[Closed] Is it just me or is this place boring?

it may be a sweeping generalisation of a group, lifestyle or ethnic have it either way, but it aint Racism

You might want to consider looking the word "racism" up somewhere or, perhaps let us know what you think racism is?

I've had things stolen from my van twice. On the first occasion I saw the thief driving off (he tried to run me over) and took the number. I drew a picture good enough for the police to know immediately who it was. On the second occasion the van was in a locked compound with video cameras, the police had no trouble identifying the thieves. You'll never guess which ethnic group the thieves belonged to.

On the first occasion I knew where the culprit lived (the camp was next to one of my regular MTB trails and I spotted the car); back to the police who declined to do anything as "I'm sorry but we don't have two coach loads of CRS available".

All those reproachful words the PC on here love to bandy about I call "learning from one's experience and acting accordingly".

Edukator

I don't think the "PC on here" are trying to claim that no travellers steal. However, I think the issue is that your accounts of two incidents of theft or attempted theft don't prove that every traveller steals.

Just as, for example, not every cyclist ignores traffic lights, but plenty of angry motorists will claim they do, because they've seen some that do.

Well those that don't are in collusion because they all live on the same site and all present a united and armed front when the police turn up.

There's something of a gulf between "being politically correct" and "not making sweeping generalisations about an entire demographic."

My personal experience of friendly travelling folk is less than favourable, but I can't - well, I can, but I won't - tar the lot of them with the same brush based on interactions with a minority of them.

I've argued before about the word "chav;" it's not fair to generalise all the unemployed / impoverished young adults as chavs, but the ones who are breaking into sheds and stealing bikes, mugging old ladies for a few quid towards their next wrap, brawling in the streets at 11pm, and generally keeping Jeremy Kyle in gold bricks most certainly are chavs. Maybe the same is true of "pikey"? Some - most perhaps? - travellers aren't "pikeys" but the ones leaving a trail of crime and destruction in their wake can safely be classified as such? Maybe.

'pikeys' live outside of our society, contribute no tax whatsoever, are often guilty of petty crime and in some instances serious organised crime, they are not just Irish or English, they can be Albanian, Romanian, Czech and from all manner of ...

sounds like the super rich to me, tax havens, rigged markets, unaccoutability, oh and a gong or two thrown in......

The thread title needs changing now...

How about:

"Resentment towards authority, people above the law and outlaws".

I'm offended by the Gingerist post on the last page.

Or rather I would be, but luckily for me most of my red hair vacated my head years ago, and what is left has gone grey. 🙂

Czech and from all manner of races, hell I even have a Romany in my own lineage and yes I often refer to myself in a self deprecating manner as a bit 'pikey'.

Is one of you family gay or black? Perhaps you can be rude about them next?

It ain't racial it is a lifestyle choice, one actually worse than that the unemployed are

Some - most perhaps? - travellers aren't "pikeys" but the ones leaving a trail of crime and destruction in their wake can safely be classified as such? Maybe.

* i think most times it used it is racist tbh - read what is being said on here about them and every other gypsy thread
Could i start a thread on Asians and quote those posters verbatim and just replace the words to Asians or Black or gays - would that be ok ?

This is the most pretentious thread I've ever seen on STW.

tenfoot - Member
I'm offended by the Gingerist post on the last page.

Or rather I would be, but luckily for me most of my red hair vacated my head years ago, and what is left has gone grey.

You can always tell, even after the colour has gone. 😉

Pikey v ****

I must have missed that episode of Deadliest Warrior.

Grum, I just let out a proper hearty laugh, I think that's an internet first for me! Thanks! 🙂

The word Chav, is actually more offensive than 'Pikey' given it's recent use came as the description public and private school kids gave state school pupils. Back in the day, chav was a simple inoffensive greeting that street kids might use to each other, "alright chav?" fifties and early sixties, so now it used to insult any lower order group breaking ground in a tall poppy syndrome kind of fashion.

Either way, it is still extremely politically correct to demonise the use of slang from a googled pulpit of pseudo educated offence in my view purely to make someone feel uncomfortable on an internet forum and then to link it to racism.

The problem with 'isms' they are selective where their application should only apply when it is beyond the individuals ability by actual firm body type, to change, i.e.skin colour.

If I were born in ****stan and white, would it be a problem referring to me as a ****?

What about extremely tall people and calling them lofty, or short people being called a dwarf?
No PC 'ism' label for them? Yet equally as hurtful, probably more so than for the white ****, he could pretend he wasn't, so plausable deniability.

That's the problem with the easily offended PC, very narrow in their ism selection.

Yet a group who leach off us, pay no tax yet use our schools and hospitals, steal by their very nature, not contributing to a society deliberately yet still cherry picking the bits you need, is theft, so yes, all Pikeys are thieves. Show me a traveller who pays council tax, income tax and NI and I would not refer to that person as a 'pikey'.

Try to make me feel bad about the frivolous use of the word in describing someone acting in a mildy derogatory manner in jest and do it to my face in real life and I'll assume your having a 'bubble'.

That's got to be it really, it has at least pointed out the lack of boredom here once 'they' get going, the PC brigade.

What about extremely tall people and calling them lofty, or short people being called a dwarf?
No PC 'ism' label for them? Yet equally as hurtful, probably more so than for the white ****, he could pretend he wasn't, so plausable deniability.

You need a label to tell you you're being a prick to someone? You whinge about isms and labels yet cry when you can't find one.

You never answered the question earlier btw. Who did you used to be here?

The word Chav, is actually more offensive than 'Pikey' given it's recent use came as the description public and private school kids gave state school pupils. Back in the day, chav was a simple inoffensive greeting that street kids might use to each other, "alright chav?" fifties and early sixties, so now it used to insult any lower order group breaking ground in a tall poppy syndrome kind of fashion.

so now it used to insult any lower order group breaking ground in a tall poppy syndrome kind of fashion

I think wgm is a tax inspector certainly seems to want to check any travellers tax returns 🙂

Grum, I just let out a proper hearty laugh, I think that's an internet first for me! Thanks!

🙂

I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that.

As someone who knows traveller families, lovely as they are, generally they are upto mischief of one kind or another; they don't see it as mischief , 'jus makin a few bob' but its mischief. Sadly while they're fun to have a pint with (until they're drunk then its scary) no generalisations have been mad in this thread.

Also pikey is a made up word, call them pikey they'll knock you out, gypo you might live.

Anyway, back to the OP for one brief moment

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/best-cook-pan-for-bike-packing

I'd say its a mixed bag.

I find this place very entertaining, helpful and often fun. I am not finding this thread any much of the latter two now.

Myself, I think the [url= http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article851576.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/QUADROPHENIA ]mods[/url] do a good job - apart from the time they closed my threads linking to a very funny site which they thought "Affiliate Links" [I know the owner of the site, it is not AL, it just sucks[and at the same time is damn funny]] - but then "meh" we all make mistakes. And after wards I acted like a tosser, so I deserved it.

Cougar's attitude makes me smile, usually.

WGM - If I may stick my oar in - reading what you are typing, as-is. Yes you are being rude about and unfair towards Travellers if you call them Pikey. There are scumbags and there are non-scumbags. Persons of no fixed abode are not automatically scumbags, so you should not use derogatory language to refer to them, nor should you tar them all with the brush dipped in the bad-behaviour of some.

There is now a tax-free allowance of 8k+, so if a Travelling person earns less than that, they would not pay any tax on their income anyway -much the same as a low-paid shopworker for example. Not to mention Google et al.

They will be paying VAT and other taxes in the course of their lives in the UK won't they?

There is also the matter of treating people with respect. THAT is how we grow an integrated and tolerant society, and where people's natural talents shine through. Label them a Pikey, discriminate against them in other ways from assumptions and prejudice and you WILL find them on the edge of society - disillusioned and angry, ready to hit back at the society that has wronged them.

This is not "PC" this is just what's right.

Entertainingly - from [url] http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_correctness [/url]
"Passive-aggressive people who defend racism but don't want to be labeled that way attack dissenters as "politically correct.""

I had a few travellers living down the lane from my folk's house in Cornwall. One was a nice guy, had a hard life perhaps made a few mistakes but a good chap. It was when he was sent down [for possession of speed, which AFAIK he didn't take or own [grass yes, but not that]] that he picked up a smack habit. THAT was what killed him. Nice one "justice" system.

The other people that joined him there [against his will] - they were fairly crazy, nicked a bit of petrol, grew some grass on the hill and made a mess. But meh - I'm more worried about corporate tax dodgers undermining the cash-flow of the entire country. Not to mention the multi-nationals exploiting their workers and sourcing their minerals from militia-controlled child slave run mines.

Maybe it just me. And Bill Hicks.

Always a good time for Bill Hicks. The flag burning routine is a favourite of mine.

had a hard life perhaps made a few mistakes

Well when the train I'm on can't go anywhere because a gang of Roms have [url= http://www.letelegramme.com/ig/generales/france-monde/france/herault-vol-de-180-t-de-cuivre-cinq-interpellations-dans-des-camps-de-roms-31-01-2012-1585372.php ]stolen all the signalling copper cable[/url] along the line those litte mistakes add to reasons to dislike them. Note it took 180 gendarmes backed up with helicopters to safely make the arrests.

When my vehicles are broken into or attempts made to steal them (the damage to my garage mechanics security systems ran into thousands but they saved my van) those little mistakes make me angry. I'm not the only one - [url= http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2012/10/10/97001-20121010FILWWW00331-6-interpelles-dans-un-campement-rom.php ]again it took 150 BAC and Raid police to safely arrest the Roms who had already shot at the police.[/url]

Some groups of Roms make an honest living travelling around fruit picking, labouring etc. The camps in the major cities in France are not there because the occupants want to make an honest living. When a small minority are responsible for [url= http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2013/04/25/paris-40-voleurs-pris-sur-le-vif-en-train-de-faire-les-poches_898973 ]the majority of Metro robberies[/url] people's prejudices are justified.

This is just the stuff that amazes me about the mods, the racism / prejudice that is being spouted here is beyond debate, yet the mods let it roll. Is it because no-one has complained? Really, does it take some to press a button before you recognise it?

I see no difference between this and the old stereotypes we used to here about South Asian and Black people.

What conclusions are we to draw from this?

Prejudices (of the type being discussed in this thread) should never really be justified - I say that writing as somebody who has been the victim of (mostly harmless, sometimes pretty hurtful, and just a few times, pretty scary) it over the years.

I'm not surprised at the level of prejudice in France though. After all, only a few years ago, a far right party polled just under 18% in the presidential election.

What conclusions are we to draw from this?

That you want us to moderate and delete any opinions we disagree with? Yeah, that'll go down well, and encourage lively discussions. I can imaging my inbox now, you wouldn't believe the amount of crap some people send us when we ban them.

Or that you think that the best way of correcting things like prejudice is to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist, rather than debate those views and perhaps have them realigned during the discourse, educate a few people.

How am I doing?

[i]*heads off to delete all the football and cricket threads*[/i]

I cant believe I just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this crap. 🙄

Fine, Cougar.

Fear, fear is the key. People where I live fear the Roms because when they arrive the things they fear start happening. Prejudice is based on fear and when there are good reasons to be afraid I'm not going to criticise people for being prejudiced. Some [url= http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2012/09/28/01016-20120928ARTFIG00751-marseille-ils-ont-chasse-des-roms-et-s-en-expliquent.php/0?cmtpage=10 ]take matters into their own hands[/url] when attempts at a pact with the Roms fail.

Fear influences peoples habits and thus the economy, it only takes a few pick pockets to cut tourist revenues. My own choices include not owning a vehicle that the local Roms will view as a free source of spare parts or an easy sale somewhere abroad. That means I'll never buy another new van of the type they favour. I don't go to local village festivals because the Roms go and trouble follows - a police officer's son was killed in a local village a couple of years back by a traveler from the local camp. I can't shelter in churches anymore because the house of God is now invariably locked because of this [url= http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/region/la-surete-du-nord-interpelle-une-vingtaine-de-roms-pour-jna0b0n1111561 ]400 police needed to recover stolen religious objects[/url]

This is just the stuff that amazes me about the mods, the racism / prejudice that is being spouted here is beyond debate, yet the mods let it roll

I agree with Cougar, driving people's prejudiced, offensive (to some) views underground achieves nothing other than justifying the "PC gone mad" line. Better to have it in the open and a free debate. I'm surprised (in a good way) at the common sense line the mods have taken on this thread, and to be honest, I'm also surprised (in a good way) with the way the debate has been conducted on all sides (so far).

I'd rather racism was out in the open so I can challenge it than lurking in dark corners, festering away.

We used to have an expression as kids, "sticks and stones may break our bones but names can never hurt us".

The point I was trying to make, was that there should be no harm in using terms such as 'Pikey' to josh with each other in ironic banter without getting banned for it.

i.e. suggesting for instance that say Hora was being a bit 'pikey' in some humorous situation.

This came about because of the original suggestion that the forum was becoming boring precisely in the way that this thread has developed, in that the PC brigade weigh in with their 'offended sensibilities' and go into long diatribes as to how name calling is racist in virtually any circumstance.

I've made my position, I have no respect whatsoever for the 'Travelling Community' and reserve the right to call them names and if that means that under law I should now be locked up then so be it, just as well I am anonymous.

So that must also mean calling Scots Jocks, Irish Paddy, Welsh Taffy, and every other light humoured name calling falls within exactly the same categorisation, so if the mods were ever to let them get their way, then the place would be very boring, then no-one would come then the problem would be over.

You need different opinions to create discussion, but it's a sad day when folk are banned for them at the hue and cry of others, what happened to Nigel Farage in Scotland yesterday an exact example of lack of tolerance actually verging on racism if you think about it.

I wonder if it's because this place has a high percentage of Scottish posters, are they more intolerant than Southerners I wonder, are we Southerners more casually racist without realising it, who knows, but it does make the place interesting just as long as it is allowed to continue and one group prevented from dominating as they appear to be at the moment.

I've said enough on the subject and will try and bow out now before I do actually 'offend' anyone for real.

This has all become very negative. What it needs are some positive, uplifting stories about traveling folk, to debunk the myths and expose this racism (fascism? or is that too far?) for what it is! Finally!

Has anyone got any links, or can just recount some positive personal experiences about them helping old ladies across the road, rescuing kittens from trees? Or their many charitable works in the wider community.

Has anyone got any links, or can just recount some positive personal experiences about them helping old ladies across the road

Johnny Depp. Chocolat. Nuff said.

[img] [/img]

Now stop being racist everyone!

heads off to delete all the football and cricket threads

in that the PC brigade weigh in with their 'offended sensibilities'

very other light humoured name calling

perhaps i can send you to a gang area of america and we laugh as you light heartedly use the n word to them

Cheers Camo. I felt positive it couldn't [i]all [/i] be this cliched nonsense about their propensity for breaking into sheds, fly-tipping, ripping off old ladies for shoddy tarmacking, robbing peoples vans or curling one off in the middle of public footpaths.

There's always 2 sides eh?

Yes, Binners, it's true - factual evidence also of guitar riffing on quiet French rivers whilst wooing a Binoche. Well-rounded coverage of the traveller community, that.

i.e. suggesting for instance that say Hora was being a bit 'pikey' in some humorous situation.

You're deliberately not getting it, and you still haven't explained how using "pikey" pejoratively is any different to using any other racial epithet. I'm assuming that you wouldn't think it was acceptable to accuse hora of "acting like a ****", would you? Could you explain why you think there is a difference? As I've posted a number of times now, you're assertion that being a member of the Irish traveller community is a "lifestyle choice" is absurd and factually wrong.

This came about because of the original suggestion that the forum was becoming boring precisely in the way that this thread has developed, in that the PC brigade weigh in with their 'offended sensibilities' and go into long diatribes as to how name calling is racist in virtually any circumstance.

So, you complain that you might not be able to post something that others might find offensive, but you don't think people should be able to post a contrary view and challenge you when you are allowed to? That seems a bit contradictory.

You need different opinions to create discussion, but it's a sad day when folk are banned for them at the hue and cry of others

You seem to be looking for a problem that doesn't exist. You've posted a number of things that some of us disagree with. Those posts are still there. You are still here. The people who object to what you have said have stated their objections. It's a debate. No one seems to have been banned. As far as I'm aware no posts have been removed (and if any were going to be, my Shakoor Rana one would probably be higher up the list than any of your "pikey" comments). Not sure what the problem seems to be, unless you were hoping to get banned so you could consider yourself a martyr to political correctness?

Junkyard - lazarus

I will chip in for the taxi fare..

Would you be so kind?

Thanks, 70 quid should do it, I wonder if you could send it, Cougar will have the address just as soon as he's finished cleaning the bike he's going to send me...

I'll let you know how I get on, honest guv, could do your drive as well whilst i"m at it, I've got some tarmac left over from another job...

I've worked with quite a few traveller kids at the community centre where I work and they've been perfectly friendly and polite and haven't nicked anything. Unlike some of the other kids.

Yup, we live in a bourgeois part of town with a model primary school. The authorities thought it the ideal place to send the children from traveling families. The families took an active interest in the school including a gypsy music concert at the school fête. I bought their CD as I'll support any way they have of making money legally.

It was great for my son's education too. He learned never to leave his jacket unattended or it would disappear, only to lend things to kids that gave them back. To bring things home rather than leave them in his desk. That cheap stuuf is less likely to be nicked than nice stuff.

It gave me the opportunity to get to know the headmistress too. I had to remind her of French law and that fining all the kids when school property was stolen was illegal.

edlong - Member
Could you explain why you think there is a difference?

Because the term **** as well as being the description of an oil paint pigment, was an extremely unpleasant word to describe black people, black people will always be black, colour cannot be changed, being a 'Traveller' is a lifestyle choice and something not immediately apparent about a person, nobody has to be a Traveller, black folk have no choice, neither do short people, but that doesn't stop them being called dwarves though does it?

I miss Jamie
and TSY

They were proper funny blokes with good taste in music and good bicycle riders (Well TSY is, Jamie probably.)

Can't imagine for the life of me what they could have done to offend anyone so far as getting banned for it.

(Probably out of context with where this thread has gone, but it looked pretty boring from what I could see)

Jimmers isn't baned DezzieBee 🙁

He just doesn't love us no more.

being a 'Traveller' is a lifestyle choice

No. No it isn't. I've already explained this a number of times and quoted case law on it. Being born into a travelling family, part of a travelling community, one that is ostracised by pretty much all of the rest of our society is not a lifestyle choice, it is their ethnic origin. People who are born into Irish traveller families but end up living in houses will, in my experience, still identify as Irish Traveller when asked their ethnicity, same as a Polish, ****stani or Ethiopian immigrants will still identify as such regardless of whether they've married into a white, English household.

Changing their lifestyle / living arrangements does not change who they are, or where they came from. You just might not notice that they are Irish Traveller stock if you don't see them living in a caravan / fighting in pub / stealing / whatever other behaviour reinforces your prejudices.

Skin pigmentation is but one indicator of ethnic difference.

Irish is an ethnicity, irish traveller is not. It's not necessarily a lifestyle choice, but it's certainly not an ethnicity.

The law disagrees wrecker.

So, whitegoodman - previous forum name please.