[Closed] I'm disgusted by this: Pensioner battered to death by burglars

We are lucky that there's no such thing as society or we'd be blaming that too.

Careful what you wish for
G4s are already bidding to take over some patrolling of police areas
Now if that happened, it would be scary

Death penelty bad .
Police largely good occasionaly bad rarely evil.
European court very good but often deliberately and dishonestly reported.
Granny/Granada farmers truely evil
Murders often evil sometimes tragically sad.
G4s really really bad .

Ben
British police are well regarded, and known as some of the best police in the world.
Individuals do make mistakes, they are human after all.
Some police officers are plain dishonest, they are after all only human, and there are dishonest people in all jobs, and after all policing is a job.
I've been a police officer for 25 years in a busy inner city division, I can honestly and proudly say, I've never bullied anyone, made false statements, lied, lost paperwork on purpose, or shot anyone in the head.
What I have tried to do over these years is be compassionate, protect people's property and be as fair as I can to offenders, but at the end of the day offenders are called offenders for a reason, and they are breaking the law, a police officers job is to uphold the law of the land .
I am used to be slagged off, spat at, etc etc, but all this is worth it when I get a thank you from a victim I've helped.
So before slagging ALL police officers off Ben, have a think what you are saying, you may be offending an honest hard working police officer like myself, and you wouldn't want to do that, would you.!

What's the ratio of innocent to guilty executions?

That probably needs a graph.

I wonder what the acceptable threshold is for innocent people being executed instead of guilty ones.

So before slagging ALL police officers off Ben, have a think what you are saying, you may be offending an honest hard working police officer like myself, and you wouldn't want to do that, would you.!

Hmmm, perhaps it's time that all those honest hardworking officers started to clear out the wrong uns, then your reputation wouldn't be quite so muddied.

@piemonster - I think 1 person put to death by mistake or due to a miscarriage of justice is one too many and given the miscarriages of justice that have taken place over the years in this country whereby those convicted would likely have received a noose round the neck I'd say its a very good job we do not have capital punishment.

Cheers

Danny B

Hmmm, perhaps it's time that all those honest hardworking officers started to clear out the wrong uns, then your reputation wouldn't be quite so muddied.

Yup, exactly - and it happens too often and there's too much of a coverup when it does happen for the "occasional rotten egg" theory to hold much water.

I do feel sorry for the majority of police officers who do do a tough job in difficult circumstances - but when we get to the situation that so many people distrust the police and their motives, you have to ask what's gone wrong.

so, the deterrent for criminals would be a death sentence, which would somehow or other reduce crime? how come countries with the death penalty still have a significant crime rate then? and what is the death sentence deterring innocent people from, who may or may not get wrongly accused? are we seriously saying that miscarriages of justice never happen?
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miscarriage_of_justice_cases#United_Kingdom ]here is a handy list[/url], i'm sure there is more.
the death penalty is a ridiculous idea, what's needed is a justice system that is open and properly accessible to all, a police force that is free from corruption, and a prison system that recognises the need for rehabilitating people, and a society that values all people equally. no? ok then, i'm buying an island, and stay the **** off my land!

They might be innocent of the current crime. But I'm sure they will have got off with plenty in the past, so I reckon its karma time

Woody,
You are right, and I think normal people who don't come into contact with these people daily can't grasp how utterly despicable they are.they have in the most part been brought up to lie steal and cheat their way through life.
Most of them have no moral code at all, they have never been taught right from wrong, and this is hard to grasp if you have not witnessed it.
It is demoralising to be around these people all the time, its draining, nothing you say to them sparks any kind of remorse, and that's hard to deal with.i think that may be the reason so many cops get disillusioned with life's in general, they forget that the people we deal with day in day out are a tiny minority.
The secret is to remember that we(the police) are there to protect the vast majority of people, from the tiny minority.

The death penalty would reduce crime , if you take a convicted murderer, he will have committed numerous crimes during his life.He will continue to commit crimes when released from prison.
If we killed him, he would not commit any more crimes,therefore crime has been reduced.
Now I know all the social implications, problems of miscarriages of justice etc etc etc, but at the end of the day ending a criminals life will reduce his offending behaviour.
Ben, I spent 3 days in court in may giving evidence against one of my collegues, after an assault in a kebab shop.he was found not guilty by magistrates.No cover up, no lies, found not guilty.care to comment

easygirl - why stop at murderers?

Here's my list
Murder
Any sexual offences against children

Most of them have no moral code at all...nothing you say to them sparks any kind of remorse

So do you think capital punishment would instill a sense of right and wrong or do you see it as a convenient way of permanently removing them from society?

Smacks a bit of putting them down as you would a dangerous animal.

Permanently removing them from society 😕

or shot anyone in the head.

Now are you really sure about this?

but at the end of the day ending a criminals life will reduce his offending behaviour.

By what percentage and have you got any stats to back this up? 😉

@easygirl - how to you ensure, 100% in every case, that the person is guilty?..

And bear in mind the good 'ol US has a very high percentage of poor black and hispanic people on death row who can't afford good lawyers and very very few white middle class people who can - miscarriages of justice happen all the time there...

Cheers

Danny B

problems of miscarriages of justice etc etc etc

You mean state murdering of innocent people ?

You mean state murdering of innocent people ?

We, in the Labour Party, like to call it 'tidying up loose ends' like Dr Kelly.....

if you take a convicted murderer, he will have committed numerous crimes during his life.He will continue to commit crimes when released from prison.
If we killed him, he would not commit any more crimes,therefore crime has been reduced.

Orrrrrrrr, we could go further. If we killed everyone there would be no more crime, ever! Perfect world!

Ssssssinnnneerr, the sentence is death

I'm still looking for a peer reviewed paper with a statistical breakdown of crimes committed before and after death. I'd hate to jump to the wrong conclusion based on poor quality stats.....

Make sure you find some graphs

[img] [/img]

[quote=easygirl ]Here's my list
Murder
Any sexual offences against children
Have I understood this right then? Anyone accused of these crimes (whether actually guilty or not) should be put down as they are a thoroughly bad egg, having been involved in lots of other undetected crimes over the years.

I have dug out some home office statistics from 2011
It studied criminals offending behaviour over a 10 year period
The study was carried out by a respected team of academics and they found that 100% of criminals who were killed, stopped committing crime after their death.
Not one single dead criminal re offended
Now if those stats are not convincing, you are just trolling

Scotroutes
Now I never said accused, that would be plain silly
Anyone found guilty by a jury 😀

[quote=easygirl ]
Scotroutes
Now I never said accused, that would be plain silly
Anyone found guilty by a jury So if they are [i]found[/i] guilty, [i]even if that was subsequently found to be in error[/i] then it doesn't matter as only the baddies are ever accused of murder or sexual offences against kids?

Wow. That's really dry... I'm gonna call... Not serious.*

*but I'm really not sure, easygirl has played a very good game here, seemingly very serious to begin with, but that smiley makes me think, actually, having us on...

[quote=unklehomered ]Wow. That's really dry... I'm gonna call... Not serious.*
*but I'm really not sure, easygirl has played a very good game here, seemingly very serious to begin with, but that smiley makes me thing, actually, having us on...
Ah. The Edinburgh Defence?

So, easygirl, when the police, cps and
Judge get it wrong, and they will. Are you volunteering to tell the family of a completely innocent person, "sorry about that, got it wrong, sorry we killed your loved one"?

If we killed him, he would not commit any more crimes,therefore crime has been reduced

Not one single dead criminal re offended

Not really sure whether to thank you for being a copper or be concerned that you have become jaded by all the "scum" you have had to deal with to the extent you no longer have any compassion

FWIW hindley and Brady committed their crimes whilst the death penalty existed but were charged after it was repealed.

It did not deterred them and neither has reoffended currently Brady is campaigning to end his life [ as he has done for a number of years] so the sky tv and holiday camp atmosphere of prison [ trademark Daily Mail } may not be all it is cracked up to be

Ah. The Edinburgh Defence?

I DON'T KNOW!!! I've been thinking about it too much know, i'm doubting everything. I am at this moment the very embodiment of indecision, it could the knowing double bluff, is she trolling the liberals or hardcores? At this moment only easygirl knows for sure. I doff my cap... At this point I can only hope to learn...

"Anyone found guilty by a jury "
Barry George
judith ward
the birmingham six
the guilford 4
That's 12 innocent people killed by the state in easygirl's world before i even resort to google. The problem is calling for the death penelty sounds good and makes those touched by a killing feel as if their grief is acknowledged but it is a useless deterent a barbaric punishment no comfort to the family of the victim, leads to the aquital of the guilty and mistakes cannot be rectified . It is also inexperienced nonsence to suggest that those accused of murder have committed loads of other crimes before , murder like rape is one of those crimes where people of no previous convictions are as likely to end up in the dock as hardened offenders.

if we kill everyone there will be no crime

OI, stop nicking my idea!!!*

*patent pending.

@easygirl - I have also run through a few reports, medical journals, physics papers etc and I can honestly say that I haven't found one case where an innocent person who has been wrongly executed being successfully resurrected either.

I have however (and admittedly the cases are few compared to the number of convictions handed out each year) found evidence of *some* people who were convicted of one offence not re-offending (and the the fact that a high % do is as much to do with the criminal justice system than anything else but that's opening a whole new can of gassed worms...).

Cheers

Danny B

@easygirl - I have also run through a few reports, medical journals, physics papers etc and I can honestly say that I haven't found one case where an innocent person who has been wrongly executed being successfully resurrected either.

Did you check the Bible? Some funny business went on in there.

I haven't found one case where an innocent person who has been wrongly executed being successfully resurrected either

It's happened on here after a wrongful conviction : Junkyard - lazarus

Either Easygirl is trolling - ban hammer please mods - or, if she really is a copper, she should be removed from her post immediately.

She's the kind of Daily Mail person that makes this country uncivilised.

Thank goodness some on here talk sense.

So the problem is: evidence levels.
So if we had 100% evidence that someone committed murder, would that justify the death penalty?

Barry George signed a statement that he did do it.
That worries me that even with an admission of guilt, we/law can still make a mistake.

Bad Police give the rest a bad a name. I don't know any upstanding people who trust them. I'm just glad there are police like easygirl who go above and beyond.

We need strict punishment and longer sentences if only to protect the public. We should start with schools and target unruly students-educate/punish/help them before they grow up to be criminals.

That old pensioner could be any one of us.
They targeted him. They didn't need to kill him.

Not one single dead criminal re offended

I'd still need to see some graphs and a pie chart to be convinced. It all seems just too simple to be true....

Plus there's that bloke Jesus who got done for hassling Atheists with some religious mumbo jumbo after he's been supposedly crucified. If that's not proof that even killing isn't good enough for some people, I don't know what is. I suspect he was claiming job seekers allowance as well and not even looking for a job 24/7!

Listen folks,
I know that there will never be a death penalty in the u.k, and agree that the big problem with it are unsafe convictions.
BUT in all seriousness, the people who murder, assault, rape people whilst robbing them, predatory paedophiles, who target children as young as 2, and do unspeakable sexual acts to them, need keeping in prison for ever.
Sorry for the previous posts, most of it was sincere, but some opinions on here are so skewed that I despair .

Relax easygirl, many do see your point.

Nobody ever agrees on stw!

But it was good to see both sides of the argument.

We all agree that the death penalty is not the answer due to innocent being wrongly convicted.

But prison is not just punishment or reforming values.

It's about protecting the innocent from the scum that easygirl mentioned.

Now where to get the money to build more prisons...

if she really is a copper

He isn't even a girl 😐

Although quite possibly easy - I wouldn't know.

We don't need more prisons - crime has declined by 50% since 1995.

We've never been safer, despite what the tabloids want you to believe.