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My point is I am not gay
Fine
I don’t fancy blokes
Still fine
and by my definition an M>F trans is still a bloke, so sex with them would be outside of my wants.
What's your definition? If you are attracted to the female form, and this individual matches your type - you probably fancy them. If you get talking and hit it off then you probably fancy them a bit more. Then they tell you they used to be male. What exactly would put you off fancying them? Nothing physical has changed, nor has their personality - they've been up front with you. The only thing that has changed is in your own head.
I’d imagine it would depend if the person was looking to have a relationship or just a bit of fun. If the attraction is strong enough to mean the former is a possibility i’d say a little more has changed.
The only thing that has changed is in your own head.
Well renowned most powerful erogenous zone. He is a man.
The only thing that has changed is in your own head.
Well renowned most powerful erogenous zone. He is a man.
Lets say that science invents body transplants, and shortly after Christina Hendricks suffers a massive stroke and dies but the brain of this transgender individual is transplanted into her body. You meet her, get along great, she tells you she used to have a male body but she had a brain transplant. How do you react?
Oh now this is getting interesting. So, you’ve met someone - you find them attractive based on their body (all of it), their conversation etc etc and then you find out they are trans. So, what is it you are turned off by?
1) what you personally think
2) what you are scared other people might think of you?
I’m beginning to think it might be (2)...
I think that given a choice, I wouldn’t want to be gay. Having to deal with bigoted asshats in society aside, girls have all sorts of lovely bits to play with that would otherwise be denied to me. And if I wanted to play with boy bits, well, I already own those.
oh my lovely!
Honestly: when I realised i was gay, it was drama, and I did some stupid ass stuff. now? I'm as happy as a lop, I get to play with all sorts of lovely bits that would otherwise be denied to me...Could it be that we just all agree that girl bits are just nice to play with? haha
anyway, for what it's worth Trans people are about as brave as it comes in my book, forget soldiers and all that shit, trying to get people to accept you for who "you" actually are, seems to be the hardest thing in the world, my life is a piece of cake by comparison
There are some older gay women i've met who have some radical stuff in their heads, mostly because of the pressure they faced as gay women in the 50's or 60's or whatever, I think. They were told, mostly by men, what they could and couldn't do. Some of those women see my generation as having it easy and somehow "betraying" the fight that they went through. To them having a Trans tell them about what they "can and can't" bang smacks of the same patriarchy they've faced for a long time. Me?...if you're getting juicy, then go for it, right?
she tells you she used to have a male body but she had a brain transplant. How do you react?
I'd think "does this technically count as a threesome? get in" 🙂
Given that all of us have an element of Neanderthal and other hominid DNA in us, it clearly shows that Humans will happily mate with other (similar) species . So whats the big deal about what bits or lack thereof someone has? Gender is such a fluid thing I cant believe that we in the west still get so hung up about it. Hell, in various civilizations there were a number of recognized genders rather than stupid bible based binary silliness. the Native Americans happily had the "two spirit" principal and practiced same sex marriages and joinings without any bias at all. Such a shame that culturally we went for the puritanical instead.
So - as this thread has gone a bit off topic - with lots of people's prejudice floating around, a question, to all those who are saying they don't want to have sex with M>F trans...
You meet someone, you don't know they've changed genders. You click, like no-one you've ever met before, you have the best laugh, the best time in their company. You also think they're hugely attractive. You end up sleeping together, you have the best, most mind blowing sexual experience of you life. Not just by a little bit, this is screaming the house down with pleasure mind blowing.
They then tell you they used to be a man, there's no other signs of their previous gender, other than their confession. No one else you know, knows, or will ever find out...
Do you continue your relationship or cut off your nose to spite your face?
I suspect allthegear has nailed it -
2) what you are scared other people might think of you?
I’m beginning to think it might be (2)…
How authentic is a post op mini? Asking for a friend
An Austin, BL, Rover or BMW one?
Rachel
Oh now this is getting interesting. So, you’ve met someone – you find them attractive based on their body (all of it), their conversation etc etc and then you find out they are trans. So, what is it you are turned off by?
1) what you personally think
2) what you are scared other people might think of you?
I’m beginning to think it might be (2)…
Have you read any of my posts? Do you think I am scared of what people might think of me? I have revealed all kinds of personal shit that really only you Rachel have been as candid. Also not once have I dared to stray into "what gay/trans/lesbian people think" territory which is standard male white gay curing homophobes. Its none of my business and not something anyone can know. So don't presume to think you know what I think other than my honesty.
Cougar isn't gay, he hasn't even admitted to at least trying, I have. Why are you not giving him shit? If I was single and informed and on a one night stand maybe I would try it (I doubt it given what I know about myself) , but it would be in the same box as my previous gay experimentation. Just to note, men do not make me horny, I know I've tried, so I am not in a position to know if I am ashamed of my gayness as you assume.
Do you continue your relationship or cut off your nose to spite your face?
FFS this is getting stupid, I was talking of one night stands, do you think I value one quick shag so much?
In my 20's I had a relationship with a girl who was stunning, blew my mind with her mind and we really clicked. Over about 6 weeks we spent every minute together. As I actually got to know her I discovered she was narcissistic and all of her mental concepts were received wisdom, in the end I actually really disliked her and couldn't wait to end it. .
Love is just a chemical trick initially anyway. I have been with my wife for 25 years and our love has grown stronger. I tell the kids this all the time when they want to ask about what love is. It takes time to build a solid relationship. The concept of "falling in love at first sight" is just dangerous bollocks.
So I think in the end I would only be able to see the person as a man. Same with the Hendricks thing someone proposed. I think the feminists call it lived experience? The mind is probably the most attractive thing about anyone, and someone who has lived as a man, I don't know if I could ignore that.
I was talking of hypothetical one night stands, and as I said many times, my worst reaction would be a bit of disappointment perhaps anger. But I am not claiming rape and I have disclaimed that here, its just a preference. I would prefer to know. I don't see why this is a big deal.
They then tell you they used to be a man, there’s no other signs of their previous gender, other than their confession.
So they have been through puberty and lived as a man? Doubt they'll not be any other signs then. You may as well fling in they had a jackpot winning euromillions ticket as well then if you're going to make up bullshit scenarios.
You meet someone, you don’t know they’ve changed genders.
It’ll be pretty damn obvious once you’ve sobered up.
It's a funny old place, is the STW forum.
On the one hand we have the Gnusmas thread which has raised North of seven grand for a forum member in need.
And on the other, well, here we are. Bloody hell.
And you are right here in the middle of it.
So, what is it you are turned off by?
the fact they weren't born with a vagina would be the turn off.
I get that you don't want to sleep with a trans woman. I don't like it but I get it.
What is unacceptable to me is that you'd claim rape if she didn't tell you.
What I don't understand is why the m>f trans seem so reticent to just be happy to let potential partnes know? As with my autism example, Ibthink you have a responsibility to be transparent so personal decision are informed. What is wrong with that?
You don't understand a situation that you've just invented in order to argue that you're not able to understand it? Who's being reticent about anything here?
I'm on the spectrum too. If dating, I'd bring it up if and when if became relevant. My opening gambit wouldn't be "hi, nice to meet you, my name's Alan and I'm Aspie."
I'm also vegetarian, a staunch remainer and have no truck with organised religion. Should that be my second sentence? I totally wouldn't want to shag a creationist brexiter.
I get that you don’t want to sleep with a trans woman. I don’t like it but I get it.
What is unacceptable to me is that you’d claim rape if she didn’t tell you.
Why don't you like it that someone doesn't want to have sex with a trans person? That is their personal choice and the fact you don't like it is quite disturbing.
I think not being able to give informed consent is unacceptable.
I don't want to have sex with a blonde. That's my personal choice. Should I expect a brunette to go "hey, BTW, I dye my hair" before climbing into bed with me? Shit, I've been raped!
Its not the situation, its just one aspect of the trans response to the situation. Thas your first fallacy. The rest of that sentence makes no sense. Its a shame to see you struggling Cougar. Your logic is normally pretty good.
Being blonde is not the same as being a different sex to the one you present.
That whole 'lesbian not queer' banner the protestors were holding up? They're disagreeing with this sort of thing:
https://www.autostraddle.com/how-to-have-trans-woman-lesbian-sex-with-a-penis-414839/
You lot all need to losen the fk up.
Id recommend an orgy, swingers night or better still a trip to Torture Garden.
You don't even have to join in, just expand your mind a bit & enjoy the show.
Taste the rainbow guys & gals & if you're wearing a gimp mask no one need ever know it was you....
Good grief Cougar! That's a bit different to a lesbian saying they don't want to have sex with someone with a functioning penis.
Cougar, lesbians don't want sex with a penis. For this, they're being called transphobic.
You can't compare sexual orientation (when did it start being called sexual preference) to preferring blonds/redheads/brunettes.
I don’t want to have sex with a blonde. That’s my personal choice. Should I expect a brunette to go “hey, BTW, I dye my hair” before climbing into bed with me? Shit, I’ve been raped!
if you really think that is remotely the same thing then you have a serious problem.
Your logic is normally pretty good.
It usually is right up until someone disagrees with me. (-:
Id recommend an orgy, swingers night or better still a trip to Torture Garden.
TG is certainly an experience.
Good grief Cougar! That’s a bit different to a lesbian saying they don’t want to have sex with someone with a functioning penis.
Of course it is. But I don't have the remotest notion as to why you'd think I was was suggesting otherwise, or where that argument even vaguely came from? Like, who even suggested that?
Nothing wrong with that kimbers, for those that want it there’s loads of freaky great stuff to try including getting more than 2 people involved. The rude bits of the same sex are nothing to be scared of.
Saying that, if you can’t understand why someone a bit more reserved might be a bit upset if the beautiful woman they just got intimate with turned out to be a bloke then that’s your problem. Everyone has the right to act as they wish and consider themselves whatever gender they want but you can’t demonise someone who believes your gender is fixed at birth.
As I said, I get that you don't want to have sex with a trans woman
But that woman IS a woman. They have just had medical treatment to correct a birth defect.
Now your hangup is being intimate with a trans woman. Supposing my hang up was being intimate with someone who had been successfully treated for cancer? And my friends hang up was being intimate with someone who had been successfully treated for an STD.
You want the trans woman to disclose her medical history or you shout rape. My friend couldn't give a damn about the trans issue but would shout rape if the history of STD's wasn't revealed I don't care about the trans issue or the STD history but would shout rape if I wasn't made aware of the cancer issue.
Do you not see how that looks? You have consented to sex with a person. Later, maybe years later you become aware of their medical history and their past wasn't what you thought it was. That history coincides with your hang up despite it not being an issue to many other people. That is not rape.
Unless you only sleep with people who give you full access to their medical and social history you will possibly be subject to surprises down the line.
If they don't volunteer that information then it's probably best that you ask anyone straight out before you take them to bed "are you transgender?". That should sort out any problems.
if you can’t understand why someone a bit more reserved might be a bit upset if the beautiful woman they just got intimate with turned out to be a bloke
Turned out that they used to be a bloke.
*applauds* boris
boriselbrus, is someone with a penis a man or a women?
Turned out that they used to be a bloke.
Nope, to many they are still a bloke, just one that doesn’t feel that way and has had surgery to look more like they want to. Good luck to them.
What boris says is fine and makes perfect sense if you believe that all trans women are female and no different to those born female. You only get to decide that for yourself though not for others. Of course there are trans women who have had all the transitioning treatment done during early years and know of no other experience, there are also those who grew up and lived as men and only transitioned in adulthood. There will be men who won't have a 'hangup' with either of those trans women and there will be men who will have a 'hangup' for both, or for one but not the other and everything else in between. It's perfectly reasonable and utterly bizarre that anyone would think it not.
But that woman IS a woman. They have just had medical treatment to correct a birth defect.
No they are not, at least physically so. It simplifies the issue and to demand everyone accepts this is not helpful.
boriselbrus, is someone with a penis a man or a women?
Is someone with a skateboard a man or a woman?
Nope, to many they are still a bloke
This is true.
But what people think has no bearing on the physical universe. Many many people think that Piers Morgan is a ****, that doesn't make him an actual female sexual organ.
There is a lot of wasted electrons on here trying to persuade people through some fairly dodgy logic hoopla that they are wrong by coming up with some false analogies.
We all understand the analogies and they are great and all, but they presuppose that the M>f trans is a female, and that is where we differ. The problem is that its a philosophical question more than anything, and it will probably never be resolved.The fact is that most on the "your sex is your chromosome side" are only really worried about it when it comes to personal relations, almost all of us have said we applaud and support everyones rights and would do whatever to help them along the way. However what we, personally, in our own bedrooms, choose not to do is surely not harming anyone else. To me it all pretty inclusive and highly tolerant. The intolerance here is those jumping through logical hoops trying to persuade us we are really secretly gay, or epic homophobes or prejudiced or whatever. You contradict yourselves with each analogy and just cannot face the fact that someone actually has a different opinion to you.
If Rachel and any any other trans people believe they are a woman or female or whatever the correct term is, that is good enough for me, I am in no position to contradict or disagree, I accept that they are what they say they are. That is their truth. But when it comes to my personal choice, I would prefer to not have sexual relations with a trans person of M>F change as my preference is F, and I am not convinced that for my personal sexual tastes they are really F. The only person that effects is me, me only, no one else. To that end I support the lesbians who are feeling oppressed that they also want to limit their sexual preferences to women who have not transitioned from men. It only effects each of those individuals.
The funny thing is here, we have not heard from any trans person who actually feels that people that don't want to have sex with them because of their body history, or whatever the term is, has been wronged. I would like to know how they feel.
And I still have not had a straight answer as to why disclosure in advance causes problems?
I'm assuming most of the contributors to this thread are men and (unsurprisingly) it's turned into a discussion about (having) sex.
You could do worse than pop over to the feminist chat board at mumsnet to see what an increasing number of women (and the lesbians in the pride protest) are concerned about.
This will be reported as a female crime.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/crime-caught-camera/tube-horror-women-man-attack-leicester-square/
This is not a level playing field.
Andrea Yearwood wins Conneticut State Championships
If they don’t volunteer that information then it’s probably best that you ask anyone straight out before you take them to bed “are you transgender?”
I suspect that will fix the problem as you won't be having sex that night. I was once asked "You don't have AIDS or anything do you?". I understood that she was trying to make sure there were no STDs but it took the moment away somewhat.