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almost Messianic zeal
Whilst using eloquent words about the zeal perhaps you could throw in some facts to evidence your argument that we are wrong?
Again you need to
[b]explain why the actions of humans has no effect on this natural process particularly the [geologically /climactically speaking] fast release of all the stored carbon via the burning of fossil fuels and associated pollution.[/b]
OMFG i just watched the video. Stuff like that represent what is wrong with the debate about climate change - pseudo science, generalisations and emotive claims rather than discussion about the complexity of the issues.
*builds ark*
Exactly! We've got all the climate change bandwagon telling us that it's gonna get real bad unless we do something (in which case it's still gonna get quite bad) so where's the preparation for doing something about it?
Eg - the Maldives. Lovely place, but it's gonna go underwater. Maybe not all of it, but probably some of it. The government have an underwater cabinet meeting to draw attention to their plight unless all the world leaders come together and immediately reduce their emissions by a zillion percent or whatever. Are they really pinning the survival of their nation on that happening? Isn't somebody somewhere thinking 'OK we've got a population of eleventy thousand with this general skills and socio economic profile, what can we do with them?'.
CaptJon,
Are you saying that you think the video is what's wrong with the debate or shows what's wrong with the debate?
The video is an appalling attempt to convince people of what is happening. The politics of presenting an issue in that are incredible.
thepurist, the Maldives are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
All that evil nasty global tourism may mean that their islands are underwater soon
All that lovely global tourism is just about the only reason for their economic existence
Tough one.
In what way is it appalling?
It is time lapse photography of some of the world's major glaciers. The project is half way through. So far the glaciers have retreated at an increasing rate. If they spend the next half of the project advancing that will be captured on film too.
CaptianFlashHeart said
All that lovely global tourism is just about the only reason for their economic existence
Are you suggesting that the Maldives and the people who live there didn't exist before tourism?
Cap'n - that was just an example. We seem to be so focussed on (apparently) futile attempts to stop a possible cause of the issue that we're not thinking of how to deal with the issue itself. More like King Canute's approach rather than Noah's.
rightplacerighttime - Member
In what way is it appalling?It is time lapse photography of some of the world's major glaciers. The project is half way through. So far the glaciers have retreated at an increasing rate. If they spend the next half of the project advancing that will be captured on film too.
The project isn't a scientific investigation capturing/measuring glacier retreat. It is a project to help publics (which he greatly patronises at the end btw) understand scientific findings about glacier retreat. That you seem to have been confused about that (if i've understood your post correctly) demonstrates what is wrong with the presentation.
Who knows what is causing the climate change?
Probably a combination of many things, some man influenced, some not
Can we do anything to change it though? - I personally doubt we can, it'd be like sweeping up after a volcano with a dustpan & brush
RE: children dying - we all die one day, why worry about it so much? (this doesn't mean that I don't believe in climate change, just that there are other ways to think about it - does it matter if the human race no longer exists?)
cycling community.
If it existed I'd want it banned. Luckily it doesn't.
Yes, we all die one day.
Put your money where your mouth is and try crossing the road with your eyes closed at least once a day 😉
CapnJon said
he project isn't a scientific investigation capturing/measuring glacier retreat. It is a project to help publics (which he greatly patronises at the end btw) understand scientific findings about glacier retreat. That you seem to have been confused about that (if i've understood your post correctly) demonstrates what is wrong with the presentation.
Why don't you go and actually read my opening post. It tells you why I posted the link to the presentation.
BTW, just in case I've made a mistake, and maybe misinterpreted the data relating to the glaciers shown, you know the ones that you can actually see being filmed over the course of the last few years, could you tell me whether they are advancing or retreating?
RE: children dying - we all die one day, why worry about it so much?
Are you trolling? Because if you are it's in poor taste. If you're not then I think you've got something sadly lacking in your life.
Why don't you go and actually read my opening post. It tells you why I posted the link to the presentation.BTW, just in case I've made a mistake, and maybe misinterpreted the data relating to the glaciers shown, you know the ones that you can actually see being filmed over the course of the last few years, could you tell me whether they are advancing or retreating?
Will do. Got to go and teach now - will respond later.
Are you trolling? Because if you are it's in poor taste. If you're not then I think you've got something sadly lacking in your life.
Won't somebody think of the children!?
They are the future!
They are the future!
But the future is bad. Therefore children are bad. Ban children!!
Not if you teach them well and let them show the way...
Show them all the beauty they possess inside...
rightplacerighttime....they are melting you are right its all our fault ,and yours, now best switch of your pc and only use it when you absolutely have to as that is also not helping matters, also i suggest your children use only wind generated power for their entertainment devices and never take them anywhere unless you walk, all you need to do is explain what will happen to them, im sure they will have a long and happy life... 🙄
Could children be converted into bio-fuel? Solves two problem at once.
The funny thing is, I keep posting about this stuff on here because I kind of expect people with a love of the outdoors to be more concerned about environmental matters than the inhbitants of some other forums I visit.
Heaven help us.
But if any of you have just joined in and didn't see the original post, now lost in a sea of drivel, it's about a photographic study of glacier retreat.
[url= http://www.ted.com/talks/james_balog_time_lapse_proof_of_extreme_ice_loss.html ]Extreme Ice Survey[/url]
Nags Nogs ... What exactly is your point?
I am concerned about the outdoors i love everything about it, i adore Mountains with a passion, i even sometimes fill up with emotion just looking at them, are we not to be allowed to go there anymore because going to enjoy them is killing our world.....
In the grand scheme of the universe we and the earth as a planet are so irrelevant its untrue, go crush a grain of sand and see if it makes any difference to the whole of the earth, such is the impact the end of earth will have on the universe...
The funny thing is, I keep posting about this stuff on here because I kind of expect people with a love of the outdoors to be more concerned about environmental matters than the inhbitants of some other forums I visit.
Your hysterical drivel isn't going to convert anyone into a tree hugger.
I can't imagine why you'd think mountain bikers would be greener than average. All that aluminium, magnesium and titanium is far from green. I burnt enough diesel to feed a family of 3 for a year at the weekend, just to go play on a bicycle.
But with just the one kid I'm greener than you by the sounds of things.
I kind of expect people with a love of the outdoors to be more concerned about environmental matters than the inhbitants of some other forums I visit.
stop visiting them then you are wasting resources.....
5thElephant,
Being "green" isn't a competition. We're all in the sh1t together whether any of us like it or not: you, me and all our kids.
I'll keep doing as much as I can to get "us" out of it, including coming on here to tell people about what I think is important information - if you think its drivel, don't listen, fine - quite why you have to adopt the macho posturing though I don't know.
I'll keep doing as much as I can to get "us" out of it
Good man. In that case I'm going to fit in an extra biking trip to Wales. Thanks for taking one for the team.
anotherdeadhero - MemberI've ceased worrying about it, nothing meaningful will be done until hundreds of thousands are dead and millions disposessed. By then we will have to use our ingenuity and what resourses we have left to survive, in some way, the time is past for averting the disaster via technology.
+1 for that.
Only when it starts to have a significant impact will something be done about it.
"children dying - we all die one day, why worry about it so much"
You don't care about the needless suffering and death of others?
You're not a moral person then?
[I don't believe that 🙂 ]
Theory of human influence on climate change is very inconvenient for us who are responsible for it. The short-term solution is to ignore and deny it.
I am voting for Gordon at the next election, he will sort it all out for us, happy days. What could possible go wrong?
😉
Climate change industry has become the new religion - "Scientists" (clergy) trying to convince the general public that something exists to the contrary of the evidence of their own senses,increasingly aggressive when peoople don't see it their way, and quite happy to fake the data and compeletely undermine their own alleged professinal ethics when the evidence doesn't suit them.
I've just started reading through the leaked emails and code from UEA ("climategate").
It's pretty shocking to be honest.
It puts the IPCC report into a very different light.
Please go and watch the presentation linked in the first post of the thread and stop repeating the same POVs that we've all heard on both sides of the argument a thousand times before.
Which of you have actually watched the video?
I've see the video to Thriller but I don't believe in zombies.
5thElephant said
Good man. In that case I'm going to fit in an extra biking trip to Wales. Thanks for taking one for the team.
Don't thank me, I'm not doing it because I like you.
Norton, so that's a no then?
Climate change industry has become the new religion - "Scientists" (clergy) trying to convince the general public that something exists to the contrary of the evidence of their own senses,increasingly aggressive when peoople don't see it their way, and quite happy to fake the data and compeletely undermine their own alleged professinal ethics when the evidence doesn't suit them.
Oh dear. Are you actually serious?
They won't let me watch it 'cos they insist on using bl00dy Flash. I'd have to get my computer booted up unnessessarily which could contribute to global warming, dying puppies and kittens and all the little children.
To those of you who claim it is a new religion ignoring facts can you post up these facts rather than just give your polemic? You are correct when you assert that a number of people are quite preachy [as indeed is Dawkins] BUT it does not make them wrong.
There is near universal acceptance within the [b]scientific community [/b] as there is with say evolution, Big Bang, Einstein Theory of Relativity, smoking causes cancer do you doubt these and get annoyed because it is difficult to get funding to counter the scientific orthodoxy? Call these believers zealots?
The so -called climate gate is summed up quite nicely in this quote
The American Meteorological Society stated that the incident did not affect the society's position on climate change. They pointed to the breadth of evidence for human influence on climate, stating "For climate change research, the body of research in the literature is very large and the dependence on any one set of research results to the comprehensive understanding of the climate system is very, very small. Even if some of the charges of improper behaviour in this particular case turn out to be true — which is not yet clearly the case — the impact on the science of climate change would be very limited."[24
When faced with this level of ignorance and denial it is no wonder some people get annoyed …like Dawkins does with Christians and creationists.
Watched some of that, lots of pictures that prove that the glaciers this guy visited are indeed melting away. One of them shows a lovely picture of retreat since 1850 and it is quite a lot.
However
I'm sure the anti AGW camp are probably prepping a similar presentation to demonstrate why it can't be AGW and that 1850 marks the end of the little ice age etc etc.
I've watched a few of these things now from both sides of the debate and as someone with only GCSE science they are all pretty convincing. I do sometimes check out the presenters and to be honest the pro-AGW lobby usually wins hands down, the deniers are often easily shown to hold poor credentials - that was until all this stuff about UEA hit the headlines... it seems that since we can't trust what they and therefore the IPCC had to say their work needs to be scrutinized again, but can't well not properly as they have dumped the orginal stats...Great... looks like we are just going to have to wait and see, on the bright side we are now due a period of change in solar activity. If we start getting proper winters again then that might help prove/disprove some of the theories doing the rounds.
One thing I will say is that people always look to make ourselves the most important things around - earth at center of the universe, god is very interested in us etc etc. I'm sure that if the majority of scientists claimed climate change had nothing to do with man made emissions then many out there would still claim it was mans fault. Either the scientists are wrong or it in places like Indonesia it is gods desire to punish us etc etc.
What I can't abide are those who don't think we should cut down on pollution or those who think because they have bought a hybrid car they are doing their bit. It is like the power stations that burn wood - great we are using renewables, bad it is being shipped 6000 miles!
near universal acceptance within the scientific community
That's exactly the kind of rather patronising thinking that worries me - you are asking me to accept something I have no personal evidence for just because of [u]near[/u]!!! universal acaceptance by the members of a "community" who know better than me.
I'm not saying your view is necesasrily wrong, but I couldn't be made to believe in God just because the majority of the Christian community do so...
If there is such a thing as the "Scientific Community" then like all communities they will be bound by certain dominant conventions and beliefs - hence the current suppression and obstruction of evidence that gets in the way of those beliefs.