or condone any act of terrorism or violence. We apologise for any offence caused.”
Well it's reassuring to hear that, I had long suspected that Ann Summers might possibly habour terrorist sympathies.
Uh-oh, ISIS is an Egyptian goddess, you know what that means...
Are we all in agreement that it's a bit shit?
What replaced it? Does the UK government have a coherent policy to put in its place, and if so, what is it?
To arm the Kurds and hope Isis do not overrun them and gain control of even more of our weaponary.
To arm the Kurds and hope that if they beat Isis they don't go on to do anything unsavoury with them.
To arm the Kurds and hope that we do not find ourselves on the receiving end of them.
The goverment has made so many redundancies in our armed forces (as with our police force) while still actively recruiting new recruits, I suppose because they can pay them less. And realise we now probably could not fight our way out of a paper bag , and by acting this would soon become apparent to all.
I have a friend ex forces who would privately send out as much kit as he could to his serving nephews including body armour as our boys were left to do a job they were not properly equipped to do.
Well, I was talking about illuminati dildos:
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but that's a fair analysis re the Kurds.
Weapons need replenishing, meaning a continued revenue stream, good for economic growth (don't mention the debt)
In many respects, this is a Catch 22 for western governments, they've basically snookered themselves, using taxpayers money for global ugliness.
I strongly urge you to take the time to watch this:
Is it the truth? Judge for yourself
If you want to analyse more deeply, here's the source material:
http://scgnews.com/the-covert-origins-of-isis
Certainly makes more sense than the story we're being told in MSM; after all, with the vast intelligence network GCHQ/NSA/CIA/Mi6/Mossad/NATO have in place, the sudden rise of ISIS doesn't really add up.
the sudden rise of ISIS doesn't really add up
Certainly doesn't, something fishy is going on...
Another disgusting beheading and another is being lined up, who will be British so the IS say.
Politicians are starting to use fighting talk, even the usually mild mannered Barack Obama is starting to use words like 'destroy'.
And David Cameron is doing his best to be taken seriously, he sounds jolly well cross.
Is this whole situation about to balloon?
Is this whole situation about to balloon?
Only if they can fool enough people with pantomime:
given they've already admitted that allied forces tried to liberate those held captive some time ago, how is it that identities of those still captive are released in a staggered form, as if to build suspense and engagement, much like you might do when performing a play, or writing a thriller.
You'd imagine that the extensive intelligence services have a wealth of classified information, of which they only deem a few choice morsels fit for public consumption...
Ponder that, then:
watch Russell Brand give quite an impressive analysis, with a very insightful rant at the end:
I have more to say, but I am going to let suspense and tension build first...
I won't watch that video as Russell brand gets on my tits, just looking at his face winds me up.
Cameron is a spineless excuse for a man, and Obama is not far behind him. The British hostage is almost certainly a dead man walking.
With satalites and spy planes I hope there are hundreds of people somewhere looking at thousands of images making a big to bomb list.
@jive, the fact that 20+ people are being held hostage has been known for sometime and reported on various news sites. The names of most are known.
As for ISIL rising quickly no it's been a steady build up over 2 years with this having been reported, you can go back and find many articles online from the past. ISIL has been one of many jihadist groups but it has been the most successful either eliminating its rivals or persuading them to join it. It took the decidion to fight its rivals as much if not more than Assad. It's barbaric practices in Syria where well know but the West did not wish to intervene there effectively to aid Assad. It's been there incursion into Iraq and the actual and threatened atrocities combined with the fact that the Iraqi army did very little to resist them which has pushed the West into acting.