Look I'm no fan of the guy but in this instance I don't give a damn about his politics.
Your thoughts? Worth reading as it compares his approach to the direction of a consortium including Airbus etc.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52043767
Hope they are more reliable than the vacuum cleaners from before 2010, old charity I worked for had loads of broken ones handed in on a regular basis! 😆
The government have produced this spec for a minimum ventilator. I would have thought Dyson would be able to make them - however doesn't dyson make everything in the far east?
Seems to be conflicting info on when they will be available. I read early April.. which seems completely unrealistic.
If he can pull that off then all is forgiven for his stance on brexit..
Dyson is a stand-alone company and can take decisions quickly.
A consortium, by it's nature, cannot respond as quickly - think management by committee.
The fact they are doing something is the important part of the message.
Hope they are more reliable than the vacuum cleaners from before 2010, old charity I worked for had loads of broken ones handed in on a regular basis!
We have 3 between us, FIL and SIL, 2 DC04's and a DC07. Needed a couple of roller bearings and a belt changing between the lot of them. Old ones are tanks.
Even if they only worked for a year WGAF? They are needed now and so long as they can be build in the volume required and are relaible enough that's all we need.
doesn’t dyson make everything in the far east?
From the article.
It hopes to build the ventilators at scale from its UK base in Wiltshire
Presumably even if most of their production is far east they still have suitable machinery in the UK for building prototypes etc which can be scaled up.
PS Has Brexit still got to be brought into everything?
However, it estimates that the NHS will need at least 30,000 to deal with the potential flood of virus victims.
So we're nowhere near the worst of it yet 🙁
If you read the news report, it confirms production will be in Wiltshire which was in UK last time I looked.
PS Has Brexit still got to be brought into everything?
Well, it’s why the offer of ventilators from Europe was turned down, one would presume, and why this particular company was chosen instead. Pretty obvious which ones will be ready first, and at scale, so there must have been other criteria. The Dyson plan is high risk and the smell of political motivation is hard to ignore. It’s not the only source being used though.
Are Dyson in the medical devices business already?
If not I'd expect them to be surprised by the regulatory hoops they'll need to jump through compared with regular consumer leccy goods.
Still I'm sure sir James knows what he is doing...
"It hopes to build the ventilators at scale from its UK base in Wiltshire"
There's a difference between building and manufacturing. Can't build anything if you aint got the bits.
GTech are trying to make one too
There are some interesting videos on Twitter of the designs
There’s a potential G-Tech ventilator as well which is an interesting design
https://www.gtech.co.uk/ventilators
Presumably even if most of their production is far east they still have suitable machinery in the UK for building prototypes etc which can be scaled up.
All their engineering development and prototyping is carried out at their place in Malmesbury, plus they’ve got an engineering school with apprentice training on-site, so producing things like ventilators to an existing spec shouldn’t be an issue; I think Ford in the States is producing ventilators, and military manufacturing companies as well, can’t think of specifics off-hand.
A ventilator isn’t that sophisticated a piece of equipment, they had furniture companies building fighter planes during the last war, a ventilator shouldn’t be too much of a challenge to a precision engineering company.
Any ventilator from a new supplier will be subject to testing and approval before volume production so....potential to fail and, therefore, a risky strategy.
Applies equally to Dyson as it does to other new suppliers.
I believe there are different types of ventilator and the current focus is on the most basic type but could be totally wrong.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/23/carmakers-make-nhs-ventilators-coronavirus-uk-government-nissan-rolls-royce
Totally missed out on the UK not accepting ones from the EU. Link anyone?
Sorry to go off topic.
lurpak - gov have stated that supply chains must be transparent and will be reviewed as part of approval process.
Parts will have to be air freighted as the criticality rules out sea freight.
How robust are the supply chains and what has been done to secure supply?
What about supply chain capacity?
Has any of this been mapped?
kelvin - what's your source for asserting UK will not accept ventilators made in EU?
What about ventilators from far east?
That's not clear; it says UK not joining Brussels scheme but does not state 'not buying from EU countries'.
The NHS will buy wherever they can - and would be irresponsible not to.
If there hoovers are anything to go by then they'll break in half just by looking at them
they had furniture companies building fighter planes during the last war
What do you count as a war? Afghanistan? Iraq? Falklands? Malaya? Suez? Korea?
The G tech solution is very impressive. And I think will be the solution. Read it. It uses physical rather than electrical control to inflate a bag. No electric parts. But I see one potential flaw.
The ventilator is driven and controlled entirely from the hospital oxygen supply without the need for electricity.
If your bed is in the middle of the Excel building. That is going to need a lot of oxygen bottles. I suspect they have that in mind. I am impressed by it. They’ve shared it and I can see why.
As for certification, in time’s of crisis, you would be surprised what is possible. Regulation of medical devices, therapeutics and interventions is always balancing benefit risk ratio. This ratio can change dramatically and the approval process changes with the need. That is reality.
The Dyson solution will be elegant, complex and unreliable. Gtech have nailed it. And they built my son’s favourite electronic toy 20 years ago (a spelling frog if you want to know).
Dyson aren't designing it on their own, it's a partnership with TTP, a Cambridge based design consultancy who have experience in medical devices. I'm sure Dyson also have access, either here or abroad, to the resources to make it, like injection moulding kit.
Airbus, GKN and Meggit are changing UK production and using metal additive manufacturing to produce Meggit’s existing ventilator design at scale. We’re just going through trials to prove the AM produced parts are safe for patients and use with oxygen.
That G-Tech unit looks incredibly simple . solenoid, Syringes , return springs , half a dozen JG speddfit fittings and some clear hose. The bladder has to be an existing medical item , but the recirc of O2 as enrichment is genius
Surely BOC could get a road tanker of O2 to Nightingale ? Rather than K cyclinders , there must be ways to repurpose cyro CO2 units but I am unsure of the pressure differential between liquid C0s and 02. Might be flow problems if demand is high ,icing of regs, although heated ones are available for CO2
Your not getting compressible oxygen into a CO2 tank.
Threads are wrong for a start and I can't see anyone filling it when it goes against all the industries safety practices.
Do the new devices will look good, be expensive, and break easily ?
I thought F1 teams were starting to make ventilators ?
Tesla solution is to partner with existing manufacturer too.
Gtech type solution is short term, bang them out by the thousands and hope they don't need to be used whilst the more sophisticated models get built.
A ventilator isn’t that sophisticated a piece of equipment,
Errrmmmmm
Even the minimum spec one is a pretty complex bit of kit. A full modern vent is very sophisticated. they also have to be robust as nurses are notorious for breaking stuff and reliable.
I rather suspect “minimum spec” is about to be redefined
Along with the ‘minimum standards’
There has been a minimum spec developed for this crisis. Its a much less sophisticated machine than the usual stuff but its the minimum useful spec
I rather suspect “minimum spec” is about to be redefined
Along with the ‘minimum standards’
and with good reason. I don't think a free for all is forecast but when they're moving body bags out of the back doors of the hospital to the local ice rink which has been commandeered as a morgue because the crematoria can't process the dead fast enough, some bloke with a clipboard at the front door moaning about procedures is going to get moved aside fairly quickly.
These are not normal times. The risk-benefit ratio is vastly different compared to normal and taking a calculated punt on some high quality manufacturers being able to deliver something that is good enough in these times - where do I sign. As they're hooking me up to it I won't be demanding to see its CE marking and BSI certification.
No plan survives first contact with the enemy - or as Iron Mike put it...
I thought F1 teams were starting to make ventilators ?
They're part of one of the consortiums (consortia?) - possibly the Meggit one. I know a lot of progress has been made.
@singletrackmind
BOC depot currently operating 24/7 producing cylinders for medical O2, order placed this week for 5 figure more medical O2 J cylinders over the next few weeks.
I'm half expecting wards to be full of Mr Creosote types who've just gone pop.
PS Has Brexit still got to be brought into everything?
Apparently so, seems a tad stupid to turn down the offer of getting your hands on more ventilators for the pile as opposed to some currently not existing ones.
I’m sure that they will be banging out these cheap mass produced home grown ventilators as the world really does need this type of thing, er yesterday.
The point is that those very basic "bag squeezing" machines really are no good. Hence the minimum spec I posted above. thats a lot simpler and easier to make than a normal ITU vent - but anything less simply will not have significant benefit
Ahh but putting out the message you’ve ordered 10,000 from that familiar name Dyson name reassures the public everything’s going to be fine.
Yes, I saw that. I’m amazed they’ve turned down ANY offer, including the EU one.
That guy on newsnight also said he is supplying kit for the Nightingale- sounds like a lot more than 4000 camp beds in a conference hall. Rumours of another one in .Manchester, plus one in Birmingham.
If it works well enough to keep people alive, even just to buy time to get them on to a "proper" ventilator, I really don't care if it's been made by Rolls Royce or Fisher Price
Apparently so, seems a tad stupid to turn down the offer of getting your hands on more ventilators for the pile as opposed to some currently not existing ones.
The EU ones dont exist either (yet). We're just not joining the procurement plan.
It's anybody's guess which route would get us more ventilators the quickest.
