Unfortunately there are no super fights at super middle for GGG or Canelo ... the supermiddles are doing another Super6 tournament to try and gather interest.
Light Heavy is where its at at moment ... but neither guy would be big enough; not even a super-roided Canelo could juice that high.
i though this was apt photo posted up on twitter of one of the judges leaving the arena
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absolutely ridiculous. Was very impressed with GGG , the fights reminded me of ward / kovalev. Keep in mind these guys blasted Khan and Brook inside the distance. Granted they might have been a bit more respectful of each other and brook / khan were blown up
Did Canelo stay below the 170lb limit ?? He looked massive at the start of the fight compared to GGG.
Watching it again now. GGG clearly won this by 8 rounds. He spent most of time stalking Canelo, resisting the he counter punching with ease.
That judge has form.
I love watching GGG he just stalks his opponents and doesn’t care if he gets hit cos he can take it. Was a bit disappointed with Canelo. Didn’t think he did enough counter attacking that I was hoping to see other than 1st couple of rounds and maybe the last couple when he looked as if he’d realised the only way he was going to win was to KO him. When he did hit GGG he just shrugged it off.
We need someone that’s going to go head to head with GGG. That would be an awesome fight but is there anyone out there brave/good enough?
GGG controlled the ring much better, but was vulnerable to Canelo's uppercut early on. Defended better as the fight went on but could have worked the body a bit more. I think they both got what they wanted (making bank on the rematch).
Draw's not a bad result, but I'd say GGG imposed his will better in this bout and should dominate in the rematch. Can't wait for it! Impressed with Canelo. I didn't rate him much going into this. Everyone knows about GGG's iron chin, but Canelo can sure take a punch too.
Some great fighters out there right now who actually want to fight instead of chat shit (Floyd arguably for not fighting Manny until it was way past its sell by date). Lomachenko, GGG, Usyk. Future's looking good!
If it goes to cards expect a robbery.
I'd feel slightly smug, but:
A - I think everyone knew this would be the case
B- I'm actually feeling slightly depressed by the whole thing.
What middleweights would you rate higher than Hagler then? And who is in your P4P top 10 of all time? Bit strange having Hagler 3rd best middle - but only just making the top 30 all time.
SRR and Monzon would be one and two.
I don't think I'd need to think hard to find another 18 boxers better than him, so he doesn't make my top 20, but top 30 yes.
Top 10 in no particular order would be something like..
Sugar Ray robinson
Ali
Duran
Greb
Sugar ray Leonard
Armstrong
Monzon
Fitzsimmons
Chavez
Louis
Guessing Tyson doesn't make it becuse of his post prison sans Cus D'amato record 🙁
Guessing Tyson doesn't make it becuse of his post prison sans Cus D'amato record
You think Tyson makes a top ten all time p4p list??
I could only pick a list of my favourite fighters, not a pound 4 pound list, cos this would just have to be based on their records, as, for example, I've only seen 1 Monzon fight; Greb fights are poor quality film and same for Fitzsimmons - very limited viewing opportunities. And if you go by records, then surely Mayweather and Marciano have to be in there...
I guess most purists would not agree then. Pound for pound lists are as subjective as favourite fighter lists.
But few fighters I've seen evoke the excitement Tyson did when he burst onto the scene. Plus like the above poster said, if it's records only, then you can't not have Mayweather in there.
And if it's records as well, then Ali had some shocking losses. So yeah, discount Tyson's "problems" and he's in there. In fact, hasn't Ali said he considers Tyson one of the greatest heavyweights?
Agree its subjective. I'd have Floyd about 15th
I based my list on what I know about the sport, opinions of others, and records. If you just discounted all the guys you haven't seen colour footage of on YouTube then it's not an all-time list, and would look very very different.
Bit unfair on Floyd. Boxing is supposed to be about hitting and not getting hit and he's got the latter down better than anyone surely? Plus before his hands gave out, he was a pretty exciting fighter to watch and even afterwards he figured out how to win convincingly which shows his intellect and adaptability. Like Ali later in his career.
And Tyson, anyone else in your list with 44 KOs? Genuine question from me.
In the age of professionalism would all time lists still be relevant? I guess in boxing it would because it throws up more rags to riches stories than other sports because of the nature of it.
Still, to get this back on track. When's the rematch? Folk are saying rematch posters were on sale literally right after the decision was announced!
So yeah, discount Tyson's "problems" and he's in there
Really?? Genuine question, who did he beat in his 'prime'.
And if it's records as well, then Ali had some shocking losses
Difference is that ali's shocking losses came when he was shot to pieces after a glorious career
Edit - I don't think putting Floyd as a top 15 fighter could be considered unfair.. Not many lists would have him so high.
Still, to get this back on track. When's the rematch? Folk are saying rematch posters were on sale literally right after the decision was announced!
I kinda hope ggg tells them to do one.
Strange about a rematch - can't get excited about the prospect, now we know how they kind of cancel each other out.. If Alvarez had a capability to work every round like he did the first minute of the 10th, he could do it. Don't think he has the stamina though.
Would we see a Ward-Kovalev II.. I don't think so.
At least this is a rematch people want to see, so I hope it happens!
It's all subjective but I would have Tyson at the very top of the list . I have never seen a boxer who's opponents were visibly scared of him . And to those who say who did he fight who was in his prime I would say who did he avoid? Sure it went tits up towards the end but so did a lot of boxers careers but in his prime nobody could live with him .
It's all subjective but I would have Tyson at the very top of the list
😆
tpbiker - Member
If it goes to cards expect a robbery.
I'd feel slightly smug, but:A - I think everyone knew this would be the case
B- I'm actually feeling slightly depressed by the whole thing.
What middleweights would you rate higher than Hagler then? And who is in your P4P top 10 of all time? Bit strange having Hagler 3rd best middle - but only just making the top 30 all time.
SRR and Monzon would be one and two.I don't think I'd need to think hard to find another 18 boxers better than him, so he doesn't make my top 20, but top 30 yes.
Top 10 in no particular order would be something like..
Sugar Ray robinson
Ali
Duran
Greb
Sugar ray Leonard
Armstrong
Monzon
Fitzsimmons
Chavez
Louis
You do realise that Ray Robinson lost the middleweight title quite a few times? and Greb was a middleweight too ... so how come he makes the all time P4P top 10 ... but outside the top 3 in middleweight??
Did anyone watch the undercard fights of the Billy Joe Saunders fight?
The young heavyweight Dubois? looks a great prospect. That last punch 😯 glad AJ Carter was ok.
DezB - Member
Greb fights are poor quality film and same for Fitzsimmons - very limited viewing opportunities. And if you go by records, then surely Mayweather and Marciano have to be in there...
Actually there is no fight film of Greb.
If old time boxing reports are to be believed - Ezzard Charles should be regarded as one of the best ever middleweights, unfortunately like a lot of black fighters back then he never got the title fights he should have, and had to go all the way to heavyweight for opportunities.
You do realise that Ray Robinson lost the middleweight title quite a few times? and Greb was a middleweight too ... so how come he makes the all time P4P top 10 ... but outside the top 3 in middleweight??
I thought Greb was a light heavy, but a google tells me I'm wrong.
As for Robinson, yes I know he was a great middleweight, but I feel his better work was at welter. he was 120 -1 or something ridiculous. So overall better than hagler, but perhaps not at middleweight (IMO)
Sure it went tits up towards the end but so did a lot of boxers careers but in his prime nobody could live with him
towards the end is being a bit generous
Kind of went tits up before he was sent to jail.
Ok until Buster Douglas proved he was beatable he was certainly a formidable fighter . And from all accounts he hadn't trained or lived anything like properly before that fight and still would have knocked Buster Douglas out but for a very slow count from the referee . If you are looking for the best Queensbery Rules type of boxer then it certainly wasn't Mike Tyson but I still stand by my opinion of him because he was head and shoulders above the standard of other heavyweights of his generation .
he was head and shoulders above the standard of other heavyweights of his generation
Hardly praise. The 80s heavyweight scene was abysmal.
"Peak" Tyson's best wins were a retired Holmes who openly admits he only took the fight because they were paying him $10 million, and a petrified Spinks in possibly the worst performance I've ever seen in a title fight.
I have a Tyson box set in front of me right now with every one of his fights. The guys he was knocking out for fun were absolute bums.
There's no doubt he was ferocious but he's not even in the top 10 heavyweights of all time never mind the best pound for pound boxer of all time
I think the thing with Tyson was that he was very different and so aggressive and he came along at a time when the heavyweight division was crying out for a star. He was certainly one of the most exciting boxers to watch.
Tyson practically trained himself once he left Kevin Rooney - he gradually went down hill from there on; but I'd still rate Tyson as the best heavyweight ever on his day ... maybe that's just because he was the dominant heavyweight as I was growing up; similar to how the older boxing fans still insist on Ali ... and before them Louis. Maybe in 20 yrs time people will be arguing the case for Joshua
[i]Actually there is no fight film of Greb.[/i]
Makes it even harder to list him!
Tyson beat Berick and Holmes who both beat Ali.. 😉
Holmes was out of the ring 2 years and 38 when he lost to Tyson. Holmes fought Ali when Ali was 38 and pre fight medicals said Ali should not be given a license due to speech slurring and numbness and tingling in his hands.
Can't recall much about Ali v Berbick other than it was his last fight, Ali that is, so would have been days shy of 40th birthday.
There is no comparisons to be made.
I agree that Holmes certainly was well past his best when he fought Tyson . Michael Spinks not so but as has been said he went into the ring terrified of Tyson and that kind of fear is something no other world champion has ever put into his opponents . The rest of the heavyweight division wasn't poor it was just that Tyson was way above their level and at the end of the day you can only fight what is the best fighters available as opponents . Or do people think that you need a career defining fight like Ali Frazier , or Leonard Hearns ?
DezB - Member
Actually there is no fight film of Greb.
Makes it even harder to list him!
Harry Greb almost always makes it into the best middleweight ever lists - which considering there is no actual fight footage of him is a bit silly. His win over a young Gene Tunney, and numerous fights with the most avoided black fighters of the day are the reasons why.
Boxing myths get handed down through generations. Some people repeat them - and they get taken for givens by others. The biggest example is the Ali myth ... a myth so well established that even his opponents are given legendary status/prowess; but look at old fight footage and you`ll see that most of the best names were pretty average at best ... certainly as bad as some of the opponents they dismiss of Tysons.
Got to give Ali respect for beating Sonny Liston twice who seemed pretty formidable and George Foreman who had previously destroyed Joe Frazier .
Got to give Ali respect for beating Sonny Liston twice who seemed pretty formidable and George Foreman who had previously destroyed Joe Frazier .
Yep, foreman (mark 1) was an absolute beast...
I'd of liked to see how a prime tyson got on with the likes of Lewis and Bowe (appreciate that his prime was before that pair established themselves so theoretical)
I got the impression that if they could stand up to tyson for the first 4 or 5 rounds then both would have beaten him.
Well it's all hypothetical but given that Lewis was knocked out by Oliver McAll and Hasim Rahman I have to suspect that it wouldn't have ended well for him against a prime Tyson . Bowe was , in my opinion not quite as good as Lewis and probably would have gone the same way .
But look what Lewis did to Rahman when he took it seriously. IMO Lewis is underrated.
Yes Lewis avenged both of those defeats and was a great world champion , not least for the dignity with which he conducted himself out of the ring . He beat up a past it Iron Mike but I fancy in his prime it would have ended differently . All speculation and means nothing though does it .
Lewis's defeats certainly count against him but he is far better than anyone that tyson ever beat.
I give him a free pass for the 1st Rahman fight, he was clearly massively out of shape and unprepared. You saw what happened the 2nd time.
Mccall I'm not sure you can say he was unprepared, he was young, motivated and in his prime. Just got hit by a great punch. (whether he should have been allowed to carry on as the champ is up for debate)
I personally have lewis slightly above tyson, certainly his record is better, he beat better fighters. But Head to head would be an absolute pickem
Which kind of highlights the issue with P4P all time lists. We are comparing apples with pears, especially at heavyweight. Not many people would ever rate lewis or tyson over Louis in a p4p list for example, but I'd put good money on both winning head to head. Louise was about 15 stone, dont think Ali was much bigger. Even tyson, who was pretty small for a modern heavy weighed well over 16.
I do realise this thread has completely gone off topic! Maybe a boxing thread is required, similar to the UFC one.
Seem to be a few posters on here who know there stuff, and I never get tired of bickering about who would beat who in theoretical match ups!
Holmes was out of the ring 2 years and 38 when he lost to Tyson. Holmes fought Ali when Ali was 38 and pre fight medicals said Ali should not be given a license due to speech slurring and numbness and tingling in his hands.
Can't recall much about Ali v Berbick other than it was his last fight
Oh ffs mate, don't you know what a WINK means??
Oh ffs mate, don't you know what a WINK means??
technically kevin Mcbride is better than Ali...:-)
Exactly. And Danny Williams! 😆
Exactly. And Danny Williams!
you know what that means right?
Audley Harrison is better that Ali.
My world has officially been turned upside down. (although I always rooted for A Force, I just loved his optimism)
