When I was 15, we went on a class trip to Quebec where, in one rural school, there was only one (very large) toilet facility containing urinals, toilet stalls, and sinks.
It seemed weird to us at the time, but the Quebecois kids just used it without thinking. Boys stood at the urinals pissing, and girls used the stalls. Afterward, everyone used the sinks.
Is this not something we could just do everywhere, and so avoid some of the political difficulties that have arisen in the wake of society's awareness of transgenderism?
What is the issue with well-designed, shared toilet facilities? Is it just a matter of what we get used to?
Afterward, everyone used the sinks.
theres no need for that!
Is this not something we could just do everywhere, and so avoid some of the political difficulties that have arisen in the wake of society’s awareness of transgenderism?
What is the issue with well-designed, shared toilet facilities?
The issue is they're shared - a more useful way of addressing the issue isn't gendered or non gendered facilities - its not having communal facilities. Theres no need or reason for the space to be shared - whether its public loos, changing rooms, hospital wards or whatever. Nobody relishes the idea of sharing their ablutions with others. We've just been building them that way out of habit.
The issue just vanishes if you get the design and build right rather than just change the sign on the door.
They introduced it in my old high school a few years ago, there was the usual cries from the terminally worried, but it works well I'm told. Although it's all stall affair.
There's a few bars I know that have the same thing, I feel for Women in those circumstances, Men's toilets are generally disgusting and I wouldn't want to sit anywhere near one. You'd hope it would cause Men to up their game a bit, but 11pm in Cardiff Bay? I doubt it.
I am all for gender neutral toilets, as long as the ladies have a ladies loo also. Sounds sexist (I'm male) but blokes don't care if women are in their loos, but women do care if men are in theirs.
my local pub had a great set up.
admittedly its a small place with no existing infrastructure to get around, but they had a door marked:
"Sitting down toilet"
and another for:
"Standing up toilet"
That was it. no gender, no judgement, just choose the door you preferred.
We’ve always had them in our house.
My daughter's school has communal toilets, there no urinals though - the walls are lined with cubicles (floor to ceiling walls between) with sinks in the central space and there's no wall dividing off the sinks area from the corridor.
Initial feeling was that it was weird (we fear change), but given how open-plan the shared space is, it means there's no scope for bundling people into the bogs for a kicking (was that just my school?), and it possibly peer-pressures people to wash their hands who might not bother otherwise, so I've no concerns.
Daughter told me she didn't like it the other day, but that's more because she feels self-conscious doing her hair with boys around as opposed to anything else.
Good god no - have you seen the queues outside the ladies at events - I'm getting to the age that I'd likely piss myself if I had to wait that long.
Or... In the words of my daughters non binary partner, one of the benefits is you choose the loos with the shortest queues.
blokes don’t care if women are in their loos, but women do care if men are in theirs.
This. The OP needs to ask why on mumsnet, you will be lucky to find a bloke on here who GAF.
...and yeah, we could rebrand male bogs as 'Unisex' overnight and leave the ladies as a ladies and solve a ton of problems. I'm in favour.
In practical terms it already happens - busy nightclub/sportsclub or busy campsite and you find women in the he gents and nobody ever complains.
We’ve always had them in our house.
That's not the same environment as a public loo is it, or do you allow unknowns to use your bogs at random?
In practical terms it already happens – busy nightclub/sportsclub or busy campsite and you find women in the he gents and nobody ever complains.
Point, the wife uses the gents at will.
I have no issue with it, I manage to share a toilet at home so fairly sure I can manage it at work or a pub.
Personally I don't see what the fuss is about?
and yeah, we could rebrand male bogs as ‘Unisex’ overnight and leave the ladies as a ladies and solve a ton of problems. I’m in favour.
That solves fewer problems that you imagine
That’s not the same environment as a public loo is it, or do you allow unknowns to use your bogs at random?
Whats the issue with washing your hands next to an unknown? It's not like you have to sit on toilet seat at the same time as a stranger is it?
Good god no – have you seen the queues outside the ladies at events
The exception being at a Top Gear live show where the gents queue was out of the door while the wimmins was empty 🙂
It is going to be a UK prudishness thing. Those foreign continental types seem more open minded, shared sauna's for example. When to a massive sauna in Italy once with around 100 people in steam rooms, sauna, splash pools etc,. with every walking around naked.
Me and wife were the only 2 from the UK group we were with who went in.
(the part where a big bearded German man slapped me on the thigh came as a surprise though!)
Whats the issue with washing your hands next to an unknown? It’s not like you have to sit on toilet seat at the same time as a stranger is it?
There is a huge issue with walking into a quiet public place at night on your own with only one in and out door . It is nothing like being at home in any way.
What is the issue with well-designed, shared toilet facilities?
There's a fear that men will get a bit Trumpy in a shared space, because to date having a picture of a woman on a door has been 100% effective in preventing blokes from walking through it. There's a similar transphobic narrative around how a bloke can "self-identify" as a woman and use the ladies facilities. I don't know about you, but if I felt like a spot of molesting the first thing I'd do is pop on a dress, shout "I'm a lady!" and head for the nearest toilets.
Manchester University has handled this well. The main facilities are all non-gendered, but they also have women-only loos for those who want it. You have to walk a bit further to get to them though.
My workplace has gender neutral toilets (London tower building). Some floors are specifically M&F toliets and others are neutral.
I prefer to use the M only personally, especially on sit down days when it could be a bit noisy!
My daughters school also has gender neutral toilets and she won't use them. Waits until she gets home, not ideal as she then ends up getting constipated. She feels embarrassed about wind noises and also finds the boys are "so unclean".
Like verses my daughters school and before that her nursery have them, never bothered me one bit and she doesn't bat an eye.
Came across unisex toilets once at one of the bars in Bath uni. Was amusing when the female that exited a cubicle at the same time as myself did a double take at the same time as I did. We both laughed it off as neither of us had noticed and the world kept turning.
There’s a few bars I know that have the same thing, I feel for Women in those circumstances, Men’s toilets are generally disgusting and I wouldn’t want to sit anywhere near one. You’d hope it would cause Men to up their game a bit, but 11pm in Cardiff Bay? I doubt it.
I wouldn't let it concern you too much, I've been assured that women are just as capable of making a sty of their toilets which I guess is even worse as the chances of missing should be slim to zero!
Last week, I went to an open day for my daughters secondary school that she will attend from September next year.
I was surprised to see that the toilets are open spaces on the side of the corridors. Along each side of this small open room are stalls. There is a large circular sink come fountain in the middle for washing.
Good idea I thought as kids cannot get upto mischief in the toilet (closed) rooms.
Shirley if the loos are gender free, everyone gets to use them whatever they deem their “sex” to be.
I agree with blokes loos being ****ing disgusting though. It’s an embarrassment quite honestly, it seems like some blokes just get their cock out and start pissing as soon as they open the main entrance door.... some blokes I wouldn’t share a loo space with if I had the choice.
One small point... whilst not toilet related, is the local swimming baths for instance. An old mate of mine used to be a center manager, he’d often say the women’s changing rooms were covered in all sorts of crap... quite what makes anyone want to leave used tampons lying on the floor is frankly beyond my simple comprehension.
🤮🤮👎
I was surprised to see that the toilets are open spaces on the side of the corridors. Along each side of this small open room are stalls.
Huh. I thought public toilets had to be double-doored by law (or building regs or some such)?
Men’s toilets are generally disgusting and I wouldn’t want to sit anywhere near one.
My brother used to work as a cleaner in Debenhams and he said the ladies toilets in there were generally disgraceful with some pretty revolting things wiped on cubicle walls a common occurrence!!!
Time to mention USA'n public toilet stalls without proper walls or doors (Houston Galleria - no doors at all). Strange since USA'ns are generally so prudish.
Yep my lads school has 'open' gender neutral toilets with traps around the walls and communal sinks in the middle. I needed to use them at an open day and was very wary of noises! but probably just because I knew there were loads of parents hanging around outside....
There is a huge issue with walking into a quiet public place at night on your own with only one in and out door . It is nothing like being at home in any way.
Silly me, I forgot that all men are sex pests and can't control ourselves at the sight of a lady washing her hands in a shared sink!
or, it could actually be a good thing as there would be double the number of people around so the chances of being on her own, and therefore vulnerable to sex pests, are reduced by half? Unless you think the picture of a lady on a bathroom door is the thing keeping the sex pests away?
my local pub had a great set up.
admittedly its a small place with no existing infrastructure to get around, but they had a door marked:“Sitting down toilet”
and another for:
“Standing up toilet”
That was it. no gender, no judgement, just choose the door you preferred.
That's discriminatory to women because it effectively gives men twice as many toilets as women.
It sounds wonderful and egalitarian at first glance but it's actually making the problem worse.
I have no issue with it, I manage to share a toilet at home so fairly sure I can manage it at work or a pub.
Personally I don’t see what the fuss is about?
Imagine your halfway through courting a member of the opposite sex in a bar, then need to alleviate yourself from yesterdays curry only to find them exiting the trap next to you once made enough noise to rival Odin's thunderclap coupled with the smell equalling 1000 decaying Jalfrezi's...
Somethings should remain private until a marriage certificate is signed.
Imagine your halfway through courting a member of the opposite sex in a bar, then need to alleviate yourself from yesterdays curry only to find them exiting the trap next to you once made enough noise to rival Odin’d thunderclap coupled with the smell equalling 1000 decaying Jalfrezi’s…
Err, women poo too. And based on living in a shared house with 3 women and now being married to one I can confirm they're just as disgusting, loud and smelly as fellas are.
Whilst fellas may pee on the floor, women have the additional tool of disgust, the used tampon.
Imagine your halfway through courting a member of the opposite sex in a bar, then need to alleviate yourself from yesterdays curry only to find them exiting the trap next to you once made enough noise to rival Odin’d thunderclap coupled with the smell equalling 1000 decaying Jalfrezi’s…
How do teh gays and lesbinums manage?
Here's the problem with modern society, there's so many categories of things that any attempt to get something politically correctly is fraught with danger. I was only thinking of "Willys" and "Not Willys" tbh.
I'm out.
WE've got a load of gender neutral toilets in one of our campuses. It's really useful, because it saved us a fortune in adding extra toilets.
my local pub had a great set up.
admittedly its a small place with no existing infrastructure to get around, but they had a door marked:“Sitting down toilet”
and another for:
“Standing up toilet”
That was it. no gender, no judgement, just choose the door you preferred.
That’s discriminatory to women because it effectively gives men twice as many toilets as women.
It sounds wonderful and egalitarian at first glance but it’s actually making the problem worse.
It's a pub - very few men are going to need a "sitting down" toilet, but it is provided for those who do, in a much more space efficient way for the building, as there isn't the solitary male trap left unused while women queue next door. Which in turn should leave more space and therefore more stalls for the women.
Outdoor venues and stadiums have (finally) in the last few years cottoned on to the most efficient and hygienic way to organise large public bathrooms for men is to provide a urinal with no door handle or controls to touch at all.
If it's all stalls then gender neutral toilets are a great idea, urinals stink anyway. They allow transgendered people to feel welcome and aid disabled people who may have a carer of a different gender to their own to use the facilities as well. They also require less floorspace than two separate rooms, so it's a win for business.
I can understand other women's concerns about safety but I've also seen women fighting each other in the ladies and the skirted figure on the door didn't protect them, someone walking in did which would be more likely in mixed loos. I hope it'll improve peoples hygiene too
for the people saying blokes make a mess of the toilets, i can 100% confirm the women are just a disgusting, if not worse (whenever drink seems to be involved at least)... i used to work in a nightclub and the girls bogs was equally as gross as the fellas on tidy up time... but with added lady specialties (and by that i mean used tampons)
Locally in France the ladies happily spill over into the men's zone whether it be in the men's showers at the swimming pool or toilets anywhere. However, men never spill over into the ladies' showers and very rarely into ladies' toilets.
It’s a pub – very few men are going to need a “sitting down” toilet,
have you noticed how much those urinals 'splash' back at you ?
And I've got a pretty desperate bladder with low flow rate so for a normal person they must return back to the bar well 'covered in piss'.
Combined with the fact that a very high percentage of men don't bother to wash their hands and therefore the door handle to get out of the toilet is also 'covered in piss and fecal matter' then gender neutral toilets sound like a pretty unattractive option for non 'males'
I am going to be british prudish and full of hangups and say I know damn well stage fright would get me if trying to pee in a urinal with women around. Nowt would happen. Thats my flaw tho
Recently trekking in Majorca and using the mountain huts they had mixed sex dorms. Made me very uncomfortable!
Again my issue tho
Not such an issue if its all cubicles
Our Uni has these, as does our local leisure centre. No problems.
As do most nightclubs after midnight. 🙂
I can only conclude that most of you who think that women have better bog etiquette than men went to single sex schools and have never had relationships with the opposite sex.
If you ever went to The Banshee in Manchester I'm sure you can confirm that the only issue with mixed bogs is trying to maintain your dignity whilst people are shagging on the sinks. 🙂
If you’ve ever stood at a urinal with feint absorbent trousers, you’d only ever use the sit down variety. I’m all for gender neutral toilets without urinals.
Bank holiday weekend they were shepherding the men into the ladies toilets at Gordano service station to cope with capacity. I didn’t see a single complaint from any of the ladies, just cheerful smiling and chatting.
If you’ve ever stood at a urinal with feint absorbent trousers, you’d only ever use the sit down variety. I’m all for gender neutral toilets without urinals.
Ahhhh - the perils of pissing/splashing yourself when in khakis.
As an aside, it saddens me that young women are being taught to feel embarrassed about their normal bodily functions. More princess shite.
It's a bit of that - and just being more socially aware than men.
We're uncivilized dude.
