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Years ago (mid 2000's) I was looking at buying an Audi S2 Avant. 1995/1996 era, Rare, 230bhp, tunable, 4wd. Mint ones were £5-6k.
Now, 15 years later you're looking at £20k plus for one, that's if you can find one. There's one for sale on eBay for £25k.
Gutted I missed out.
I wonder if the BMW i3S might be a future contender. Carbon chassis, lightweight, great handling, limited run.
Surely it would need too depreciate first? Don't think you've quite got the hang of this.
You'd want something 10+ years old so about at the lowest price it'll be, something that car people will buy IE a performance version, rare.
Panda 100hp is my choice. Evo favourite, £4k gets a low mileage minter.
Surely it would need too depreciate first?
True - I was just thinking out loud.
Panda 100hp is a terrible little car on anything other than smooth roads or a track. I've owned two and it was by far and away at its happiest with all the seats removed going around Castle Combe. The wheels are too small and wide with very low profile tyres meaning every little bump smashes the suspension which is also very hard and very brittle. There's also little to no weight over the front axle and so without modifications to the camber which make it eat tyres, it's very understeery, easpecially in the wet. Going up 1 tyre size and reducing the pressure makes it better, but it's not strictly legal...
Neighbour of mine has a mint 924 in his garage. Nicely restored and just kept under cover. He thinks it’s a good investment, but all depends what someone will pay for it obviously.
XJS?
Panda 100hp is my choice. Evo favourite, £4k gets a low mileage minter.
That's jogged a bit of an idea with me: Suzuki Ignis Sport. Evo loved those too as they're basically a Swift Sport underneath - another one to consider!
We replaced the Twingo with an r53 cooper S. it’s a fabulous looking car, but sadly has cost a lot over the past year. It might be a future classic because it just looks so good.
But I’d like a classic Renaultsport Clio Trophy if I could leave it in Agatha instead of the streets in Bristol! Actually I really want a Megane R26.R but we don’t go there.
In my biased opinion, it's hard to look past BMW Z4's.
Styling wise they have aged very well. Parts appear to be plentiful and reasonably priced, possibly down to sharing many with the E46 3 series.
The 3 litre engine is lovely to drive and is pretty bombproof.
A decent E85 roadster could still be within budget?
Panda 100hp
it’s very understeery, easpecially in the wet. Going up 1 tyre size and reducing the pressure makes it better
Huh? That's interesting cos mine has the different tyre size, but does not understeer in the dry. I reckon its biggest issue is the lack of suppleness in the suspension making it simply not follow the road too well. But maybe I've been spoiled on a growing up diet of Pug 205 and Fiesta mk4. Either way I'm going to look at new shockers and springs at next MOT.
The original Micras will have dissolved by now I think, unless someone has kept one in a hermetically sealed box.
A close friend of mine drives what used to be her mum’s Micra, it’s been in the family from new and it’s a ‘T’-reg. Paint is fading a bit, because it’s red, but at the last MOT I think it cost her about £60 to go through. She was driving it from Colerne, about ten miles from me, up to Kendal when she was managing a YHA centre, she’ll be driving it over to Pembroke soon. Remarkable little car.
Someone mentioned the Puma 1.7 Zetec, real fun little car, especially if driven in a ‘spirited’ fashion, the induction noise is amplified by a plastic box under the bonnet! However, the 1.7 motor was developed by Yamaha, and they only made 100,000 of them. Most went into Pumas, but some went into Fiesta Zetec S cars, the ones with the stainless steel mesh grill, and that motor needs to be well looked after. It requires a special grade of oil, and service and oil changes need to be kept on top of. It doesn’t have iron liners in the bores, it has a nickel-silicon plasma coating on the bore walls, like Hyabusa motorbikes, and some Porsche motors, IIRC, and if the coating gets worn, that’s it pretty much trashed. Although it’s possible to get the coating redone, but that’s not gonna be cheap! Given plenty of money, I’d love a Racing Puma, but I’d get the motor taken out and a 1.5 out of a Fiesta ST put in. More power, easier to look after. Have the original motor fully checked over and crated up.
BTW, the 1.7 isn’t a frugal car, I used to get about 33 mpg out of mine, once I put roof bars on to carry the bike, I think it used to average about 25-27. May have got more out of it if I’d driven like a granny, but where’s the fun in that? 😎
Going back to my 2 Z4 roadsters the E85
The 2.0 is like Olivia Newton John in You're the one that I want video in her white dress
Whereas the 3.0 is where she is dressed all in black leather
Both very good but one you want to drive all the time
I think the later E85 3.0si is the better car. It's heavier, but has more power and is a bit easier to live with and looks better with better front and rear lights. It also comes as standard with the m-sports seats, which you really do want. I've had an original 3.0se, a 3.0si Coupe and a Z4MC. The Z4MC is great, but the gearbox is really rubbish from 1st-2nd and it's expensive to run for limited mileage. There's no denying that the noise with the Guppe-M is worth the hassle when you get the chance, but you really need a lot of open road to have good fun with max noise. The 3.0Si is the sweet spot, even if a little more money.
Not a recommendation for the OP but I wonder if my Merc will have collector value at some point. Seems to be a lot of love for the estate version in some circles but the original version of the CLS seems to be more classic-worthy. Plus nine’s only the 4cyl.
:facepalm:
I’m kicking myself for not buying a mk1 Focus RS in 2017 for £10.5k. Now look at the prices. Anything sporty (or not even sometimes) with a Ford badge is generally a safe bet for future mental value.
With the way the internal combustion engine is going, cars with interesting engines might be worth considering as future classics. There’ll be folk who still want them. Many already mentioned: RX8/rotary, anything with a Busso, flat-6s in Porsches, Chevy small block V8s, etc. I’ve gambled on a Chevy V8 powered “Vauxhall”, hoping the extra running costs compared to something normal will be offset by zero depreciation (counting on it!) - so far, so good. Won’t get one within the OP’s budget though.
TheDTs
Full Member
XJS?
Posted 5 hours ago
My father treated himself to one three or four years ago, very good condition 1993 Celebration Convertible, the 4L straight 6 version. Very nice and has gone up a bit since he's had it. We'll looked after, dry stored and only adding around 3k miles a year to it.
However, my 8yr old Transit has gone up far more in the last couple of years🤣
Right I've put my more sensible hat on for one after looking at piston heads at the weekend
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-spottedykywt/renault-clio-172-exclusive-spotted/45155
Clio 172, either the mk 1 or early mk 2 before they turned into the 182. They aren't as sort after as the 182 or 192 so prices seem alrigh for cheap frills. Most parts will still be cheap as lots of clios were around in shopping car form. Just lots of rust (but that goes with any old car).
Less sensible, guy at work has just bough a citron roselie for around 2 grand but is a project. Nice way to potter around in in summer
Fiesta zetec s mk 5 came as a 1.6, the puma came as a 1.7 (as well as 1.4) with the racing puma 1.7 at 150 bhp (this is the engine that would be transported into fiesta given half a chance over the standed 1.7).
Skoda fabia vrs, they have a cult following in the vw scene. Small and fun and will be cheap to run being a deiseal.
I think the biggest problem with any future classics is unless you bough a one owner or low mileage example to keep the originality there you will struggle to get something that will go up in price. And a year is not a long enough time to get the price to jump. Find something you want because you want it and enjoy it for what it is.
Fast, cheap, reliable. Pick two.
BMW E87 130i?
Last of the naturally aspirated BMW straight sixes (the N52). RWD, manual, surely a future classic.
By coincidence I need to sell mine, engine pretty much run in now at 185,000 miles. I've had the car since 75,000 miles and I'm only selling as I'm moving abroad. 🙁
Full service history, looking for £3,000 but open to offers. Based near Weston-super-Mare.
Aston Martin Cygnet https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201071092372
Good call on the e87 130i. Passed me by as I had the same drivetrain in the bigger e90 body. Great engine. Mrs a11y had a e87 116d and - although gutless - it was nice/fun to drive.
Clio 172, either the mk 1 or early mk 2 before they turned into the 182. They aren’t as sort after as the 182 or 192 so prices seem alrigh for cheap frills. Most parts will still be cheap as lots of clios were around in shopping car form. Just lots of rust (but that goes with any old car).
I read that PH article this morning - 172s of any shape aren't as cheap as they once were. Still potential for appreciation but only low-mile/best-of ones. I've looked on and off for years (I owned a ph2 172 years ago). Biggest challenge with those, I suspect, is finding one that's not been driven like a rental.
this is the engine that would be transported into fiesta given half a chance over the standed 1.7
Yes you probably could, but why on earth would you?
Take a £20k "modern classic", take the engine out, scrap the rest, and put it in a £500 shopping trolley?
This thread seems to be full of people either hopefully recommending what they've got, or not looking at prices and recommending stuff that was cheap 10 years ago!
Nothing leggy will ever be worth big money unless it's incredibly rare unfortunately.
The RX8 is a lovely car, beautiful chassis, great balance, but I don't think they'll ever be worth much. By all means buy one and enjoy it but don't you'll ever make a tidy profit.
12 or so years ago I had the chance to buy a childhood dream car, and I did. I love it, but it hardly drives any more. It will do again some day and I sort the niggles. It's gone up in value by about as much as I've spent on it, but if I'd bought one of the other two options my head was turned by that would have only cost me a few grand more, I'd be sitting on about 50ks worth of NSX or R32GTR. But I didn't. But I still love my rotary engine, which I've devalued by tweaking to my desires. Ah well.
Buying cars as an investment is only really worth it with dead certs imho, like RS Fords, low run GT Pork, low volume NA M series BMW, end of run NA hatches etc. And none of them are in my budget, and all will need keeping for a long time.
I wish my wife had never sold her DC2 7 years ago, for many reasons, (not just the prices now) I wish I'd never sold my s14a 200sx with what they're worth now, but they'd all have a load more miles on them and I wouldn't have been able to afford the cars that came after them, so meh.
I'm glad I sold the AW11 though, that would just be a seat and a pile of oxide by now
To make good money on a car what you need is a time machine. I know someone who bought a mk1 Sierra Cosworth for 5 grand, with much ridicule from his friends and colleagues for spending all that money on an old banger. Now it's in mint condition with 60k on the clock and probably worth as much as the house it's kept in. He couldn't have chosen a better car even though the idea of investing money in old Ford's would have been laughable at the time.
Some of the cars on my personal hit list...
Mk2 Focus RS
Impreza Type-R
Lancia Delta
Celica GT-four
S2 Exige
I like cars that used to be considered 'achievable performance cars'. You know, fast stuff for poor people with big turbos and crappy interiors.
It's taken me so long in life to find a half decent job and get a house with a garage, all these cars have almost doubled in price and then for an extra kick in the nuts, they've jumped completely out of reach in the last couple of years.
I don't even bother looking any more. The best I could do at the minute would be a GT86 or a modified MX-5 and I just can't get excited about them.
To make good money on a car what you need is a time machine. I know someone who bought a mk1 Sierra Cosworth for 5 grand, with much ridicule from his friends and colleagues for spending all that money on an old banger. Now it’s in mint condition with 60k on the clock and probably worth as much as the house it’s kept in. He couldn’t have chosen a better car even though the idea of investing money in old Ford’s would have been laughable at the time.
Yea, but has it really outpaced what it's cost him to keep it for 20+ years?
Say 3% on a savings account, 20 years makes that £9k.
Renting a council garage is £13/week, £13500.
Car tax - £280/year, £5600
Insurance - £200 on a classic policy? May well have been more when the car wasn't a classic, still that's £4k.
MOTs - £2000 (£50 + a tank of fresh petrol)
Tyres (replaced every 6 years due to age at say £400) £1600
So assuming that absolutely nothing breaks or goes wrong in 20 years, you don't track day it, don't got for any too spirited a drives, don't park it in a supermarket car park, and it doesn't rust and the paint go funny in a dusty unheated council garage block. And not including all the other ancillary jobs that need doing based on age not miles (cambelt, coolant hoses, anything made of rubber)
That's about £35k (+ the other bits mentioned)
And it's now worth about £50k
It's still better Vs an ISA, but it's not the 10x return on investment it looks like.
The OP doesn't really want a future classic anyway, just a car that's fun to drive for a year and won't lose value when sold, unless I've read it wrong.
I own a Corrado VR6 Storm, which I bought years ago because I'd always wanted a Corrado VR6 and I liked the Mystic Blue colour, which was only a Storm option - limited edition of 500 cars, half of them in blue. Has rarity premium value for some VW nutters, but nothing else. They now sell for somewhere north of £20k in good condition, which is a lot more than it cost me.
Appreciating classics are actually a bit of a pain in the backside to own. They're appreciating because there are fewer and fewer of them around. Parts are now mostly obsolete from VW, so second hand spares have become ridiculously expensive. At which point more remaining Corrados get broken for spares because it's more profitable and the whole thing becomes self perpetuating. Small things breaking become disproportionately expensive.
Really you want something that's properly common for day-to-day driving. Or at least cheap to repair - Mk2 Golfs are mostly that, but also small parts like sunroof mechanisms are getting scare and expensive.
Anyway, my point is that for a year-long fun car, you don't actually want to own a future classic, or a semi-classic, you want something that's fun but cheap and easy to run and repair, all imho etc ymmv, but in an expensive way 🙂
The OP doesn’t really want a future classic anyway, just a car that’s fun to drive for a year and won’t lose value when sold, unless I’ve read it wrong.
Yep which is going to be most old cars that are now worth £5k - they have gone down to a low price so won't change a lot more over 12 months. The cost will be in any repairs/maintenance that needs doing which is down to luck/wise buying
Badlywireddog has it right.
That’s about £35k (+ the other bits mentioned)
Wow there's some pretty wild assumptions based on a few sentences of information. I'm not giving you his life story but I'll confirm that the car certainly wasn't rusting away in a council garage for 20 years at a cost of 14k!
Appreciating classics are actually a bit of a pain in the backside to own.
Also this. I had my fun when you could trade Capri's, Manta's and E30's for a few hundred quid a time. The best car I've ever had as an all rounder was my recent Fiesta ST and even that stood unused most of the time.
I don't really need a car but I don't know how to stop wanting one. Currently making do with the other half's Yeti and I hate it.
Renting a council garage is £13/week, £13500.
I’m not giving you his life story but I’ll confirm that the car certainly wasn’t rusting away in a council garage for 20 years at a cost of 14k!
Well, obviously, but this sort of approach is fairly standard practice when evaluating investments. A bit like imputed rent.
On the other hand I'm sure lots of people 'invest' in cars with the same degree of financial rigour as my fiancee 'invests' in a new pair of shoes 😀
The thing is worth 'investments', you quite often don't tax them every year, don't mot them every year, and you certainly don't keep them in a damp, leaky council garage. So costs like that can be struck off immediately.
My 'classic' sees the road every 2 or 3 years. It certainly hasn't cost me that calculation up there!
Bloody has in fixes though, and as said above, the more valuable they get, the more costly the parts. I had a right shock when I was looking for parts recently after not touching it for a few years!
If you want and investment, you don't use it much. If you want a car to use, it's not an investment.
But actually importantly to the context of the op, unfortunately any 'cheap' car now won't be an investment, as prices are just so high.
Better off investing in guitars or something. Easier to store and you can play them at home without devaluing them.
Saying that, my C4 Picasso will be a right good investment. Bought last year for £3500 on 16k miles, and the lowest mileage at similar age sold on ebay had 70k on the clock and sold for £4400.
One sold at a similar price to what I paid had but >100k miles on it
And I don't do many miles at all.
and you certainly don’t keep them in a damp, leaky council garage. So costs like that can be struck off immediately.
Best not think about what either the cost of having a garage costs on your mortgage, or the lost income of what a nice dry garage for someone else to keep their classic car in would have cost then 😉
And I say that as someone who can with a bit of a squint convince myself the classic in mine appreciates by more than the annual cost of keeping it running 😂
I'm going to pretend that's not a completely reasonable point, as I take a break from pricing up insulation to stop the huge condensation problem I have in my damp, leaky garage.
Off to put new tyres on our 51 plate MX5 (first of the SVT engines in an MX5) tomorrow.
Not that fast, but fast enough. Not that much grip, but enough. But the balance and the way you feel part of it is superb (and how you feel it in your own body when something needs maintenance - it’s like you’re injured).
Value? - no idea, probably not much.
Future classic? - who cares, it’s for enjoyment and transportation not investment.
We bought ours new in 2001 for our honeymoon - took the boat to Spain.
Marriage and car still great fun.
Work colleague has ten classics: TR2, V8 MG B, 2 x GT6 etc.. Says worth £100k and is his retirement fund, having owned them all for 30 years.
Except he has rebuilt all of them at least once, the MG and GT6's need rebuilding again. I don't think 8 of his cars have moved under their own power in decades. And he spent over 20 years building various garages to house them in.
As investments they appear sound when talking in the pub. As a hobby? Excellent - he is never bored of them.
Dunno if OP is still reading but due to an unplanned development the mk1 TT 225 Quattro I recently bought will be going up for sale shortly for around half his stated budget.
Are (not so) stealth ads allowed?
911 996 C4S. Superb drive. Turbo body + light bar will make it classic
Flying Ox - I may well be interested in your TT - gimme a PM if you're selling. Think we're relatively local to each other
Nissan 350z
911 996 C4S. Superb drive. Turbo body + light bar will make it classic
Sounds great, can you link to where you can buy them for £4.5k?
I couldn't help myself, I've been looking for an Impreza all afternoon. It's absolutely never going to happen at current asking prices and these things never come down so I guess I'll have to live without one forever.
If you could buy one for a reasonable sum of money I'd be more willing to deal with all the grief they'll inevitably throw up. I actually enjoy some of it but I'm not paying 20 grand for a 20 year old Japanese time bomb.
sharkattack
Full MemberI couldn’t help myself, I’ve been looking for an Impreza all afternoon. It’s absolutely never going to happen at current asking prices and these things never come down so I guess I’ll have to live without one forever.
I mean, if it's got to be an STI then sure but WRXes don't have to be expensive. I mean, in this thread yep the desirable ones are pricey but a solid turbo impreza will still probably appreciate if looked after, and an unsolid fixable one definitely will if you can diy it. Definitely one of the cheapest ways to drive sideways into a tree.
I reckon an unspoiled 2000 with not too many holes in it could be a good buy. Not "investment" but, good buy.
My better half has a Panda 100hp and it's a great little thing to zap around in. Cheap as chips to run and insure too. Also consider the VW Lupo Gti. £5 to £10k and this guy really rates it:
He's also done one on these which I absolutely love as a good mate has one. More rapid than anything else I've ever been in. He paid about £10k for it a few years back. Struggle to get a decent one for less than £25k these days so like a lot of this modern classic stuff, think I may have missed the boat.
Lupo GTI is very cool
Porsche 911? Gonna need a much bigger budget.
The flying Ox. Yes watching with interest. Feel free to ping your car details over. Sounds like you’ll have a sale soon but no harm in me looking.
I'd love a Lupo GTI. Seems like basically the equivalent of a mk1 golf if it were made today. Wouldn't say no to a 6n2 polo gti either.