b r - Member
This post reminds me of a comment my Dad made a fair few years ago when looking at a restored 1930's BSA."I had one of those in the 50's, they were crap in their day and crap in my day; I'd hate to imagine how crap it feels now"...
What used to be called "grey porridge" bikes. It's often the duds that get left in the back of a shed to be resurrected as vintage classics whereas the good bikes got thrashed to death and went to the tip.
Don't in the slightest meet your criteria but these popped up on my pinterest. Always been partial to Honda CBs...
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Yamaha 450
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MZ's might be odd, but they're not crap, just different.
🙂
They were old designs made on some old tooling, ugly as sin, but most of the bits that mattered were fine.
And kept being fine for ages.
The gearboxes were a bit odd, but so are BMW's.
The switchgear is flaky, and all the rubber bits rot.
Really nice to ride if you like to potter, but handle well and would make a great budget tourer.
Avoid anything earlier than an ETZ250, it'll be premix fuel only and six volt.
They moved production to Turkey I think for the last few years but I've not seen one up close since they were new.
Very reliable for a 2 stroke and modern oil means they don't smoke.
Some bits are really nice, some look like they've been knocked up by a toddler.
Cheap and fun.
All the above comes with the caveat that they're really not for everyone.
If an Enfield appeals, find a nice one and you've saved a fortune.
A really sorted one for £600 would be a nice thing to own, but I'd want something special or fresh from the crate for a grand.
As Rusty spanner said a they are no crap. Reliability wise they are bombproof and if you get an ETZ 250 you can't go wrong. I can't comment on the later 251 variants.
Switch gear is basic but they are so simple and cheap to replace. You could just loose all the indicators and just run lights. I am converting mine to a café racer at the moment and just going as simple as possible. I have no ignition system just a hidden switch somewhere on the bike. I am trying to source a pipe from the racing club as they change the designs of them meaning the older versions get sold off from time to time. I have then just used the rear footrests and dropped the carrier off for the front rests. You will need to mod the brake lever and I have the gears reversed (I tell myself it's like a moto gp bike ha) I have lost the indicators, mounted a different seat with a battery in the rear hump, will prob be premix. If you go the café racer route you will have to use the rear foot rests meaning two up won't be an option. It is so uncomfortable if you do not do this. But the position you end up in on the rears is not far off perfect when you are lay on the tank.
I think this one looks ace (minus the exhaust) and nothing on it is overly fancy.
You're spot on, that's a fab looking bike! Get some pics of yours up eh?
I could quite happily own that linked bike, perfect stripped down utilitarian machine. At the prices available they also seem worthy of experimentation, probably best way to do a bare bones cafe racer.
What's the difference between 250 and 251s?
tom13 - Member
...I think this one looks ace (minus the exhaust) and nothing on it is overly fancy...
I'd be a bit worried about the exhaust system - not the look, its functionality.
You need a bit of back pressure to make a 2 stroke sing, that's why they had those funny shaped expansion chambers.
I'd expect that thing to melt piston crowns if it had any sort of performance.
Could be wrong, maybe the internals of the exhaust have been sorted, but I reckon that's unlikely.
I don't have any pics on my phone sorry. It will be somewhat like the one in the picture but with a different exhaust and chrome rims. Keeping my tank the original colour too as it has a nice bit of wear on it.
Yeah that exhaust doesn't look to have a spannie so doubt it would be very effective and the power band would be none existent.
Anyone with Moto Guzzi experience?
Some of their 80s models look great. Seems to be a few 500-750cc twins around, starting at about £1500 for anything half decent
If you're looking at Guzzis may I suggest BMWs instead.
Almost always looked after. Stone axe simple to rebuild - especially if you invest in a few special tools for the trickier jobs, and a huge supply of spare parts.
R80s were least likely to have been thrashed IMO.
There have been some very creative customs built around them.
[i]MZ's might be odd, but they're not crap, just different.[/i]
Yer, right...
Maybe it's because I've not my rose-tinted spectacles on, but based on actually riding 70's/80's bikes at the time they're weren't a patch on same year Japanese bikes.
slimjim78 - MemberAnyone with Moto Guzzi experience?
Some of their 80s models look great. Seems to be a few 500-750cc twins around, starting at about £1500 for anything half decent
had a v50, crap electrics, spewed oil with various seal failures, swapped it for a bottle of vodka.
I'm really surprised by there being so many 2 stroke MZ fans, me and just about everyone I know thought they were just cheap unreliable crap in the 80's. Often issued by courier companies at a price to new riders learning the job when I lived in London. Neither the riders or the bikes lasted very long. I guess despite this they probably reminisce about them or something
Just to tickle your fancy - here's what can be done with a BMW
[img] http://advrider.com/index.php?attachments/image-jpg.568693/ [/img]
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[url= http://www.bikeexif.com/?s=BMW ]and more here[/url]
The big issue, is that most survivor bikes from the 60's 70's had some worth -Commando's Bonnevilles ect. But they're all £8k for a reason.
The 80's are really when cheap jap bikes kicked in without any sort of quality euro counterparts. I can't even look at most of whats been posted without thinking I'd rather walk than ride.
Crap frames. Crap engines. Crap brakes. why bother - the rosy glow of retro isn't going to keep you warm when you're on the side of the A31 with an AA man taking the piss.
If you want retro style, try lookng slightly newer - A Honda XBR or its retro styled GB500 Or its XBR less retro styled equivilent. Frankly, if I wanted something for sub £1500, retro, I'd buy an ageing Ducati Monster - 600-750 or even 900 cc air cooled - you choose - or even a naked SV and then stick clip ons and a TT style seat/tail piece to it. Far more sensible and fun.
Kawasaki Zephyr, aircooled, 4 cylinder traditional looking came in 550, 750 and 1100cc flavours.
Sorry can't post photos due to work email restrictions:(
I'm not saying they were better than the jap stuff. I prefer the jap stuff but the price difference is astronomical. I have only ever really been around jap 2 Stokes in our family but my dad had an mz as a commuter and it was great. Hence me giving it a new lease of life.
A lot of people compare them with the jawas that were around at the same time that were pretty poor hence the bad name tarnishing them too.
I know a few guys that have bough cheap Suzuki savages and Yamaha xs' and done flat track or bobber variants on those and they gave been great. Not huge money. You just have to watch out as silly things like wheels, tyres and exhausts can add 1500 on to a project to get the right look if you have your heart set on a certain style.
😯If you want retro style, try lookng slightly newer - A Honda XBR or its retro styled GB500 Or its XBR less retro styled equivilent. Frankly, if I wanted something for sub £1500, retro, [b]I'd buy an ageing Ducati Monster[/b] - 600-750 or even 900 cc air cooled - you choose - or even a naked SV and then stick clip ons and a TT style seat/tail piece to it. Far more sensible and fun.
You are aware of the reputation Ducati have, aren't you? Garage queens, more time spent on their stand waiting for yet another failure to be sorted. While their handling may be better than early Jap bikes, generally speaking reliability was a complete joke.
I'll ask you this: just how many Italian bikes would you expect to see being used by London bike couriers, compared to Japanese ones? Many of the handling issues can be lessened just by putting much better shocks on the back, as I pointed out in regard to my brothers CB750KZ.
My favourite example of a custom so far, XJ650 bobber, welded rear end (hardtail), stock wheels, tank, fork (chopped 3"). Alledgedly bought and built for $600 all in!
[URL= http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/keepitsteel/image_zpsxde6eiup.jpe g" target="_blank">
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/keepitsteel/image_zpsxde6eiup.jpe g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
Here's a sweet little Honda CB350 scrambler mod: http://www.bikeexif.com/catskill-honda-cb350-scrambler
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Mine would be more than £1000 and its not for sale! But it shows that 70's bikes can be reliable, it even has a removable kick start for when the battery is flat!!
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CountZero - Member
You are aware of the reputation Ducati have, aren't you?...
I agree. As an ex owner, only too well aware. The older Ducatis can be made reliable, but it requires a complete stripdown and rebuild to exact specification, fanatical attention to the bevel clearances. Get it all done to the thou and yes then you have a good Ducati mechanically. Then replace the electrics and that's the rest sorted. The problem lies in the cost of getting a person expert enough to do this, not the actual bike. It's a beautiful design, slapped together, and then usually inexpertly maintained - if you can hear mechanical noise, it's not done right.
Old Japanese bikes biggest problem is that they run out of spares - Japanese factories don't have the make the bike last forever ethic of some European companies. The motors in the likes of the Kawasaki, Honda, and Suzuki 4s were incredibly strong - all they needed was maintenance. I used to pit for a champion drag racer and I saw those engines running reliably boosted way above factory standard.
The companies that have a huge aftermarket like Harley etc also means that you rarely get a cheap bike.
The reason I've taken an interest in this thread is because I'm going through the same process. I'm looking for a pre 1976 bike so there's no road tax. The bike wouldn't get ridden much, so I don't want it eating money while it's sitting.
The bikes I'm looking at are BMW and Royal Enfield. BMW are a proven quality, and I still have a swag of spares. 🙂
I have experience with Royal Enfield in my youth, so I know how to make them fly, but handling and braking was never a strong point. Maybe Indian components would help. The availability of the cheap Indian bits makes the Enfield very attractive.
Well....it was not within your budget, but I've just got this after a 16 year lay-off from bikes. 25,000km, 30 years old and runs like a swiss clock. Very haappy. Just the ticket for the roads and tracks here near Grenoble!
I too am a huge MZ fun. They are actually very cleverly engineered but are vastly different. I have a mint ETZ251 one of the last before the wall came down sitting in my parents garage. I will never sell it and will bring it over here eventually.
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With people mentioning Italian bikes,I'd love a Guzzi cafe racer like this.
Obviously this would exceed the OP's budget...
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http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/MarkF-XT/GUZZI%20cafe%20racer.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
Guzzi? This would do it for me 🙂
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@ epicyclo 😉 I knew you'd come round 🙂
Nice Goldwing /\
Some great suggestions so far, thanks guys. just researching the model numbers suggested is good fun. Pretty sure I'm still settled on a mid sized cruiser style 80s machine. Ideally a twin or something that sounds good.
Quite like the idea of bratting an XJ650. Also liking the look of the Guzzi's and BMW R80
I've nothing useful to add to this thread other than thanks for bringing back some fond childhood memories.
Used to dream about z1300s as a ten year old...
Good luck with the project!
[url=http://]null http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-XBR500G-1986-/282088475941?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 [/url] This the sort of retro style thing?
^[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-XBR500G-1986-/282088475941?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 ]Just sorted the link for you[/url]
This is a bit more like what I'm looking for: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302007280678
im also seriously considering a punt on this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311647557979
clocks and rear fender missing, but readily available - plus engine/wheels/frame look super clean. Looks to me like a nearly completed project. Is supposed to fire up nicely and runs well.
I'd prefer a bit more patina ideally, but at least the tank is in good as new condition.
Plus, despite its small scale - im drawn to this wee beauty: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201606185035835
1500 quid for a cb400! You could have my almost unused firestorm for that.
That cb will be a money pit*. Any area could be a grand to sort out. Carbs, gearbox, top end, bottom end, suspension...
*probably
But it will be [u][i]my[/i][/u] money pit...
im also seriously considering a punt on this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311647557979clocks and rear fender missing, but readily available - plus engine/wheels/frame look super clean. Looks to me like a nearly completed project. Is supposed to fire up nicely and runs well.
I'd prefer a bit more patina ideally, but at least the tank is in good as new condition.
I reckon that most of the patina* on that is under the exhaust wrap.
By patina I mean empty space.
[b]1500 quid for a CB400?!!!!!![/b] Are you out of your ****ing mind?!!!! Get a grip!!!!!
They were a horrible ugly slug of a thing when they were new. the idea of riding a high mileage, well usedd one of those agricultural heaps of shit doesn't bear thinking about.
Buy a proper bike FFS!! Theres been enough of them mentioned on this thread. I'd quite fancy that XBR500 actually. A mate had one, and they're a right laugh. A big thumper would be infinitely preferable to a bloody awful CB400. They're absolute dogs!
^ +1
My first big bike was an XBR500 They are great bike, all the charm of the old brit singles with none of the associated hassles. I really fancied the GB version (ironically named Japanese grey import) but ended up swapping it for a CB750 which was a big ol' monster
im also seriously considering a punt on this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311647557979
clocks and rear fender missing, but readily available - plus engine/wheels/frame look super clean. Looks to me like a nearly completed project. Is supposed to fire up nicely and runs well.I'd prefer a bit more patina ideally, but at least the tank is in good as new condition.
Looks very much like the 750KZ I posted up a photo of on p2.
The pipes may be a bit pitted, hence the wrap over the top. A new zorst may well be in order, or just have wrap on all four pipes.
A new set of rear shocks would probably be required, the stock ones are pretty woeful, and getting the front forks fettled would help a lot too.
I was pipped by £20.
Off to check out the local importers tomorrow morning. They're overpriced but it'll be nice to browse
If you're looking at Japanese bikes, make sure the exhaust is perfect, and if not check the replacement price. It may exceed what you are paying for the bike.
And don't be sucked in to the "patina" crap. Faded paint maybe, but corrosion no way. Corrosion is a sign the bike has not been looked after.
Also it's all the small parts that cost a lot, so don't make assumptions that they will be cheap to replace. Again check the replacement price before purchasing the bike.
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That was my 1990 GT550, I owned it for a year and only sold it as I got a 2004 cbf 600 for a steal. I would have kept it for a project bike but as it was 4 cylinder I reckoned it would be a nightmare to take off road.
I paid £500 for that bike by the way, it had no mot, needed a front tyre and a siezed front caliper but £100 is all it cost to put it on the road.
I'm looking at a GT750 on ePay, low mileage and fairly local
Good engines, rubbery handling.
Plenty enthusiast owners. Nice to ride but don't push the limits.
David Silver seem to stock everything for Honda.
Please, don't buy a Superdream.
They were pretty cheaply built for a Honda and rotted really badly.
Overly complex for the size and heavy for their weight.
The 400's are ok until you have to do anything, then they're a fiddly pain in the arse.
Yamaha XS250 & 400's are even worse.
That bad they're almost British.
Oddly, the XS650's are really good, and, er, almost so good they're British.
If you see pretty much any air cooled Kawasaki four stroke twin just run away.
Luckily, most of them will not be able to catch you.
My dad had a 440 custom Kwak twin and the engine was great. Handled like crap though.
Instead of looking at all these old dogs, that are potential money-pits, and are mostly poor handling, dog slow heaps of shit, why don't you just buy a [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Suzuki/9808/i.html?_nkw=suzuki+bandit+600&_frs=1 ]600 Bandit[/url]?
£1500 will buy you a really clean, low mileage example. They're great bikes, bomb proof and cheap as chips to run.
He's right you know. 🙂
Early Yam 600 Fazers are really nice too.
Modern looks and tyres, suspension and brakes that should be worth a refresh.
My first bike was a Bandit 650. Have also owned a 1200. Very 'nice' - just don't make my heart flutter when I look at them.
Have also owned a mint 600 Fazer (she was goooolden). Again, nice reliable comfy ride - but slightly dull.
Just to be clear, this purchase is equally as much about posing as it is riding. I'm going full on open face helmet, goggles, tan leather jacket, brown steel toe caps - tattoos and beard, etc.
I'm going to look pretty fly for a white guy.
I'm decided, it's got to be an 80's mid weight looker, or possibly a 90's throwback (Zephyr etc).
I promise not to buy a superdream . Scouts honour
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142046897527 Brummmmm!!!
Aha. In that case, if it was me, I'd stretch the budget and go [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V-max-1200-/172263900137?hash=item281bba83e9:g:HbUAAOSwvg9XVbG8 ]full on daft!!!!!![/url] 😀
Always wanted one when I was a yoot. Is actually tempting
There was an XT500 in town this afternoon, completely stock, 'R'-reg, a few chips in the paint, original drum brakes, got chatting to the owner, who said it had been off the road for ten years. Did a bit of work, got it MOT'd, and he said it's just so much fun to ride, just needs care kicking it into life; a sore/broken ankle or punted over the bars is a possibility with a 500 single, but it started first kick while I was there, and sounded lovely as he rode off.
Sorry, no photo, I got so involved talking I forgot.
slimjim78 - Member
...Just to be clear, this purchase is equally as much about posing as it is riding. I'm going full on open face helmet, goggles, tan leather jacket, brown steel toe caps - tattoos and beard, etc.
I'm going to look pretty fly for a white guy...
Then what you need is a Harley or an old British bike. So blow the budget and get a [url= https://hollismotorcycles.com ]Hollis[/url]. 🙂
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This seems a good easy project - just needs some polishing for a sound bike. Low mileage, seems about £800 cheaper than the competition... Should I snap it up?
It's no barn stormer but I could get some good use out of it and move it on next year for a profit if it's too dull?...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282079869958
That looks sensible to me. Go for it. 🙂
Howabout a gsx750w (or inazauma) -
I think I'd rather a Zephyr than a GT.
Those Hollis use cane creek double barrel shocks for the rear.
Went and took a look at this old girl : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252454484036
It starts first time, seems to idle nicely and the seller is apparently going to put 12 months MOT on this week.
Have done a bit of research and found several statements proclaiming the GS850 to have one of the 'most reliable engines ever produced'. Which is nice.
Chrome work is excellent, there's an odd coloured side panel and sourcing an original may be tricky. It has just about the right amount of faded former glory that I like on old machinery - so i'm very tempted..
Crazy idle speed when on choke though, I thought the guy was determined to kill the engine but upon reading a bit more it turns out to be a Suzuki trait at the time. Cold blooded engines apparently.
Going back to take a closer inspection tomorrow as its currently wedged in between about a dozen other imports in his yard.
Someone please tell me that these bikes should be avoided at all costs, or, that its the best bike ever made.
It's lovely, but can you get any bodywork or chassis bits for it?
I've never seen one in the flesh over here.
I rode a standard-ish, ratty GS850G shaftie a bit and really rated it.
Big, squashy, comfy thing.
Very reliable.
Heavy, long, poor brakes and suspension.
Lovely engine, softly tuned.
I would.
🙂
slimjim78 - Member
...done a bit of research and found several statements proclaiming the GS850 to have one of the 'most reliable engines ever produced'.
Those GS motors were very popular for drag racing. Bulletproof even on Nitro. Just keep the oil clean cool and well filtered.
Bullet bitten. Or should that be 'brick'?
I've ended up with a BMW K75(T). Picking it up in a few days, can't wait to get some fair weather miles on it.
Any K series love in the house?
Bricks are great, mate dispatched on a 1000 brick it did mega miles.
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Hope it's going to be closer to this^^
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Than this^^ 😉
ha, the funny thing is that its almost identical to the 2nd pic
The 75 is a very sweet bike, a better more balanced engine than the 1000. Enjoy it
BRRRUMMMM BRRUUUUUUMMMMMMMM!!!!
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Turned up today. Mildly disappointed as it's nowhere near as mint as I'd been lead to believe so have typically paid way too much for it. Hey ho, mechanics are sound and goes lovely, may make a great brat or cafe job out of it next year instead.
Weeds currently being attended.
Looks good to me for £500
If it goes and has a decent MOT then you can't ask for much else of a 20y/o bike for £500.
It'll still be 5h1t though, unless you're actually looking for something old/heavy/slow/aged etc.
You'll be now after a dayglo Sam Browne and an IAM sticker 🙂
Ha, it's 30 years old, slow(ish), heavy, handles nice though, great riding position - cost me a fair wedge more than £500 sobs thoug :-/
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I've made worse decisions
If it ticks all your boxes and is reliable,then it will be fine.
Get on some of the beemer forums and see what other folk do with them.
Great places for advice and ideas.
So the Brick leaks a bit. Parked it up ready to recommission next season.
In the meantime I saw this locally and couldnt resist. Had to source an OEM exhaust system and have a section welded (balance pipe), finally got it sorted last week and its a blast to ride!
[URL= http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/keepitsteel/7BE7B97D-C610-4E18-8F75-44FD61A07D9A_zpsoltfmn8z.jp g" target="_blank">
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82 XJ650 (Maxim). US Import, has had the daft lay back handlebars replaced for Euro style.
I love it. Cost nearly half the price of the K75, and for that reason I reckon the beemer will be moving on next spring.