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I could comment on that DD, but I would most definitely make the swear filter explode.
I just sincerely hope that one day that subhuman scumbag gets what he's had coming to him for 27 years
I'm talking about his thoroughly deserved title, obviously...
I can't believe anyone set out to kill 96 peopleNo-one is suggesting that anyone did.
Not even I'm suggesting that, nor am I for one moment disputing
[b]that the state and in particular the South Yorkshire Police, as an institution and criminal enterprise, engaged in a conspiracy to cover up crimes[/b]
However, don't we all deserve to know how much of a role freemasonry played in facilitating such dark and manipulative acts?
And of course the bigger question, do similar levels of cover up continue in other areas to this day...
Large event planned Wednesday night, tommorrow in Liverpool, lime street on st Georges Plateu opposite Lime street station, 17.45 start, music, prayers etc.
http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/travel-updates/Pages/Hillsborough-Commemoration-Event.aspx
David Conn's article in the Guardian is the best summary of the whole incident. It's a long read, but probably gives the best narrative of what happened on the day.
Police Statement firmly blaming senior officers.
Thats not a Police Statement - its a statement by the trade union of police rank and file officers.
[quote=project ]Large event planned Wednesday night, tommorrow in Liverpool, lime street on st Georges Plateu opposite Lime street station, 17.45 start, music, prayers etc.
> http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/travel-updates/Pages/Hillsborough-Commemoration-Event.aspx
br />
See you there - might skip the prayer bit.
The Police Federation is a staff association not a trade union.
yes sorry - quite right - I was speaking colloquially.
I hope that today's verdict provides some relief and comfort to families and friends of those who died and were injured at Hillsborough.
A terrible day and a shameful episode.
To answer outofbreath's what coverup question there is a quantum leap in responsibility between today's verdict that police errors were causal factors in the disaster eg opening the gate, the commander accepting that he believed his job was controlling misbehaviour and having no consideration for crowd safety, and the Taylor reports finding that the police lost control of the crowd.
The cover up is clear from even the basics of ordering officers not to male notes in pocket books but on plain paper The plain paper accounts were amended before they went to the Taylor inquiry. The Hillsborough Independent Panel reported in 2012 that 164 statements had been altered. In 116 of these, criticisms of the police operation and senior officers’ lack of leadership were removed.
As well as the families and friends of those who died, I also feel sympathy for those fans who were in the tunnel - 27yrs of feeling guilt (however unfounded) must eat at your very soul.
The plain paper accounts were amended before they went to the Taylor inquiry. The Hillsborough Independent Panel reported in 2012 that 164 statements had been altered. In 116 of these, criticisms of the police operation and senior officers’ lack of leadership were removed.
Which of course ties in with my link on page 4:
Senior South Yorkshire police officers who were freemasons orchestrated a “masonic conspiracy” to shift the blame after the Hillsborough disaster in 1989, the inquests into the deaths of the 96 victims have been told.
[b]Groome also told the inquest that senior officers pressured junior officers to change their statements after the disaster, because they were “terrified” of criticism of the force’s command. He said he was “duped” into agreeing to the changes, because he believed if he did not, he would never be called to give evidence to Lord Justice Taylor’s official inquiry or to the first inquest, and his statement would be “magicked away, dumped in a box, never to see the light of day again”[/b].Groome said a colleague, PC Brookes – whose first name was not given in court – called the inquiry team at West Midlands police to complain it was “a masonic conspiracy”.
It is as much about clearing the names of the 96 deceased football fans if not more so and the name of Liverpudlians rather than anything else.
May they finally rest in peace.
God bless.
jhj, you're more concerned with exposing a Masonic conspiracy that you are with the momentous achievement of the HFSG. Their perseverance dwarves yours. I wonder sometimes if there is a thread topic which you wouldn't hijack to make us endure your rambling bollocks.
And with that, just **** off.
Which of course ties in with my link on page 4:
Everything ties in when you look at it from under a tinfoil hat. There's a time and a place for nutjob ramblings and this isn't it.
Well I'll be, clear evidence of a conspiracy and yet, as per, a wealth of negativity and denial
just **** off
about sums it up
clear evidence of a conspiracy
There is clear, well-documented evidence of a conspiracy (now proven to a tribunal) between police officers institutionalised and covering up for each other.
There is no such evidence of a conspiracy among masons, just one office whose mate Kevin told him about it in the canteen but Kev didn't think he could prove it.
There is clear, well-documented evidence of a conspiracy (now proven to a tribunal)
And in that same tribunal, describing the same course of events, with no fabrication or fantasy, a police officer mentioned involvement of the masons...
It doesn't in any way discredit the massive time and effort put in by the victims families, or bring into question the credibility of other accounts, however, it provides some insight into a further element of the cover up.
One officer, about whom the coroner said to the jury: “I should say this quite clearly to you: we have no other evidence than this rumour, said to emanate from the [South Yorkshire police] area office. It amounts to no more than what the witness described as ‘scuttlebutt’.’”
The witness described as 'scuttlebutt'. The one witness who made any mention of the Masons - probably you could look up how many witnesses have spoken about the events of the day (I bet it's not a small number) and the people involved, and the [b]one[/b] witness who mentioned the Masons said that what he heard was rumour.
*Slow hand clap*
You're messed up... you're happy to imply I'm being distasteful, then you sink to new lows~ I hope you're proud of yourself.
Anyone would think everyone was scared to talk about the influence of the masons or something...
Why would that be?
I heard the word "mason".It made me [s]think[/s] masturbate.
then you sink to new lows
I know the bastard used indisputable facts and there were no pictures anywhere
Makes you think eh.
the trade union of police rank and file officers.
POSTED 2 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
It's also the organisation that sat on minutes of the meeting at which senior police officers spread "the truth" which got to the Prime Minister and then to The Sun...so they can do one
So the police lied, how did they get away with it? Because the Liverpool fans had a significant scumbag element in it that killed a load of people at Hysel so it wasn't a huge stretch to get folk to believe they did this too.
Far too much victimhood. It was ages ago, it was a mess, the police lied and the Liverpool fans cultivated an image for themselves as murdering hooligans. Now they're all saints? Gimme a break, RIP those who died, now lets move on.
Beer based obvious troll is obvious
You're messed up... you're happy to imply I'm being distasteful, then you sink to new lows~ I hope you're proud of yourself.Anyone would think everyone was scared to talk about the influence of the masons or something...
Why would that be?
I think misguided is more appropriate than distasteful but hey, if the cap fits. If you can show any Masonic influence in this instance, beyond one of the many hundreds of witnesses mentioning a rumour he heard, be my guest.
Do you have any idea how much it weakens your argument to end a post, not with a statement of fact, but with a leading question?
So the police lied, how did they get away with it?
Maybe you've not seen the news today, but they didn't.
Pondo, my bad, though you're being a bit of a douche in your own right, that was directed at DD.
I don't really expect anyone to give any shits about Freemasons, because for some reason, they're not in the news much...
If you can show any Masonic influence in this instance, beyond one of the many hundreds of witnesses mentioning a rumour he heard, be my guest.
Back atcha: If you can prove that Freemasons had no role in this Establishment Conspiracy which has taken 30 years to begin to unravel, be my guest...
Well I'll be... nice to know this avenue of inquiry is being investigated further:
[url= http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/26/hillsborough-tragedy-did-the-freemasons-influence-the-police-5842965/ ]
Hillsborough tragedy: Did the Freemasons influence the Police?[/url]
An investigation has been launched into whether the secretive Freemasons held too much sway over police decisions at the time of the Hillsborough disaster.The victims of the disaster were unlawfully killed, an inquest jury concluded.
The fresh inquests into the disaster heard Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield had been a Freemason since 1975. He was made a ‘worshipful master’ – head of his local lodge – in 1990, one year after the 1989 tragedy.
He was also promoted within South Yorkshire Police in the weeks before the disaster, but he told the inquest he did not know if his membership of the Freemasons had influenced this.
‘I would hope not,’ he said.
Jurors heard Duckenfield’s predecessor Brian Mole, who is now dead, was also a member of the same masonic lodge.
Families of the 96 Liverpool fans who died in the Hillsborough disaster declared that justice had finally been done as an inquest jury ruled the victims had been unlawfully killed in a tragedy caused by police blunders.
Lawyers acting for the families said the conclusions, at the end of the longest jury case in British legal history, had completely vindicated their tireless 27-year battle for the truth.
Now the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission) is looking into concerns from the victims’ families about police officers being members of the so-called ‘secret society’.
No doubt DD will be ecstatic...
Easy peasey - of the many hundred witnesses interviewed, the only suggestion of Masonic influence came from an unsubstantiated rumour of one, who himself described the suggestion as "scuttlebutt". For the third time, if you can show any Masonic influence in this instance, beyond one of the many hundreds of witnesses mentioning a rumour he heard, be my guest.
You should probably just google 'Hillsborough Freemasons', as it's an ongoing inquiry... there's even mention of an organised police 'black propaganda unit'
Well I'll be... nice to know this avenue of inquiry is being investigated further
Happy days - of course, regardless of outcome your mind won't be changed. The hint of that is given by you not quoting this snippet -
"However coroner Sir John Goldring warned the jury that there was ‘not a shred of evidence’ that this meeting actually took place, or that those named were all Freemasons."
You should probably just google 'Hillsborough Freemasons', as it's an ongoing inquiry
Well I'll have a look, but can you tell me know if any of the enquiry is based on anything more substantive than one of the many hundreds of witnesses mentioning a rumour he heard? First page of results suggests not.
Wonder if Sir John Goldring is a Freemason? 😉
Wonder if Sir John Goldring is a Freemason?
Of course you do, because that's easier than keeping an open mind. If he'd had more than one unsubstantiated rumour to quash (amongst the many hundreds of witness statments), you might have a point.
Quashing of rumours eh...
Are you a travelling man?
Not really. Again, if you can show any Masonic influence in this instance, beyond one of the many hundreds of witnesses mentioning a rumour he heard, be my guest.
I'll wait for the inquiry to take it's course, thankfully, it seems they're taking it seriously...
[url= http://www.****/news/article-3559607/Police-face-questions-influence-Freemasons-emerged-match-commander-boss-members.html ]
Police face questions over the influence of the Freemasons after it emerged match commander and his boss were both members [/url]
South Yorkshire Police today face questions over whether powerful 'secret society' the Freemasons held sway over the force at the time of Hillsborough.Families of victims say that officers who were Masons were promoted into powerful positions despite being ill-equipped, including match commander David Duckenfield.
Duckenfield told the fresh inquests he had been a Freemason since 1975 and became head of his local lodge - a worshipful master - the year after the 1989 disaster.
The match commander, 46 in 1989, was handed control of F Division, which included policing games at Hillsborough, just three weeks before the tragedy.
He was forced to admit at the inquests that he had no experience of policing football, did not know Hillsborough and 'wasn't the best man for the job'.
At the time there was fury among colleagues who believed it was his freemasons membership that was behind his promotion.
Well, it's taken a few asks but I'll take that as a no, then. Like I said, regardless of the outcome of the investigation, you're not going to change your mind.
there is a quantum leap in responsibility between today's verdict that police errors were causal factors in the disaster eg opening the gate
All fair points Crankboy, except the opening of the gates bit. The Police admitted they'd opened the gate the evening of the day of the tradgedy. Taylor's report included it.
Taylor must also have been well aware of the significance and unusual nature of police notes on plain paper. I'd be amazed if that wasn't commented on in the Taylor report, can someone confirm?
Actually the first police lie was that the fans forced the gate started by the man who ordered them opened himself , but that was not the point of my comment . You repeatedly ask what cover up the Taylor report found the police lost control of the fans? Well the simple truth is the police did not lose control of a wild mob of hooligans drunk and regardless of their actions who like lemmings rushed to crush each other . The police failed to follow plans they had in place to manage crowd movement they made decisions without thought or preparation that channelled an ordinary crowd into a fatal squeeze they failed to act to prevent that crush becoming worse , they elected to hold back the emergency services when they were needed and failed to recognise the magnitude of the event and treat it accordingly . Not a loss of control but a monumental cock up of criminal ineptitude , which as we know they then conspired to conceal .
Predictably? the Sun and The Times are the only papers to have no mention whatsoever of Hillsborough in contrast to it being the Headline on all the others