[Closed] Interesting Cold War type facts

The russians invasion plan was based on the threat of a missile attack. Their plan was to scare all the politicians into there bunkers around the UK. A team of sleeper agents would then put their special training as builders into effect. Concrete over the entrances and take over the country.

Anyone with any sense knows that Barratts homes where really a cover for the KGB.

Murray - Member
The TSR2 was cancelled because their weren't sufficient nuclear bombs to arm them - production was concentrated on Polaris warheads.

Polaris was made by the Lockheed Corporation of California for the United States Navy and we bought them in 1963. The TSR-2 was cancelled in 1965 mainly becasue it was massivly over budget.

I remember being told that there are several straight, flat sections of dual carriageway in the eastern part of England that could be used as runways for Jaguars/Tornados in a war scenario. Similarly, there are bridges that would provide the necessary protection from some air raids and satellite recon.

There were plans to put bomb shelters in the basements of all town halls, but there was a problem - some town halls had small basements and needed the space for storage.

So in some places, a big pile of bricks was provided, and if the siren sounded the staff were instructed to get bricklaying very, very quickly...

Oh, and another one I heard from someone who works at Faslane: The boat lift there is a gigantic and very expensive construction, able to lift an entire missile submarine out of the water. When you do the lift, it's important to keep it level. They tried all sorts of gyroscopic, laser-beam, computerised leveling systems, and gave up on them - the best solution was that a bloke paints a white cross on the floor, and the operator watches a weight hung from the ceiling.

when the M1 was built all the americans asked that all the bridges were at least 5m high so that they could get cruise missles under them.
Think that may be an urban legend, the standard night for an Unmarked Bridge in the UK is 16 feet 6 inches.

That doesn't mean the Yanks didn't ask though I suppose, just means there was no need for them to ask that's all

I doubt there was much chance of that. I have no proof they didn't ask for anything but the M1 was mostly completed in the late 60's and cruise missiles were based at Greenham Common and Molesworth in the 1980's. Nearest motorways to those are the M4 and M11 or A1.

I'm also pretty sure that no British roads or motorways were built to be used as emergency runways in the event of war. There seem to have been plenty of rumours that some were but most appear to have been easily debunked due to the number of bridges and permanent furniture.

I do recall reading somewhere that some German roads were built to be used as runways first in the late 1930's and then again during the cold war in both East and West Germany.

All wonderfully interesting, but as nothing when compared to [url= http://services.english-heritage.org.uk/ResearchReportsPdfs/010_2009WEB.pdf ]Orford Ness[/url].
Generally reckoned, by them that know, to be at least as significant as Bletchley Park to the winning of WW2 and was consistently so throughout the Cold War and also as far back as WW1, yet completely obscure, to most, to this day.

The book about its history by Paddy Heazell is well worth a read. Goes right up to developing a counter to the Exocets during the Falklands War.

The Soviets operated a system called the "Dead Hand".

Worried about their command and control leadership being killed in a first strike the Soviets developed an automated system for retaliating to a nuclear strike even if the people who normally made the decision were dead.

If the Dead Hand system detected a nuclear detonation on Soviet territory it would automatically respond by launching missiles at pre programmed targets.

It was Mutaully Assured Destruction taken to its logical conclusion - we'll still kill you even if we are all dead

It was Mutaully Assured Destruction taken to its logical conclusion - we'll still kill you even if we are all dead

Even though thankfully it never did (nor hopefully ever will) come to this, I still find this very disturbing

BigEaredBiker - Member

when the M1 was built all the americans asked that all the bridges were at least 5m high so that they could get cruise missles under them.
Think that may be an urban legend, the standard night for an Unmarked Bridge in the UK is 16 feet 6 inches.

That doesn't mean the Yanks didn't ask though I suppose, just means there was no need for them to ask that's all

I doubt there was much chance of that. I have no proof they didn't ask for anything but the M1 was mostly completed in the late 60's and cruise missiles were based at Greenham Common and Molesworth in the 1980's. Nearest motorways to those are the M4 and M11 or A1.

I'm also pretty sure that no British roads or motorways were built to be used as emergency runways in the event of war. There seem to have been plenty of rumours that some were but most appear to have been easily debunked due to the number of bridges and permanent furniture.

I do recall reading somewhere that some German roads were built to be used as runways first in the late 1930's and then again during the cold war in both East and West Germany.

Concur with your time line.

The RAF did do some Jaguar landings on motorways.

Oops!

Some Scandinavian countries closer to Russia made sure they could operate aircraft from roads- Sweden has some reinforced roads I think.

Something in the news a couple of months ago too about Korea or Taiwan practicing landing F-16s on the road.

EDIT here: [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13048131 ]F16 on the road[/url]
"Various sections of the island's motorways are designed to be used as runways at short notice."

I think I read somewhere that it makes more sense to be able to do this if you are very close to the likely threat so wouldn't get much warning before the bombers appear overhead.

Taiwan defo has dual purpose roads/landing strips and has had for many years. Also dual purpose civilian/military airports.

For the cycling link.........

Chicksands Woods had an elephant cage during the Cold War

8)

The Jag did some test landings on the m55 before it opened.

Here in Switzerland the cold war never ended. Most buildings have built-in nuclear bunkers (we keep paper files and old PCs in ours) or are sufficiently close to communal bunkers.
There are regular tests of the nuclear alarm signal too.

If the "balloon" ever does go up, what's left of Europe will be fine for cigarettes, chocolate and independent sport associations.. 🙂

we keep paper files and old PCs in ours

The RAF did do some Jaguar landings on motorways.

Interesting as that's different to what I've always been told (not that I am special or an expert on these matters)...

A bit more digging (and mostly wiki stuff) and I think what happened is the Jaguar was tested on the M55 when the road was being built. If it was from Warton (as wiki says) it might not even have been in RAF service as that is a BAE aerodrome not a military/RAF base. Therefore this wasn't to test the M55 for suitability as an emergency runway but rather test the Jaguars ability to be used on roads designated to be used as airstrips. Jaguars may well have ended up doing this if the cold war turned hot - especially in West Germany where some roads had been designed with this in mind.

This makes a lot more sense and ties in with what I have previously heard. It also helps explain the stories that British motorways were designed to be emergency airstrips - the best stories always have a grain of truth to them.

Belarus has a few roads which can also be used as airstrips.

Polaris was made by the Lockheed Corporation of California for the United States Navy and we bought them in 1963

We bought the missile system, but designed & manufactured our own warheads. The Chevaline modification was a UK project, too.

Andy

My father recently mentioned that in the late 80/early 90's he was informed that he had been assigned a seat in the north eastern control bunker (near flambrough?) in the event of nuclear war. He wasn't military but had skills deemed necessary for dealing with the aftermath

He had to keep it secret though as there wouldn't be space for his wife or kids. I imagine that would be a tough decision to make...

He had to keep it secret though as there wouldn't be space for his wife or kids. I imagine that would be a tough decision to make...

I was a bit of a prat as a teen so I'm sure there were many an occasion the old man hoped that Reagan might have a 'moment' so he could get a few hours peace 😀

On the subject of motorways/landing strips... Surely that's just a case of finding a big straight bit with no street furniture? Seems like you could easily land a plane on most of the M8- no street lights, few bridges, etc. Narrower than a runway though.

As for reinforcement, take a Tornado, the absolute maximum takeoff weight is 28000kg, so lighter than a big truck- though on less contact points of course and you don't normally have to land a truck. Then again you're not going to land thousands of planes on a road every day.

So, feasability wise it seems simple?

Yeah - the Swedes had some roads assigned as "hot" airfields. I remember driving through bits of dense forest and you'd suddenly come to a straight bit of road where the trees had been cut right back on both sides. I'm pretty sure some of them had dispersal areas in the forests too. These roads weren't motorway width. They were that strange "lane and a half" thing where slower traffic was supposed to pull over onto the half hard shoulder to let faster traffic through. The sort of thing that works in Scandinavia but would cause frustration and heartache over here 🙂

Not entirely or even a wee bit sure about the factual integrity of this but, the base at Macrihanish may have been used as a base for long range spy planes at the height of the cold war. It boasted one of the longest runways in Europe I think.

Even more intriguing, well for me anyway is that the mythical Aurora had been spotted in the area around that time.

I used to change the batteries on the out of band signalling systems for the alarms in my local area when I was a field engineer in the 80's. Had a tour of the nuclear bunkers under Manchester City Centre in the early 90's just after the last trunk network equipment had been decommissioned in there, but all the rest areas were as they were from the height of the cold war, miles n miles of tunnels, artesian wells, multiple generators etc..

Someone mention TSR2 it's bloody huge but with a tiny wingspan.

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loving this thread.
My dad always said that the fox and grapes pub on the A64 near leeds/york was part of the nuclear network, either for coms or near a bunker. Never believed him as a kid, but the location is perfect for something!

Given the, ahem, resilience to attack, that was built in to Millgarth police station that may be a possibility.

I seem to recall the post office/telecom building on the A61 has a bunker, along with the UKWMO group HQ by LB Airport - I also seem to remember that war plan UK listed a rather large home office store of riot equipment (shields, helmets, CS gas etc) being stored up at the airport too.

Lotta civ defence bunkers were under exchanges, can remember refitting one in the early 80's with a brand new Strowger exchange, all electro-mechanical stuff so more likely to survive an EMP. It's all now toilets for a bar. Now this place is even more interesting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/northeastwales/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8077000/8077550.stm

Massive chemical weapons place and did some research on nuclear weapons.

The Golden Rule, pub in Dagnall Buckinghamshire had an ominous grey box on the wall with a speaker.The landlord showed me the accompanying information papers detailing what the communications would be, at a given number of minutes before the expected strike, in the event of a nuclear attack.

It was very creepy indeed.

There was a field of ariels a mile or two up the road, some with exceptionally long dipoles, witha designation as an RAF base. A small block house on the surface with no windows was the only building.

And worst of all mobile phones lost all signal withint about a mile of the place.

I used to be right into planes and stuff in my early teens during the mid 80s..
I remember reading a rather long article about the Harriers.. If it all kicked off but stayed conventional it was basically going to be a giant tank battle in central Europe. The Harrier was to be utilised in a close support role operating in small units of two or three planes dispersed out to forrest clearings, autobahn underpasses and the like to escape detection and aid survival rates.. They also planned on using them in the UK should the Ruskis manage to invade us in order to fight a campaign of resistance.. I seem to recall them operating from large supermarkets that had had the fascias removed so they could take off and land in the car parks but hide from reconnaissance within the building itself..
Scary stuff but interesting!

I think I read that same article. And, hmm, I think it was in Warlord

Operation Skyshield- Vulcans get through US NORAD defences to bomb New York.

I worked on a hospital refit where they had fully removable walls so they could create super wards for all the injured in the event of a nearby (ish) nuclear strike. When I asked if they had a bunker I was met with a wall of silence.

I also have a friend who's father is (was) on the list of aftermath residents, who have important skills to rebuild society after the Armageddon. As mentioned previously his family where also not included.

I hope they have kept or do keep a few of these things secret - did anyone see the china day celebrations / big nuke parade a couple of years ago...

Not hardware but I've always found number stations interesting:

[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station [/url]

My mate who's now in his 60's started of by working for Radio 1 in the late 60's/early 70's with John Peel, Annie Nightingale etc, worked his way up to be principle sound engineer for Radio 3 (his true love is classical, especially his recordings of the Berlin Philharmonic playing Mahler 2nd symphony - Resurrection at the Albert Hall) and one of his jobs in the late 70's/80s at the height of the cold war was to go round all the secret transmitting room/posts in London and check them periodically, whether they be behind seemingly normal looking working fireplaces or false backed bookcases, hidden in cellars etc.

He signed the official secrets act so he won't tell me where they are and what houses they were in, no matter how stoned he gets.

Northwind- I seem to remember a lot of camo netting... Hmmm.
(runs off to google!)
As sad as it is I was brought up on a diet of cold war spy stories, Tom Clancy and others.
It was a horrible time but I loved the weapons, machines and ships..
Actually, having googled warlord it was something more grown up.. Airplane magazine poss?

Found this but doesn't go into too much details-
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2007/July%202007/0707west.aspx
More alludes to the harrier's deployment rather than giving details.
I know Clancy did a book about this type of conflict but anyone else know of anything similar?

That Fylingdales place is a visual feast! Mrs Removed and I had a biking holiday based nearby a few years ago. It's just so awesome, in the original sense of the word.

One of our routes took us along the perimeter fence. I rode ahead, jumped off the bike and pulled out my ancient Nikon FM film camera to get a photo of my wife cycling past the monolith. Within a very few seconds, two landrovers rushed out, the occupants jumped out and trained binos on us.

A few weeks later, there was a documentary on BBC which was basically a guided tour of the place, inside and out, with lengthy explanations of how it all works. Made me wonder why they were so twitchy!

I seem to remember reading that for a lot of the cold war they didn't think about/hadn't thought of the idea of nuclear winter.

The point being that both sides thought nuclear war was potentially winnable.

LOL!

Nowadays the thought is even if India and ****stan had a limited nuclear exchange we'd all be ****ed!

Someone mention TSR2 it's bloody huge but with a tiny wingspan.

Small wings = high wing loading = smoother ride at 600kts & 100ft.

Andy

We don't live that far from Dagnall and there's a heck of a lot of mini golfballs around us (sort of small Fylingdales things) that seem disused but no-one seems to know what they are. I've never liked riding past them (visions of James Bond-like death rays being zapped at me from them etc etc).

Nowadays the thought is even if India and ****stan had a limited nuclear exchange we'd all be ****!

I think current thinking is that the idea of a nuclear winter is wrong - the planet is more resilient than that. And we've already set off loads of nukes...

[i]Lotta civ defence bunkers were under exchanges, can remember refitting one in the early 80's with a brand new Strowger exchange, all electro-mechanical stuff so more likely to survive an EMP. It's all now toilets for a bar.[/i]

Aye, we went down some of the bunkers in Manchester in the mid 90's. The Strowger stuff was all there then. Of course, it'd all been ripped out above ground.

I live in Germany and my house - along with many others in the area - was designed to be used as emergency medical facilities in the event of the Cold war going hot. We have a buzzer system that still works, a nurses sink installed downstairs and extra wide stairs that we assume are to allow stretchers to be moved around.