Involved in a road traffic accident. Any advice?

Firstly, glad to read you are not hurt. That's probably the most important part.
Secondly, I recommend driving your car to loss adjustors and not letting them take it away. You will have more control to be able to argue.

I recommend driving your car to loss adjustors and not letting them take it away. You will have more control to be able to argue.

It got collected after the crash and taken away. I didn't feel like a 90 minute drive home after being rear ended and the car in that condition.

Loss adjusters called me today and I've uploaded some pictures.

No one was hurt but I feel a bit sore and stiff today. Didn't sleep well last night. I've got a constant headache.

Do not let a claims company take on your claim on your behalf.

It is not hard to manage your own claim, a bit time consuming potentially but anyone claiming to take it on with your best interests at heart is fibbing, they have their own interests front and centre, if not actually being complete scammers.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/embroiled-in-the-car-insurance-credit-hire-scam/

Get checked out by your GP - if you can get an appointment.

and also

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/car-insurance-claim-question-2/

So you are not unhurt, go to docs ASAP.

If you end up making a whiplash claim (that damage looks like a guaranteed case) don’t just take the lump sum pay out - fight for whatever you can (like ongoing care). My wife still suffers now (some 16 years later) and the £2k has been spent several times over on physio, private consultations etc. she really should have surgery but the risk involved means we don’t want to take the chance and have her end up in a much worse state.

My Golf was written off by a Royal Mail HGV a couple of years ago. Totally his fault. I was lucky that my witnesses were an unmarked armed police unit. Plus an ambulance!
Anyhow I wouldn't accept the first two offers as I argued that my car had never broken down, had been serviced regularly and I'd just got 4 new Michelin's. Bizarrely they paid out 2k more than the book value.
As I was traumatised but not injured I didn't claim a phantom injury.

Did you hit the car in front? Any evidence you stopped? (Dash cam, witness) van driver may claim you were still moving and he wasn’t the cause of damage to that car.

Hope you heal fast and get it all sorted quickly.

No one was hurt but I feel a bit sore and stiff today. Didn’t sleep well last night. I’ve got a constant headache.

Get thee to the docs ASAP to get that on your record.  It might fade quickly or it might not but even that is enough for a small injury claim

“Do not let a claims company take on your claim on your behalf.“

Very much this. Also if you get a “courtesy car” make sure you know who is paying for it, do not fall into the credit hire malarkey.

I had similar during covid lockdowns and didn’t get presented with T’s & C’s properly (the usual, “COVID mate, we’re not doing signatures blah blah”), didn’t realise a claims management company had been appointed, credit hire vehicle was given to me, etc etc. I continued to deal with my insurers not realising I had unwittingly entered into an agreement with the claims management company. Long story short it all settled in my favour but took two years of stress. [edit] Credit Hire bill ran to £11k for 30 days which could have fallen to me! Messy all round.

This was Admiral insurance and Auxillis claims management - I have no qualms about naming and shaming. Horrendous service post accident and formal complaint lodged.

I had to contest a similar situation years ago.

The company changed the van drivers report of what happened and invented a phantom vehicle that hit them from behind because they already had some nudgy-nudgy damage at the back of their van. I pointed out that the first point of impact would show the most damage (physics) and the comparative damage at front and rear of the van showed them up as complete liars and chancers. I also suggested in advance that if they started accusing me of reversing into them and causing the damage that way, they would also be lying (but I wouldn't put it past them to serially lie considering how they'd started out). This was ridiculous but I ended up with a no-fault outcome but lesson learned that any tangle with insurance is a PITA and idiots will chance illegal abuse of insurance claims on the perception it is a victimless crime.

This was Admiral insurance and Auxillis claims management – I have no qualms about naming and shaming. Horrendous service post accident and formal complaint lodged.

I had a bump last year and Auxillis are handling it through Admiral. They're bloody useless, luckily I refused the hire car, and had to multiple times, as I'd read some real horror stories about them.

Did you hit the car in front? Any evidence you stopped? (Dash cam, witness) van driver may claim you were still moving and he wasn’t the cause of damage to that car.

Key to that is how many impacts the driver in front felt - if he reports one, that's you being shunted into him. Not always easy to recall in the heat of the moment, of course.

Did you hit the car in front? Any evidence you stopped? (Dash cam, witness) van driver may claim you were still moving and he wasn’t the cause of damage to that car.

Yes, I got pushed into the car in front. There's no damage on mine and all I could see on his was the dirt was wiped off. The driver felt a very slight tap, just the one. He does not want to claim (so far)

luckily I refused the hire car, and had to multiple times, as I’d read some real horror stories about them.

Yes, this is my fear. Although no one is blaming me at the moment things could change. I don't want to end up with a bill I can't pay. Its all a bit intimidating really.

Get thee to the docs ASAP to get that on your record

I can't do anything on a weekend. I've not broken anything. I'm just feeling very stiff. Worst part if a headache just above my neck. I'll see how I feel Monday morning.

I don't like wasting NHS time, especially when there's strikes on etc.

 I wouldn’t accept the first two offers as I argued that my car had never broken down, had been serviced regularly and I’d just got 4 new Michelin’s.

I've looked after my car, replaced timing belt, clutch, suspension, brakes etc. Always serviced and changed the oil etc. It came from my wife's work which had serviced it well. I knew its history and it was a good car.

I'm not looking forward to buying another car and it possibly turning into a lemon.

I've been looking online for what I can get to replace it and prices have gone up a lot since last time I bought a car.

I think the headache could be an issue, I'd get that checked if nothing else. Do you have a walk in centre or non urgent care centre locally? I think presenting with pain after a car accident is a long way down the NHS list of time wasting reasons people turn up to A & E with.

Looks like my threads have already been linked to, just to reiterate, be very careful when you get a courtesy car, make sure that's what it is and not a hire car instead! As it happened, we didn't have to pay in the end, but it was a stressful thing hanging over us for a while.

Although no one is blaming me at the moment things could change. I don’t want to end up with a bill I can’t pay. Its all a bit intimidating really.

Don't really see why that should be; although insurance companies get a bad press, in general being hit from behind is pretty clear cut, they didn't leave enough braking gap. Even if you did stop suddenly, that's still their responsibility to have left space. So you should get a no fault claim and have excess paid back, and not affect your NCD

One thing not in your OP; why did the car in front stop?  There might be an argument you hadn't left enough space and so had to brake harder but it's still the van behind's issue to allow for even that. Hindsight etc but that's a reason to not close the gap to the car in front in queues so even if you are shunted you don't hit the car in front, also I realise impossible to always do that but it makes it clear cut. But the fact you barely touched him and the physics explanations absolutely justify your argument that the van behind pushed you into the one in front, and while there may be a small suggestion that the reason you hit the car in front was because you closed up too much, clearly it wouldn't have happened at all but for the van behind.

Downside is irrespective of it being no fault, and even if your NCD is maintained, you premium is likely to rise. Just because insurance companies use statistics to calculate their risk, and statistically people who have accidents are more likely to have other accidents. Sorry, just how it is.

Re the hire car / courtesy car scam - it's detailed in the other threads so i won't go over it again but resist attempts for the insurance co to put you over to a claims manager. Your contract is with them, keep reminding them. Tell them why you don't want to use a claims manager and be firm on it.

Read your policy carefully for what it says about courtesy cars; if it's in for repair the repair company should have courtesy cars (in response to some of the others in the other threads, when my Kia Sportage was in for repair I had a little Kia Picanto - you're not necessarily entitled to a similar one to yours as loan, you can argue that with them if you need specifics eg: auto, but it's generally not like for like). And in case of a write off, while you can potentially get one while a settlement is negotiated, you may not be entitled to it once they've paid out your money while you shop at your leisure. They've settled - you've got the money - tough.

Finally on write off values. Don't accept first value, gather all the evidence you can - on this you are entitled to be put back in what you had which for a second had car is hard exactly but..... get lots of evidence of similar cars for sale, repairs and maintenance you've done, new tyres, etc. to justify getting a better offer. But also bear in mind the longer that goes on, there is also an obligation to minimise their losses so dragging out a loan car for weeks on end to get another £50 on the settlement could in theory create issues. Just be sensible.

One thing not in your OP; why did the car in front stop? There might be an argument you hadn’t left enough space and so had to brake harder but it’s still the van behind’s issue to allow for even that

He was turning right. I'd left sufficient gap but I got shunted forward.

Keep a pain diary if nothing else. And try to get to a walk in centre if that headache stays.
I was hit hard, same as you roughly and it took months to get better plus some acupuncture combined with physio. Proper whiplash that i still have although crash landing from mtb jumps probably hasn't helped.
Do not take a hire car
Do not accept any offer whatsoever, check on here if you think they are pulling down your pants, because they usually are.

If your car is written off, it's often possible to buy it back from the insurer and repair it. My 10 year old Focus was written off with a nominal value of £1300, I bought it back for 23% of that repaired it to roadworthy (not pristine but it only had a year or two of life left) for less than £100. Once MoT'd they were happy to insure it again. So I ended up with £600 in my hand in exchange for a few minor dents, and I don't think I lost much when I sold it 2 years later.

As above, see a doctor, you don't know what the damage is and a physio might help recovery, plus you'll have the evidence for a perfectly valid whiplash claim.

No one was hurt but I feel a bit sore and stiff today. Didn’t sleep well last night. I’ve got a constant headache.

Then you have whiplash.

As I was traumatised but not injured I didn’t claim a phantom injury.

Phantom injuries don't do that.

I can’t do anything on a weekend. I’ve not broken anything. I’m just feeling very stiff. Worst part if a headache just above my neck. I’ll see how I feel Monday morning.

I don’t like wasting NHS time, especially when there’s strikes on etc.

You're injured, that's literally the exact point you should present. Get yourself to minor injuries.

He was turning right. I’d left sufficient gap but I got shunted forward.

Devil's advocate and not being accusatory - but if they wanted to the insurers could argue you didn't otherwise you'd have been shunted forward into the gap you'd left, not the car in front. Academic here, I think because you didn't damage the car in front so they aren't claiming and it won't matter but if the car in front had also been damaged and needed a claim, they'd have to claim off you because your car damaged theirs.

Your insurance co might then fight to pass that on to the van who actually caused it, but equally there's this 'knock for knock' attitude where with there being enough claims in a year, and enough insurance companies all claiming off each other, that rather than spend time and money arguing minutiae over these 'unclear' cases, the insurers just accept that they win some, lose some and it'll all balance out in the end.

Except it doesn't for you, because then you have a claim against you..... not saying it's right but it can be the reality.

The gap between the OP and the car in front is irrelevant if they were stationary, no fault there, they stopped. However the person in front claims on their insurance who then claim it back from the OPs insurance. OP claims on their insurance. Their insurance claim everything back from the van drivers insurance who ultimately foot the bill.

You might think. In general you'd be right, but sometimes to be expedient they don't, the punter loses, it's unfair but it's how it is.

I think this one is clear cut, as there is 'no damage' to the car in front.

Now consider there is damage, the car in front thinks there was only one hit but was there? and was it middle car hitting front car and back car hitting middle car simultaneously? Back car claims you hit the front car first and front driver is mistaken. What if there's 4 or 5 cars involved? How do you actually sort all that out?

Which then is where rather than spent ages trying to sort it out they *might* just accept the win some / lose some nature of it.

http://rallisolicitors.co.uk/concertina-collision/

Lots of 'consensus is' and 'generally speaking' comments in that solicitor's page.

https://nayyarssolicitors.co.uk/what-is-a-concertina-collision/#:~:text=In%20this%20situation%20if%20you,forward%20into%20the%20other%20vehicle.

'you should not be' and 'in most cases' in this one.

the punter loses, it’s unfair but it’s how it is.

This is actually my biggest worry. That and the fact my perfectly fine car is trashed and I might have to buy a new one and not get enough money to pay for it.

Then I'm also worried they might be able to fix it but I've now got a car that's been in an accident and its not worth as much if I sell it and might develope problems in the future like water leaks or electrical issues etc.

This is actually my biggest worry.

IANAE, but the fact you barely touched the car in front makes this pretty clear to me. I wouldn't sweat it, get yourself sorted and checked out is far more important.

That and the fact my perfectly fine car is trashed and I might have to buy a new one and not get enough money to pay for it.

Again - all you can do is fight hard for a fair valuation and do the best you can with what you get.

IANAE, but the fact you barely touched the car in front makes this pretty clear to me.

It's clear to anyone from the description that it's entirely the van drivers fault   so what's with the bloody essays questioning damascus' actions? He was stopped. Got hit. No fault.

I'm not blaming Damascus. I have pointed out that it's devil's advocate, but it's not an absolute given that the blame lands with the rearmost driver.

I also pointed out that this looks pretty clearcut.

They asked for advice, I'm passing on the reality of the situation and also the pitfalls to watch for. Then stumpjon came in and stated as fact something that is 'most often' and 'in general' which I corrected.

I know answers are a bit long but if you read them properly where have I questioned his actions, as opposed to pointing out the devil's advocate PoV?

I don’t like wasting NHS time, especially when there’s strikes on etc.

You'll "waste" a lot more time not starting treatment sooner, or by not getting the responsible parties insurer to pay for it.

At the very absolute least, Drs Monday.

Similar shunt here, I had headache and really sore shoulder. Everyone said claim for damages but I didn't. Just got a hire car and a decent offer for our car.

It was totally other cars fault, he admitted it. We are still paying higher premiums 4 years later.

I cycle the same route most days, if I d been cycling that day I d probably be dead now.

Just had a message from my insurance company to say if I have experienced any injuries to contact a solicitor firm (click on link here etc) and that my policy includes £100000 legal expenses which I must have taken out as an extra etc.

Any advice?

Advice: get thee to Minors first thing this morning for a check up and to ensure that there is an independent record of your minor injury, the weekend headache and the general aches and pains. Which is all a fairly clear indicator that your brain has been shoogled (that's a technical term) within its box.
Decide then whether you might need the services of their favourite personal injuries folk.
Just in case you're in any doubt, I do pre-hospital care professionally and if I had met you on the street I'd be giving the same advice. This is exactly what minor injuries units are set up for.

Hi.

Just a bit of a quick update and a quick vent 😂

Cars been written off. Engineer called me today offering me £3426. As soon as I said all equivalent replacements near me from a garage are £5000 he said he could up it by £150. This really annoyed me as its my insurance company that's low balling me. Just offer me the full amount straight away!

I asked him to find me a car for £3576,  he found just one thats done 4000 more miles and is £3695 and 50 miles away.

I asked if there was an appeal process as its going to cost me £1500 (if I buy locally) through no fault of my own to replace like for like and he basically said you can but we just use the standard industry accepted process so it will be the same.

I don't want to buy a vehicle from miles away in case anything is wrong with it, I want the garage to be at least fairly local to West Yorkshire.

They also don't care about any work done to the vehicle, I've just replaced the clutched, timing belt, water pump, front suspension, brakes and topped up the air con in last 2 years 12000 miles etc.

Rant over. Thanks

I’ve just replaced the clutched, timing belt, water pump, front suspension, brakes and topped up the air con in last 2 years 12000 miles etc.

Thats just maintenance I'm afraid, best to try and forget about those sunk costs.

Also, stop talking to the Engineer. The claim is with the insurance co to sort out, have a pop at your claims dept. You might not get anywhere, but its the correct way to do things

Also, stop talking to the Engineer

Isn't the engineer employed by my insurance company? When I phoned up to talk about it they said "we can't discuss valuation, you need to speak to the engineer"

I know I need to suck it up and get on with it but it's frustrating when the accident wasn't your fault.

He gave you a single example of a car 4000mls more.  The distance is tbh irrelevant.  50mls away is nothing.

Why dont you just counter with your own evidence.  Spend 10 mins on autotrader/ebay and screen print a few examples of cars for sale with similar mileage for more money.

Dont just twine about it, provide the evidence and make it clear what you would accept.

Its nothing to do with the "engineer".  Your contract is with the insurance company.  Email ( so you have a  trail) back to them stating you are rejecting the valuation and expect a more reasonable offer giving examples why you believe its under valued.  They always lowball first offer.

threaten them with the ombudsman if no movement.  Be polite but firm

Its their responsibility to put you back in the position you were before the collision

When I phoned up to talk about it they said “we can’t discuss valuation, you need to speak to the engineer”

The role of the 'engineer' in this context is to tell them what it would cost to repair, after the crash. The valuation is what it was worth before the crash so nothing to do with them. As above, your contract is with your insurer, not the engineer, and not the other party's insurer. Next time they ask for a premium payment, tell them to talk to your bank. They're just trying to see what they can get away with, don't let them.

I know I need to suck it up and get on with it.

No, you need to convince them you're not going to suck it up, and that you're going to insist on the terms in the policy you paid for. Since it wasn't your fault, they're going to claim off the other party so I don't know why they're trying to defraud you (yes, that's what they're doing).

Send your insurance as many auto trader adverts that you can showing the 'usual' asking price.

I asked if I could send evidence of cars to show £3500 isn't enough and they said we just go off the industry standard and accepted valuations, nothing you can do about it. They even said your offer could go down if someone else looks at it!

I'll give it a go, I'll send some screenshots and links. I've just received an email with the offer that says even if I accept and cash the cheque I can still appeal the amount so nothing to lose.

Thank you for the advice.

they said we just go off the industry standard and accepted valuations, nothing you can do about it.

Sounds like bullshit. Go back and read what your policy says about what happens if they write your car off. RTFM!

My advice is to call whoever the engineer you spoke to and ask him to put the statement  they said we just go off the industry standard and accepted valuations, nothing you can do about it. They even said your offer could go down if someone else looks at it! in writing by email.

When he asks why tell whoever it is you intend to report them to the Insurance claims ombudsman and highlight this to the insurance company they are representing.  Make sure you have his full details.

Asking to be given the opportunity to prove your required valuation is and has been an accepted method of agreeing values for decades.  His/her response to you is akin to saying "because i told you, so there".

I got a reply today from my email appeal that id linked to cars at a higher value.

It basically says we've reviewed it, not changed it and now we have closed it. If you don't agree here's a link to the ombudsmen, you have 6 months to appeal.

On their justification they have ignored auto traders £4000 valuation as its vastly different to the other 3 lower valuations. (this is an accepted practice and its in the blurb on the ombudsman guidance)

They have now issued me a cheque that will take 5 days to get to me. Company policy they don't issue bacs payments.

I've been with esure for over 10 years, I doubt I'll ever use them again, although I suspect most insurance companies are just the same.

I'm now looking for cars, every time I find one that looks OK I read the Google reviews for the garage and they are horrendous and full of horror stories. Oh the joys of buying 2nd hand cars

I read the Google reviews for the garage and they are horrendous and full of horror stories.

People will almost never post a neutral or positive feedback on Google for a garage. It'll only ever be as revenge for a dispute that didn't go their way. Be wary for sure,  but don't entirely discount a garage for a couple of poor reviews.

On their justification they have ignored auto traders £4000 valuation as its vastly different to the other 3 lower valuations.

What are the 4 valuations?