[Closed] Geert Wilders

spoke some common sense maybe???

So - what's this guy done that's such a bad thing, then?

Apart from sharing his air time with some other narrow minded idiots?

Britain isn't an "Islamic country". So if he's got a problem with the way they do things in Islamic countries, why doesn't he **** off there and complain ?

He's just a naughty boy, saying silly things to get attention.

what does he do, like for a job??

his hair is quite funny though

his hair is quite funny though

Indeed.

And it's hard to imagine anyone more suited to be wearing a black SS uniform whist preforming homoerotic acts ...

[img] [/img]

i imagine flash looking like that............

No we're a Christian country...that's why we all exude brotherly love, compassion and forgiveness. F@#kin' nazis.

Britain isn't an "Islamic country".

funny pic btw LOL!

is he related to Gert Bucket?

Ernie you're sooo predictable. Given his country was invaded by Nazis the Dutchman may have issues with your insults...I think his point is the steady growth of Islamic ideology in the UK and the genuine threat it poses to democracy however much your ilk choose to deny it's existance.

I wonder how the "anti facist" UAF will deal with the planned Islam In The UK march? What's that chances they will pair up with the EDL? 😆

I still find it incredible how a democratically elected European MP ws initially barred from entering. Incidently has anyone seen Fitna?

Given his country was invaded by Nazis

Maybe he should have thought about that when comparing the Koran to Mein Kampf.

(On a separate topic: if the Nazis invaded Holland, how would you tell?)

I think his point is the steady growth of Islamic ideology in the UK and the genuine threat it poses to democracy however much your ilk choose to deny it's existance.

Gosh, you've got a point there. These muslimers are everywhere. There's been a 10 fold increase in the numbers of subversive, threatening islamista posts on this forum over the past week alone. We're being swamped. I even saw a GoreTex burkha on CRC yesterday. Why can't we all just be white and racist and paranoid.

God bless you enfht, it's people like you that make this country great.

In his interview he focused on the lack of freedoms that a more radical Islam promotes and the stated ambition of some Islamic extremists for a worldwide Islamic state under a form of Islamic law. It is this religious imperialism, combined with the very restrictive practices of more radical thinking that he is wanting to confront, especially in a secular and relatively free Western Europe.
I have some sympathy as I do quite like our liberal society, with all its inherent defects, but he needs to work on his use of common English - referring to Islam as "retarded" was not a bright move, even though the word may have been correct when referring to the lack of evolution of liberal acceptance in more extreme forms of Islam.

It does concern me that we will fight to allow some fairly offensive messages and protests from some sectors of our society but not from others - either they should all be able to put forth their bile and vitriol and let us pick it to pieces or the line should be drawn for all - no exceptions.

And before anyone piles into me and accuses me of being a fascist or some such nonsense, I am as liberal in views, attitude and behaviour as you are likely to find. It is just that I hate to see restrictions on the freedom of speech we have fought to have and to hold onto.

Right off for a ride - later folks.

DrJ

(On a separate topic: if the Nazis invaded Holland, how would you tell?)

My wife is Dutch and as such I have many friends and relations in Holland and like everywhere you get some and some but I'd say that on the whole they are a very friendly, polite nation of people.

DrJ - Member
(On a separate topic: if the Nazis invaded Holland, how would you tell?)

A very crap attempt at a joke.
The Dutch are great folk and have always made me very welcome.
I am sure they have their fair share of "Griffins" as does every country, but after what was done to them by the Nazis under occupation I would think many would be very offended by that remark.

on the whole they are a very friendly, polite nation of people.

On the basis of living there 4 years, I disagree. I find the Dutch to be the most impolite people on the planet, but maybe I was just unlucky.

I am sure they have their fair share of "Griffins" as does every country, but after what was done to them by the Nazis under occupation I would think many would be very offended by that remark.

Indeed - they had the highest percentage of Jews deported of all European countries (IIRC). We might wonder why that is.

DrJ - perhaps it was poor jokes and attitude towards them that may have contributed 😀

in Islamic countries if you are a homosexual, you are likely to be beaten or killed. If you are a journalist and you ask the wrong questions, you'll be arrested and if you are an "apostate", you'll be executed."

Would it be any different in a country run by fundamentalist Christians?

ambition of some Islamic extremists for a worldwide Islamic state under a form of Islamic law.

... a "Caliphate".

Would it be any different in a country run by fundamentalist Christians?

I suspect not. How many can you name?

Intelectually he raises some interesting points. However he does not do it in a useful manner. His infamous film just generalises from the extremists to imply all Muslims are some kind of threat. There are plenty of ridciolous quotes in the Bible and we would not generalise from the Westboro Baptist Church to all Christianity. It is a reasonable point to question the human rights records (or I gues more accurately states that are Muslim such as Saudi Arabia, Iraq etc) and the lack of Western freedom and tolerance to non beleivers in Islamic counries [ yes I have lived/travelled in one/some so it is real]. I am not siting at home worried about what Islam will do next to overthrow our Western democracy/civilisation. I dont beleive they are everywhere and most will [if they can be @rsed] try to persuade you with words about their faith/religion rather than bombs and violence.

PS LOL @ trailmonkey

Why can't we all just be white and racist and paranoid

Except its not a race issue is it? Its a religious choice. As such it can be criticised and challenged.
Unless your understanding of Islam is that it is only practiced by people of a different "race"? which is not true, however even if it where it would remain a free choice and as such not race issue.
I suspect you have shot yourself in the foot!

Religion rearing it's breathtakingly stupid and ugly head again!

I say vote for freedom and abandon all this nonsense (all faiths).

Even the most moderately religious person is silently discriminating in their piety and self-righteousness (whatever their faith). They look at the world with a jaundiced maner, one governed by bizarre and frankly, incorrect ideas.

I think the main problem is that some people are unable to think freely and are just plain rubbish at understanding science. So they just make up what they don't understand with fairytales. They are completely ignoring logic, abundant evidence and robustly proven facts. Are you one of these? I pity you if you are!

You don't need a religion to do good by your fellow man, or to live a morally correct life! Altruism is a naturally occuring phenomenon which is driven by selfish needs. Even colonies of insects operate by such rules. Our species has had the wherewithall to build the civilization we have today. If we had rigidly stuck to our religious beliefs and discredited and punished the work of scientists and engineers every time they weakened the plausibility of religious dogma, we'd still be living a barbaric life in mud huts with a life expectancy of not more than 30-35 years!

Without this mumbo jumbo, there would also be no more people confusing religious discrimination with racial dicrimination. The two issues are separate in my view and it is tiring to here all the same old objectors' lines. Just like it's tiring to here references to Hitler in response to someone who holds a controversial opinion. Guys, challenge controversial ideas, don't shout them down! Silencing people indicates you know you have no wish or ability to pull apart a flawed idea, or that you just know you have no counter argument.

Religion is just divisive. The problems start when one group feels excluded, threatened, or disadvantaged and then conflict follows. When will we ever learn?

It wouldn't be so bad if these "faiths" were based on something more than a pile of dusty old supersticious storybooks which are routinely misinterpreted in a "cap fits" manner to suit some other agenda!

As for the Dutch guy causing a stir, well why can't he raise some valid points? Why should his voice be silenced by a minority who protest loudly about their precious faith? The reason is that they know their book of rules is flawed, but the same book grants them permission to behave unreasonably in order to "defend" their faith.

I don't think you will ever get through to anyone so brainwashed and blinkered. This applies to all people of all faiths who get too obsessed by religion. The big question is: How do you tell if an individual is moderate, or extreme in their beliefs?

Being a tolerant liberal society has allowed all this nonsense to take hold.

yes reading your post the two words that sprang instantly to mind were
[b]tolerant liberal[/b] not extremist at all 🙄
They are wrong but I think tolerance may be a two way thing?
Also,like dealing with terosrists and criminals, we need to take the moral high ground not be dragged down to their level.

Can't stand extremists of any creed be they Christian, Muslim, Jewish or indeed aetheist. I firmly believe in tolerance but that has to work both ways. Geert Wilders makes some very valid points about Islam. As has been said before, show me an Islamic state where the citizens of all backgrounds enjoy the same freedoms as we do in the west.

show me an Islamic state where the citizens of all backgrounds enjoy the same freedoms as we do in the west.

show me a Jewish state where the citizens of all backgrounds enjoy the same freedoms as we do in the west.

Two wrongs don't make a right DrJ.

Two wrongs don't make a right DrJ.

Absolutely, and I don't seek to excuse the excesses of Islamic states. My point was just to highlight that this discussion would be dismissed as anti-semitism if the subject was Israel.

dismissed as anti-semitism if the subject was Israel

Judaism is also a choice. Its a set of beliefs that claim the earth is only a few thousand years old. That (and many others) should be challenged. I dont believe that is racism, however the Jewish lobby is powerful and has been able to associate religion with race.

Pah!!!
I thought this was gonna be a guitarists thread.

Great widdlers!

🙂
IGMC

But surely anti-semitism is hatred towards the Jews (as in race of people) not Judaism?

I may be wrong but I don't think that's the same parallel as what Mr Wilders is saying about the religion of Islam - is it?

I may be wrong but I don't think that's the same parallel as what Mr Wilders is saying about the religion of Islam - is it?

Thats right. Wilders is criticising Islam as a choice. Muslims are not a single race, Islam is practiced all over the world.

Absolutely, and I don't seek to excuse the excesses of Islamic states. My point was just to highlight that this discussion would be dismissed as anti-semitism if the subject was Israel.

surfer - so how does the above statement make any sense?

Tyger. You need to ask the person who made it.

"We should be proud of our tolerant culture because in Islamic countries if you are a homosexual, you are likely to be beaten or killed."

If the Dutch fascist has come to Britain to express his concern for the plight of homosexuals, then it would make sense for him to denounce the most homophobic political party in Britain, ie the BNP.

There are some choice homophobic quotes from BNP leaders, including the one by Nick Griffin when gays expressed their outrage after a BNP member carried out Soho nail-bombings. He accused them of quote :

[i]"flaunting their perversion in front of the world's journalists, [and had] showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures disgusting"[/i]

Then there is Mark Collett, former chairman of the Young BNP and current Director of Publicity, who described gays as :

[i]"AIDS Monkeys", "bum bandits" and "faggots" [/i]

The BNP's deep hatred of gay men, as well as of black and Asian people, is well known. But Geert Wilders wants to come to Britain to denounce Islamic countries, not the BNP. Because he is of course extremely good mates with them :

[url= http://bnp.org.uk/tag/geert-wilders/ ]Nick Griffin Joins Petition for Geert Wilders[/url]

Geert Wilders like all Fascists throughout history and the world over, is not only a liar, but of course also a hypocrite.

.

enfht - Member

Ernie you're sooo predictable.

I bloody hope so.

I will [u]always[/u] denounce Fascists and Nazis. Of that, you can always be certain.

And you enfht, are also utterly predictable................[b]"enfht rushes to defend a Fascist shocker"[/b]

I will always denounce Fascists and Nazis. Of that, you can always be certain.

Do you think that the perceived threat (rightly or wrongly) to our current Western freedom is where he's really coming from?

Ernie - I often agree with you but not this time.
Where did the BNP come from?
I thought the discussion was about the issue he has with the increase of radical Islam and its intolerance.
Let's not turn it into another anti BNP rant please - we all know about them and probably feel the same way as you, this is a bigger issue and debate. The BNP are so small as to be insignificant - radical fundemental religions of whatever flavour are bad.

I thought the discussion was about the issue he has with the increase of radical Islam and its intolerance.

Well since Britain is not a radical Islamic country there is no need for him to come over here to lecture us.

Where did the BNP come from you ask ....... well did you read the OP ? Apparently he said quote :

[i]"We should be proud of our tolerant culture because in Islamic countries if you are a homosexual, you are likely to be beaten or killed."[/i]

So whilst he's over here, if he really is that concerned about the plight of gay men, all is not lost (the British public can't do much for gays in say Iran) he can denounce the British National Party, which is indisputably the most homophobic political party in Britain.

And it is particularly relevant because the BNP thinks that he is a really great guy - did you actually click on my
link ? It takes you directly to the BNP website. Do you know of any other political party in Britain which supports Geert Wilders more than the BNP ?

Of course he won't denounce the BNP because he doesn't give a toss about gay people being nail-bombed by BNP members. As I said, he is a liar and a hypocrite. The BNP connection proves that.

But surely anti-semitism is hatred towards the Jews (as in race of people) not Judaism?

How does THAT make any sense?

Wilders/BNP Connection Ernie?

You mean the BNP support some of his statements? Hmm, thats a bit of a dodgy interpretation, given the BNP/Labour policy connection (‘British jobs for British workers’,'gulags for slags')

or are you suffering from the old selective memory problem again?

I mean, lets be fair, the total number of deaths from terrorist attacks by Christian Fundamentalists in the mainland UK in [u]the past decade[/u]? oh, yeah, nil - so, which problem presents the greatest threat to our society at the moment?

[img] [/img]