[Closed] Health and safety gone mad.

Go on, explain to me how this is elf n safety gone mad.

If you witness people endangering themselves and others by reckless behaviour like you say you need to MTFU and report it before someone is killed and a family loses a father/husband/son.

That guy has got some grapes!

I'd feel safer, and probably would be safer, doing that than cycling in a town.

MTFU and report it? That man is badass, reporting him would be MTFDown. Danger is cool, surely people on an MTB forum should know this. 8)

MTFU and report it? That man is badass, reporting him would be MTFDown. Danger is cool, surely people on an MTB forum should know this.

He's a dick who's behaviour puts himself and others that he affects or influences at risk. Once you grow a little hair round your nuts the realisation will kick in. Until then try not to hurt yourself.

36 mate. If growing hair around my nuts involves losing any sense of humour I'll start shaving my balls thanks.

Given your obvious brain capacity I'd not advise you to put a razor blade anywhere near your sack.

I shave my balls now.....did a thread about on here and everything.

Again, sense of humour. You are one uptight individual. I was leaving a humorous comment on an Internet forum. I apologise if I offended your sensibilities. How exactly would one go about judging intelligence based off an attempt at a humorous comment? Chill.

Mad!
if he is risking others without their consent then its naughty. If he has their consent then it is legit. His own safety has sod all to do with anyone else. No one has a moral right to insist on another person looking after themselves.
as usual our law is an ass.

You're so old and mature and cool and funny and everything yossarian.

You're so old and mature and cool and funny and everything yossarian.

Yeah, it's drag. Trouble is, once you've investigated a few fatalities and you've spoken to colleagues about how and why and its fairly apparent that someone just thought it would be cool to not play by the rules which are there to stop people getting killed you tend to get a little bored with armchair heroes who don't understand that a proper **** up might result in death or permanent disablement him or others.

Take our death defying window cleaner. Do I care enormously about him? No, his choice, his risk. His wife/ kids/ mates might not like it but its his choice. The company who's building he's cleaning need to have a word with themselves though. He's operating on their property, with their consent and carrying their liability. What about the people walking below. If Spider-Man falls off and wipes someone out is it still cool? Do they have a choice? Who protects them against ****wittery? The law is the answer and quite honestly the HSE, generally, are one of the few enforcers who are genuinely on our side.

Apart from not wearing a harness I don't see any problem at all at that height.

If he falls he falls but I am not going to tell him how to do his job ...

🙄

He's acting selfishly by behaving like that, IMO. Unfortunately the law states that other people are responsible for him in that situation, so if he dies, it's somebody else who goes to prison.

He could have fallen onto a rare bird.

Should we stop Danny Macaskill from riding, big wave riders from surfing, Rodney Mullen from skating or the Nitro Circus team from performing asshatery because it's dangerous and may result in them or somebody else getting injured? Slightly different from the OP, but the same principles apply. Report them and fine them for pushing boundaries and not playing by the rules?

wallop - Member

He's acting selfishly by behaving like that, IMO. Unfortunately the law states that other people are responsible for him in that situation, [b]so if he dies, it's somebody else who goes to prison.[/b]

Yes, the blame culture is so deeply ingrained in the masses the system is screwed.

Lifer - Member

He could have fallen onto a rare bird.

If that is the case his family should be prosecuted.

🙄

But Danny McAskill isn't working on behalf of his employer, in the way that the window cleaner is. Nobody is responsible for Danny, other than himself.

It's not the same.

As a window cleaner who has done contract work for big firms I know that he should have submitted his method statement and risk assessment to the company .If he is on their property not working safely they are as guilty as he is for not making sure he complies with Health and Safety rules .Years ago I think it was Westminster council who were fined after a window cleaner fell 4 floors from a plank bridged across a corner .I got reprimanded on one site for standing on a milk crate as it was not an approved step .Took a caravan step next month and that was fine

It's not a blame culture, it's called Health & Safety at Work. Would you rather your employer took no H&S responsibility in your workplace?

Having worked for companies where we usually had employee deaths, every year, this isn't a case of 'H&S gorn mad' - although not sure a fine is needed when he's self-employed.

He could have fallen onto a rare bird.

Or decapitated a seagull

I see this in Edinburgh and Glasgow all the time and at much higher heights than the guy in the video.

Having worked for companies where we usually had employee deaths, every year, this isn't a case of 'H&S gorn mad' - although not sure a fine is needed when he's self-employed.

Just about sums it up for me too.

True Wallop, but what if he injures somebody else or God forbid a rare bird? I was referring more to the reckless behaviour and reporting people for partaking in it as opposed to the legal and blame aspects. Would you report somebody such as Macaskill if you saw him performing in the street because what he does could be seen as endangering himself and others?

Apologies, should have been clearer in my previous post. 😥

Would you report somebody such as Macaskill if you saw him performing in the street because what he does could be seen as endangering himself and others?

I'm 1000% sure that Danny's legal people and the guys that film his stuff have got this bit nailed on. Nob head window cleaner guy and the employer didn't , hence the fine.

Speaking outside court, a Loch Fyne spokesman said the company took health and safety "extremely seriously" and expected the same from its contractors.

"We accept today's decision and are grateful this isolated incident in Bath was brought to our attention.

"As a result we have put tighter measures in place to prevent anything similar happening again, including stricter procedures for our restaurant manager to follow when using external contractors."

funkmasterp - Member
Would you report somebody such as Macaskill if you saw him performing in the street because what he does could be seen as endangering himself and others?

Nope. I may suggest wearing a harness but apart from that I want to see emergency helicopter in action. 😈

Not trying to start an argument, but what about before he had a legal team and insurance. He must have developed those skills in the streets, the same as most pro street skaters. Would you consider it reckless endangerment then and report him for it?

Joking aside, the window cleaner clearly acted like a tool. Yossarian, genuinely out of interest what do you think of the French fella who climbs buildings? Apologies, I can't think of his name right now.

Yeah, it's drag. Trouble is, once you've investigated a few fatalities and you've spoken to colleagues about how and why and its fairly apparent that someone just thought it would be cool to not play by the rules which are there to stop people getting killed you tend to get a little bored with armchair heroes who don't understand that a proper **** up might result in death or permanent disablement him or others.

Take our death defying window cleaner. Do I care enormously about him? No, his choice, his risk. His wife/ kids/ mates might not like it but its his choice. The company who's building he's cleaning need to have a word with themselves though. He's operating on their property, with their consent and carrying their liability. What about the people walking below. If Spider-Man falls off and wipes someone out is it still cool? Do they have a choice? Who protects them against ****wittery? The law is the answer and quite honestly the HSE, generally, are one of the few enforcers who are genuinely on our side.

Every so often somebody publishes something on here that is so correct and true, yet others still object, perhaps if the window cleaner fell on your dad or kids and put them in a parylysed state or even killed them, or they had the job if you can call it that of going round to the families house and telling them of the injury or fatality,then you would take the easy way out and get it reported and pass the buck onto somebody who can and will enforce the rules and stop this dangerous behaviour.

If health and safety rules are not enforced then a bidding war to the bottom ensues. A company that followed correct procedures couldn't compete with cowboys. Without rules employers can pressure employees to take the risks.

A total separate issue from risk anyone chooses to take elsewhere that affect only them like technical MTBing, mountaineering etc.

Not trying to start an argument, but what about before he had a legal team and insurance. He must have developed those skills in the streets, the same as most pro street skaters. Would you consider it reckless endangerment then and report him for it?

Fair point. My response is no, unless what he was doing was likely to impact on others. As the owner/occupier of a number of high rise buildings it's a constant battle to let people have fun without killing themselves or others. Common sense applies. We get skaters and bmxers at our place after hours. My security team, through my direction, give them a little advice on traffic routes and hazardous areas. We also give them access to the toilets and water etc as they are a good bunch of lads and a second pair of eyes on the site. On a couple of occasions my guys have had to give a fallee some plasters etc but its up to them. No-one else is around and we accommodate as best we can.

Joking aside, the window cleaner clearly acted like a tool. Yossarian, genuinely out of interest what do you think of the French fella who climbs buildings? Apologies, I can't think of his name right now.

Alain Robert? I love what he does but I can see why the owners of the buildings react like they do. If he gets stuck or falls they have to sort it out.

health and safety gone right

he was risking people walking on the path below him
undercutting window cleaners who had quoted for doing the job safely
the employer had a duty of care, if they awarded the contract on price along without asking how it was to be carried out they deserved the fine they got

Hats off to you for treating young skaters and BMX riders so well. You might be helping out the next Mullen or Hoffman 🙂 I can now see why you see the window cleaner in the OP's post in the light you do. From your perspective as a building owner and the responsibilities that entails people like him must be a bloody nightmare.

Here's hoping Monsieur Robert doesn't decide to climb one of your buildings 🙂

If it affects no one , no on should have any duty.
If he was risking dropping a bucket on some one fair enough but the principle that everyone is responsible for each other is just plain madness. If some one says he will do a job for me, morally its his job to see if he is safe Not mine. Our whole culture of having some one to blame and protect our arses is just sad.

Did you read the thread mattsccm?

In that situation he's not so isolated that he won't affect anyone else if he makes a mistake.

Hats off to you for treating young skaters and BMX riders so well. You might be helping out the next Mullen or Hoffman I can now see why you see the window cleaner in the OP's post in the light you do. From your perspective as a building owner and the responsibilities that entails people like him must be a bloody nightmare.
Here's hoping Monsieur Robert doesn't decide to climb one of your buildings

Cheers funkmasterp 🙂 they are a decent bunch of kids and I genuinely can't see any reason to kick them out. We do occasionally have to intervene when they stack up pallets to get into roofs to attempt ridiculous acid drops.

I'd love it if Robert had a go, I'd have to pretend I didn't though. A mate of mine once broke into Canterbury cathedral and scaled Bell Harry. He told the police he wanted to get closer to God. 😀

[img] [/img]

Anybody who thinks he's not endangering others just look up Loch Fyne Milsom Hotel in Bath on Streetview. It's at the corner of two very busy footpaths in the shopping area of Bath.

a health and safety failing that resulted in a fatality.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-23100844

was it a failing or a tragic accident, the court decided it was a failing.

http://news.hse.gov.uk/category/topic/falls-from-height/

Should we stop Danny Macaskill from riding, big wave riders from surfing, Rodney Mullen from skating or the Nitro Circus team from performing asshatery because it's dangerous and may result in them or somebody else getting injured?

No of course not. Everybody knows strawmen are nice and soft and unlikely to cause injury to bystanders.

The [s]cretin[/s] bloke is a working at height, without a harness/fall arrest system. He is not using tethered tools and there is no exclusion zone beneath him to protect members of the Public should he drop anything or fall (as a guideline it should be twice the size of the height you are working at).

As an advanced climber/tower rescuer IMO he should have been fined a lot more.

Here is a proper healthy and safety gone mad

Ben wants to do his Y 10 work expertise with Harry. But Ben isn't allowed because Harry isn't CRB checked. Seems fair enough.

But Harry is Bens dad

Who he lives with. Mother and father still together, no custody issues or anything

That's not health and safety though, it's not right, but its not health and safety act.

Firstly CRB no longer exists. It's DBS now, disclosure & barring service. Secondly the work placement provider needs to risk assess the placement which in your? case has only one appropriate outcome given the info. It's a non event, challenge them and PM me if you need/want to.

https://www.gov.uk/disclosure-barring-service-check/overview