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I doubt we’ll agree
To be fair the difference between your claim that Owen Jones is only correct 50% of the time and rone's claim that he is mostly correct isn't a huge gulf to bridge.
Especially if rone puts a figure of say 55% on his claim.
Personally I have no opinion on the accuracy of Jones's comments as the only Guardian columnist I have ever read with any sort of vague regularity has been Seamus Milne, all the others I invariably give up somewhere in the first paragraph.
I generally find reading Daily Mail columnists more educational, useful, and entertaining.
Jones often takes both sides of the argument, choosing a side depending on recent events. I rate his writing, despite (perhaps because) of his flexibility (dressed up as otherwise). On top of that, one of very few columnists I’d happily buy a drink… a decent bloke who deserves more support and less of the vitriol that is sent his way.
It’s a testament to the Guardian that Owen Jones, Polly Toynbee, Andrew Rawnsley, George Monbiot and Simon Jenkins all have columns with the paper. That’s a good, wide spread of opinions which doesn’t really exist in any other paper
Read them all and make your own mind up
I’ve never relied upon a single source for information, nor am I tied to any particular source.
Yep, that largely describes my reading habits. I pretty much always try to read a range of sources, including opinion and reportage. I've never understood why folks who claim to have read writers like Chomsky, then will uncritically quote a news source.
Privately-educated (Winchester), Oxford PPE graduate, multi-millionaire (from inherited wealth) ‘communist’ (no contradiction in that eh?) Seamas Milne?
Stalin apologist (come on, other than murdering millions, he wasn’t that bad) Seamas Milne?
Highly paid ‘Mastermind’ of Jeremy Corbyn phenomenally successful 2019 election campaign Seamas Milne?
That Seamas Milne?
Yeah, exactly what we’re missing in the Guardian is finding out his thoughts on everything 😂
Grace Dent is reviewing a new London restaurant called Eggslut, where it costs 45 quid for 2 fried egg butties
She does give it a good slagging off for being too expensive though.
The problem with the Guardian is it’s all we’ve got.
Stalin apologist
A bit like me then, apart from private educated, you can see the attraction.
No, you are right RBIT, I haven't really read anything by Milne since I stopped buying my hard copies of the Guardian a few years back - does he still write for them?
I used to chuckle when I read his columns as he basically put into words all my thoughts. I never quite understand how anyone with such a privileged middle class background could have such a strong class conscience.
Me and Milne different life experiences, same conclusions.
I think he stopped (officially on sabbatical IIRC) when he became Labour’s director of comms, but had actively lobbied against the current editor’s appointment so wasn’t exactly welcomes back with open arms.
The problem with the Guardian is it’s all we’ve got.
This. Independent used to be OK but the wheels fell off that a long time ago, even before they invited Bonio to guest edit.
Stalin apologist
A bit like me then, apart from private educated, you can see the attraction.
Are there any more genocidal dictators, responsible for the deaths of millions, you and Seamas are fans of, or is it just the one?
Pol Pot gets a bad press and is probably due a more sympathetic reappraisal.
He's Pol Pot and Nigel Farage all rolled into one!
But wait binners,........ your newspaper has helped Milne to make a living.
What is it about this genocidal racist that the Guardian loves so much?
‘My’ newspaper?
I did used to work for them, but it was in the 90’s. I could tell you some stories about that Ernesto 😉
The whole point is that the Guardian publish columns by a wide range of people, including the type of Brexit-supporting, genocide-excusing racists that you personally favour
I would imagine what the Guardian paid him was small change to multi-millionaire, champagne communist Seamas.
Mind you, I don’t know if you remember when magic grandad appointed him as his director of comms, he demanded, and got, a huge salary increase over the previous incumbents
Proper ‘man of the people’ eh?
You made the comment sarcastically but he literally is just a Trotskyite Farage
He’s been awfully quiet since his Corbyn gravy-train ended. Perhaps he’s just at home counting his money
Milne hasn’t worked for the Guardian since 2015
Since he stopped writing in support of Stalin and Nigel Farage?
I believe that binners scathing attacks on Milne being an alledged "genocide-excusing racist" is completely based on the time that he was an associate editor of the Guardian.
Yes, and I knew he was because I read his articles. That’s my point…
The Guardian publish articles by a broad range of people, some of whom you agree with, some you don’t
I always though Milne was an extremist clown and I was incredulous when the leader of the Labour Party appointed him as his director of comms. Then I remembered it was Magic Grandad, so… really… what else would you expect? Of course he did.
The Guardian publish articles by a broad range of people, some of whom you agree with, some you don’t
Ah, now I understand why you are such a huge fan of the Guardian binners - your tolerance of other people's opinions is the stuff of legends.
There is nothing that you like more than to listen to the political opinions of other people - left or right.
Always open-minded and tolerant to a fault.
Marina Hyde's sarcasm works because it's funny and entertaining. Humourless sarcasm is just a form of aggression.
I read The Guardian through online subscription, £11.99 a month for an almost paper experience. I have read I, Independent and in my youth Morning Star. Yes, The Guardian has a lot of stuff that makes me laugh, holidays, restaurants, dream houses etc but that just reminds me how some people live. Our only chance of a “better life” is if we win the lottery. It still gives an alternative view and that’s what’s needed, take a broader picture of life, embrace alternative views and keep yourself informed.
I think the Guardian’s sub model is the fairest - no paywall, but you’re encouraged to subscribe. If we want decent journalism holding those in power to account, then we’re going to have to pay for it one way or other.
Humourless sarcasm is just a form of aggression.
Oh I don't know, I find binners quite entertaining. It is all a bit predictable though.
For goodness sake. Ernie, I find some of your contributions educational but I’m not sure you’re helping yourself here.
I’m not sure you’re helping yourself here.
Helping myself? I am not seeking approval. I like the former associate editor of the Guardian Seumas Milne, I find that not much more than a fag paper separates me and him politically.
But I obviously would not expect to convince STW. Do you think that I am new to STW?
Don't confuse my reaction to binners claims that Milne is, quote, "a genocide-excusing racist" as an attempt to convince otherwise.
Edit; The political opinions of the overwhelming majority of STWer are totally entrenched. You would have to be very naive to believe that anything you post makes a difference.
The political threads do play a vaguely useful role though, for me anyway. They help me to understand alternative opinions and establish my own opposing arguments, which I can then use in the real world. I regularly read the Daily Mail for similar reasons.
I think the Guardian’s sub model is the fairest
Me too, I don’t have to pay a penny towards an organ which pretends to be on the side of working people but then does everything it can to prevent politicians who might help them from gaining power.
Here you go Ernesto. One of Seamas Milnes many articles, this one in the Guardian, where he argues that Stalin was just … you know… a bit misunderstood
Is there only a fag-paper separating your views from his on this?
How would you feel if it was the holocaust he was denying? Because there isn’t really a difference
This rewriting of history is spreading Europe's poison
And for an added bonus, his Putin apologism, just like Comrade Corbyns, hasn’t aged well either. Then again, maybe all this frightful Ukraine business is just a bit of a misunderstanding too?
Humourless sarcasm
Fair point, Ed. Pointedly made at the right time in the thread. 🙂
Here you go Ernesto.
Goodness binners - trawling through 15 year old Guardian articles to score a point against me - you are really are taking this seriously!
I probably read that article 15 years ago but I'm not reading it again - it's quite long! Can you copy and paste the bit where Milne argued that Stalin was "a bit misunderstood"? Or was that just a bit of "clever sarcasm" on your part?
How would you feel if it was the holocaust he was denying?
So now you are asking me how I feel about opinions which he might have but doesn't have! You really are desperate! 😊
And Corbyn never warned us that the threat Putin posed should be taken seriously? Where do you get your information from - the Guardian or the Daily Mail?
Are we moving off The Guardian, and onto Russia Today?
Goodness binners – trawling through 15 year old Guardian articles to score a point against me
Trawling? Are you familiar with the use of search engines? You may have heard of something called Google? No…?
It took about 20 Seconds. Its literally the first thing that comes up after his Wikipedia page. He became infamous for it. It’s hardly like you need to go looking for it. It was brought up repeatedly when magic grandad appointed him as everyone collectively said ‘WTF?! Seriously?! Are you kidding me?! That headbanger?!’
It was published in the Guardian, for gods sake, not in the outer reaches of the dark web. That’s kind of the point of newspapers. The clue’s in the title.
Is there a point to all this? Fun though I’m sure it is
My point was that the Guardian is a decent publication because it publishes a wide range of opinions even from rich, establishment, Uber-privileged Trotskyite, genocide-excusing loons like Milne
Your point? Dunno really? Is there one?
So definitely not a fan of Milne then, nor Corbyn. It's funny how you can get so rattled over someone having a different opinion to yours. I'll never mention Milne again, maybe 😉
When you have have calmed down and got your breath back have a read of this, you might not have read it in the Guardian
Fact check: No politician has been more consistent about Putin than Corbyn
"For the Tories and the Labour establishment, mocking Corbyn distracts from their own long-lived collaboration with Vladimir Putin and his oligarchs."
Unfortunately Nathan Barley was a prophecy and Dan was right…
This is terrifyingly accurate, even with egg reference
Again… what’s your point? Is there one in your festival of whataboutery?
You have got so confused, presumably due to the outrage ignited over the mention of a former associate editor of Guardian, that you have forgotten that it was you who decided to challenge me, not the other way round.
I'll remind you that you went into a rage, calling Milne a genocide-excusing racist, after I had the audacity to say, quote, "the only Guardian columnist I have ever read with any sort of vague regularity has been Seamas Milne".
A simple "I never liked Seamas Milne" would have done.
And as for "your festival of whataboutery" are you for real? You somehow managed to bring Pol Pot into the conversation and you then asked me what about if Milne was a Holocaust denier!
I didn't answer that question as Milne is not a Holocaust denier, but just for clarity I would of course not hesitate to denounce him ...... it's really not difficult or complicated.
Although it might be for you - you once claimed that politics is like game. Which presumably means that you pick a side and stick with it.
LOL! You have no self awareness! 😆
Binners is accurate on Seumas Milne and doesn't deserve Ernie getting personal.
Just sent the above message to the moderators rather than launch into a personal attack on you, Ernie.
Maybe we could talk about Guardian as is rather than what it was ?
I think that’s a bit of a generalisation. Sometimes he is, just as often he isn’t. But we’re all entitled to our opinions and I doubt we’ll agree.
Of course it's a generalisation but I'd align with him on Gaza and the current Labour party for sure. I wouldn't align with him on economics though. Doesn't stop him being mostly right side of the debate.
But compare his moral compass to slavish nature of the rest of the columnists - probably apart from Monbiot and Aditya Chakrabortty they're all raving market loving liberals!
But we've all got our perspectives.
Oh yes, the Guardian. As I scrolled through this morning one headline summed up what appears as a slow news day in the Guardian, because even the US and UK at war in Yemen barely registers with the Guardain and you have to read half way down the article to find British jets took part in the strikes. Anyhow the headline to sum up the day:
"Editors’ picks: 5 ways to incorporate a puffer jacket into your wardrobe – in pictures"
It's so cosy reading the Guardian in the morning. 🙂
you have to read half way down the article to find British jets took part in the strikes.
Strange, that fact is in the third paragraph of a long article (29 paragraphs or so) on the matter on my versions.
Wow a headline in the fashion section is about fashion - who’d have thought it.
they’re all raving market loving liberals!
Mainstream paper has mainstream views shocker...I should write headlines, I'd be ace at it.
It does what I’d rather all papers did… report the news and reflect on it from many different positions. It only looks Left Wing compared to other papers because that breadth of coverage includes people left of centre. The Independent used to do the same before it was wrecked, and the Times sort of still does (but with a narrower range and more right wing weighting than the Guardian). Other papers just pick a position and ram it home, hard… with most doing so from a position to the right of whoever is in government, whatever the party or parties in power.
This for me is why I subscribe to The Guardian.
I don't need media that I 100% agree with, but I (and all of us IMO) need media we can trust. Currently they're the only MSM doing this (I'm ignoring the likes of Private Eye and a multitude of YouTube channels I also trust), therefore I want to financially support them to ensure there's a chance they can continue.