Wrong
a) rules are to be abided by as they are what keep us safe. If we all use the rules, we all know what others are doing. Just because some "clever" sod thinks he knows better doesn't make it better for all.
b) So going through on that few seconds makes life better for all does it? Nope. Just for one selfish idiot. So what if they take a few seconds more to get to work. Start earlier.
c) Flashing ambers at 2am sound a good idea but how do you know that its safe and there isn't some dimwit coming though?
c) Flashing ambers at 2am sound a good idea but how do you know that its safe and there isn't some dimwit coming though?
The same way you'd deal with any unmarked junction I'd have thought. Slow down, exercise caution and use your eyes.
[quote=mattsccm ]b) So going through on that few seconds makes life better for all does it? Nope. Just for one selfish idiot. So what if they take a few seconds more to get to work. Start earlier.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=junction+capacity
I'm not necessarily approving, just pointing out that in exactly the same way as me using the right lane in my example above it improves things for everybody behind them waiting to use the junction.
c) Flashing ambers at 2am sound a good idea but how do you know that its safe and there isn't some dimwit coming though?
This speaks volumes about your attitude to everyone else on the road 🙄
Why is the other person "some dimwit coming through" ?
You are [b]both[/b] on flashing amber, so you both have the same priority as each other.
A) rules, whilst often well meaning, can just be wrong. Laws are ever changing and evolving. I'm not (exactly) advocating deliberate law breaking, but I'm sure as hell not going to lose sleep over this one.
B)Ever heard of time and motion? Those 'few seconds add up considerably, when multiplied by the volume of traffic on the road. A damn sight less marginal a gain than xtr vs xt vs slx I'd imagine.
C) Already roundly addressed. Use your bloody eyes.
rules, whilst often well meaning, can just be wrong. Laws are ever changing and evolving
Yes, but you cannot simply disregard them whenever you feel like it. Nor can you rely on common sense. Not only is common sense in short supply but there will rarely be a consensus on it and people are not usually in possession of the facts.
What you are advocating is a free-for-all which is clearly ridiculous.
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men."
Sadly it is the fools who tend to think that the rules are optional.
I'm certainly not advocating a free for all 😆 that's a fair logic jump there. (Although, people would certainly pay a lot more attention to the road if there was a free for all situation 😉 )What you are advocating is a free-for-all which is clearly ridiculous.
Rules actually [i]are[/i] optional. You can choose to live within them, or not. It's the awareness that the decision has consequences that separates the fools from the wise.Sadly it is the fools who tend to think that the rules are optional.
Driving in a land where trafic lights aren't as well respected in the UK I reckon trafic moves slower, V8ninety.
You have a few rogues that mean everybody has to be really careful at lights. Like many people I slow down for green lights and crawl through when people might have been drinking. I never race away at green, I proceed with caution as there might still be idiots crossing. Overall I'd say that trafic through lights is more fluid in the UK where people don't have to be as cautious.
Madame used to nag me about slowing down (I'm colour blind and sometimes slow down till I can see if it's the top (stop) or bottom light that's illuminated) but very early one Sunday morning I slowed to about 10kmh through some green lights and a car shot across in front of us. She now never says anything other than "red" or "green"..
Ever heard of time and motion? Those 'few seconds add up considerably, when multiplied by the volume of traffic on the road. .
So taking your argument a step further: why bother obeying speed limits, or stopping at stop signs, pedestrian crossings and level crossings? And surely you can always make good progress on a busy motorway by driving along the hard shoulder or perhaps using the pavement in towns?
There are laws against this of course, but we've established that any law which slows you down must be wrong 😉
aha, yes you're right, except that's not my argument and nor would I suggest they were. I was fairly specific and limited in my OP for a reason, you know. 😉So taking your argument a step further: why bother obeying speed limits, or stopping at stop signs, pedestrian crossings and level crossings? And surely you can always make good progress on a busy motorway by driving along the hard shoulder or perhaps using the pavement in towns?
The 'slippery slope' argument is, well, a slippery slope to daily mail style hysteria...
See you say that, but one day it is ignoring traffic lights and the next day you're mowing down baby robins and children's faces on pedestrian crossings. 😉
Why do some traffic lights make you wait for pedestrians to cross even when there are no pedestrians to press the buttons?
I've lost track of the number of times I've got to a crossing with a stream of cars coming past, pressed the button and the traffic has vanished, so I can either stand there like a lemon waiting for either the light to change or traffic arrive and then has to stop, or I just stroll across while the road is empty, then accept that traffic has to stop when the light changes and I've buggered off, indifferent to the angst of all those poor car drivers forced to sit there fuming at a red light and a pedestrian crossing devoid of pedestrians.
Frankly, I can't even be bothered looking for the rats ass I couldn't give for how pissed off you must be, wasting at least a minute of your precious time waiting for a jackass like me who wasn't prepared to wait for the light to change while the road was completely empty.
😉
I sometimes press the buttons at pedestrian crossings when I have no intention of crossing. I'm just cerazee 😉
I'm getting a soft C from the way you've chosen to spell that - sounds like some weird cocktail made with that blue shit.
Try it with a K
Ever heard of time and motion?
Ever heard of an area of study called town planning? You can take degrees in it. I knew a guy who did one. It was not easy, and he was not stupid.
Every heard of the Dunning Kruger effect? You think something's simple when you have no idea it's not. Or in other words, you think you're cleverer than someone else when you have no understanding of what they do.
For example - why do some traffic lights show pedestrian green men when no-one's pressed the button? I'm willing to bet that that particular road is on red anyway because of traffic flowing elsewhere in the junction, so they may as well put the green man on regardless.
waiting for a jackass like me who wasn't prepared to wait for the light to change while the road was completely empty.
You *think* it's completely empty. But our eyes sometimes deceive us, don't they? There are accidents all the time because people *think* it's ok to go, when it's not.
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men."
Sadly it is the fools who tend to think that the rules are optional.
Rules are only rules if you agree to follow them. Beyond that they're just words.
(Not that I'm saying that's even remotely appropriate in 'rules of the road' but rather, some need to be questioned / challenged / ignored. Many rules are "we've always done it this way" which is the worst reason to do anything.)
Every heard of the Dunning Kruger effect? You think something's simple when you have no idea it's not. Or in other words, you think you're cleverer than someone else when you have no understanding of what they do.
Have you? Cos that's completely not what it is.
DK states that people who are incompetent lack the ability to comprehend that they're incompetent. It's similar I grant you, but it's relating to self-perception rather than external perception.
Aye, and whilst I don't allude to any competence at town planning or traffic flow management, I'm very competent at driving through adversely set traffic lights. I've got a certificate and everything! 😉DK states that people who are incompetent lack the ability to comprehend that they're incompetent. It's similar I grant you, but it's relating to self-perception rather than external perception.
I was going to say something about Liverpool drivers being the worst in the UK for sailing through red lights but:
I understand some of the frustration given the amount that leave massive gaps as the traffic sets off only for the light sensors in the road seeing no traffic so turning red for that lane.
sat behind 6 buses and only 2 go through as bus No 3 just sits there and suddenly realises the other 2 have gone but its to late the lights are red (drivers just bloody pay attention)
I'm getting a soft C from the way you've chosen to spell that - sounds like some weird cocktail made with that blue shit.Try it with a K
Kerazee. Yep, you're right 🙂
[quote=molgrips ]
waiting for a jackass like me who wasn't prepared to wait for the light to change while the road was completely empty.
You *think* it's completely empty. But our eyes sometimes deceive us, don't they? There are accidents all the time because people *think* it's ok to go, when it's not.
Are you suggesting here that it's irresponsible to cross any road if you don't have a set of pedestrian lights telling you it's OK to do so?
My bugbear with ped crossing lights is the way they are tacked on to light sequences designed for vehicles, with no priority at all being given to the pedestrians, they're just allowed to cross when it doesn't inconvenience the cars at all. Hence with my most local set of traffic lights with ped crossings tacked on, you can get stuck on the island in the middle of the road waiting another 2 minutes for the crossing phase for the second half (giving a possible total wait to cross of almost 4 minutes, compared to the maximum wait of under 2 minutes for a car).
Have you? Cos that's completely not what it is.Every heard of the Dunning Kruger effect?
This made me chuckle,
Why do some traffic lights make you wait for pedestrians to cross even when there are no pedestrians to press the buttons?I've lost track of the number of times I've got to a crossing with a stream of cars coming past, pressed the button and the traffic has vanished, so I can either stand there like a lemon waiting for either the light to change or traffic arrive and then has to stop, or I just stroll across while the road is empty, then accept that traffic has to stop when the light changes and I've buggered off, indifferent to the angst of all those poor car drivers forced to sit there fuming at a red light and a pedestrian crossing devoid of pedestrians.
Frankly, I can't even be bothered looking for the rats ass I couldn't give for how pissed off you must be, wasting at least a minute of your precious time waiting for a jackass like me who wasn't prepared to wait for the light to change while the road was completely empty.
Sounds to me like you found that rats ass and banged it hard.
LOTS of junctions still have a big ol' delay when EVERYONE is on red/red-amber, IME.
The all red is usually at large intersections, sorry junctions! where it might take a while to clear a turn if you get caught in the middle or... because people run red lights so they add time to make it safer!
In France there's an all red period at every set of lights. It's calculated on:
A minimum of 10m/s to clear the junction but usually longer as they allow for trucks or bikes that are slower, or for people already in the juntion waiting for a left turn to clear. There's no time added for amber/red light jumpers.
It's all designed to work safely without unnecessarily holding people up. If you start amber gambling then sooner or later you're going to run into one of those sitations the careful calculations meant couldn't happen. You'll take out someone who waited for the red cross that tells them there's no more on-coming traffic, you'll take out a motorbike or electric car that's quick off the mark, a pedestrian who steps out the instant he sees the car light go red. Sonner or later you'll **** up and it'll be your fault.
Outside certain hours all lights should just be set to flashing amber (proceed with caution)
Quite common in towns on the continent.
...follow through...
Can end up being messy.
Flashing amber at night also common in the US, it means caution. Also flashing red - so traffic light controlled signals become four-way stops in the middle of the night. In that you have to stop, but can go immediately if there's nothing there, or you wait your turn if there are a few cars there. This is one of the few really good ideas they've had in terms of traffic management.
Turning left* on red also makes a lot of sense, particularly for bikes.
* (or right, whatever side traffic normally drives on)
Makes sense in some junctions. It's the default there (although not universal) because most junctions are basic crossroads that are well sighted. Here most aren't. Where its obviously ok though we tend to do it with filter lanes.
Also remember they have traffic lights where we'd have mini roundabouts or normal roundabouts, which serve that purpose.
