@RichPenny - I think you’re spot on. Where I work, we’ve got a load of cars on site intended for auction that will need to be shifted as quickly as possible, 500 from Enterprise alone, so we’ll be needed on site as soon as possible. Being furloughed is the best possible answer for the 150-odd people on our site, plus everyone on the other four sites belonging to the company
Can’t say I have an enormous problem with this. Who knows how long this could go on for? The scheme is intended to keep employees on the payroll rather than making them redundant, to enable fast start of the economy when this is possible.
I justified my furlough by saying that I would be off and gone if I was sacked. I can probably earn more with someone else doing a different job but the flexibility is nice where I am even though it's minimum wage for hours plus a small top up for keeping the IT/Vehicle fleet running.
Training new staff is expensive and the saving for most employers is worth the work for furlough.
One cars and furlough - speak to HMRC. It's always better to go to the source. Don't assume the employer will sort it - personal tax - it personal to you. What tells people on the phone / webchat will be what is normally already on the HMRC website. PAYE is very rigid - computer says yes computer says no territory. Problems will arise if what your employer says they are going to do, doesn't tally with what you think / tell HMRC and what they are submitting on the P11D.
As with the post above - get evidence. Photos etc are good but you really want to have something from your employer - in writing. If you have to dispute something evidence is your friend. That said it relies on you telling HMRC.
I think that's me from Thursday, just have to finish off a couple of bits of work then 3 weekly review of need upto the end of the current scheme. At least the I have a good employer and they are making up to full pay.
I am grateful to have a job, already done the chewing through savings because someones a bold take on employment rights life experience bit. Although I expect deferred hardship to when the government starts the recovery process and all public finances are reviewed. Sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're not.
So with regards to the company car. Our fleet team sent out a handback form I needed to complete. I had to take date stamped photographs of the ODO and I am no longer insured to drive the car. My fuel card is to be returned and my employers will arrange to ‘collect’ my car when we are operational again. They have informed HMRC, but recommended I also make contact, which I did via the excellent gateway system and detailed my change there, it instructed me my change would take place within 48hrs.
Pretty happy with this, car is sat locked up. I won’t use it, I have no need! When my employment starts again then I will have to go through the rigmarole of ‘on-fleeting’ my car again, however the cost saving is significant enough to justify the hassle.
So, what would happen if a furloughed employee had to do, say an hour's work as an emergency on a safety critical system. Asking for a friend.
This sounds more complicated than I thought. I'll need to think about how much the car will cost me as surely I'll only be taxed on my car based on the 20% BIK tax (based on the £2500) as opposed to my usual 40% tax rate.
True I'm only using the car for the once a week trip to the supermarket 'click and collect' but I think my wife would feel less happy losing our only household car.
Jamesoz - they are able to bring you back for periods at a time, though an hour seems pointless. I guess it just gets declared via payroll and the government contribution reduces whilst the companies increases for that period.
We’ve had at least two people un-furlough for a week so far.
Jamesoz – they are able to bring you back for periods at a time, though an hour seems pointless. I guess it just gets declared via payroll and the government contribution reduces whilst the companies increases for that period.
We’ve had at least two people un-furlough for a week so far.
Thanks, that's good to know. Call outs for us are rare but critical (fire suppression) and all non urgent work has been cancelled, hence the furlough.
But the minimum period for furlough is 3 weeks.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme
So I can't attend then without costing 3 weeks wages
Ready for its not fair rant?
Our company gas furloughed staff. They're topping up the twenty percent so no impact financially (great thing to do)
BUT
Those of us who are still working are super busy and have been told to take mandatory holiday...
So basically if you are busy you have your hours squeezed to add pressure. You have to use holiday. Compared to if you have no work... Take three weeks on full pay and come back with all your holidays intact...
Safe to say very little work was done after that meeting 😁
Well I work from home, have work to do still with some customers still ‘working from home’ and was still Furloughed. However the core activity of our business cannot function therefore we are not generating money! Hence I guess why we are all Furloughed.
some customers still ‘working from home’ and was still Furloughed
Strictly speaking they shouldn't be doing anything - think that might be called fraud.
ake three weeks on full pay and come back with all your holidays intact…
I can appreciate your frustration.
Not everyone is having a holiday. One positive is it frees people to volunteer and do things for the community. My first three weeks are going to be spent recuperating and getting my fitness up.
Whilst Furlough-1 seems like a relatively good scheme if you have an employer who makes up the difference. There are still people who are only getting 80% of their wage. Others who are only getting the scheme money and that's it. Furlough-2 may not be the same as 1. The government has now had time to plan a replacement. There is nothing to say it would be as good as one as there has been more time to create a solution. The massive increase in costs above estimate would suggest a rethink may happen. Which may be in part due to the employers above.
Wife has got letter and company is topping up 20% but expecting her to work as normal.
This is illegal isn't it and I'm telling her absolutely not to do it as she is party to fraud.
Yep. Either furloughed or not. If the company choose to top up, that's them being generous, but they get nothing in return. If they have need/work for her, they should not furlough her.
What happens if a furloughed employee is brought under minimum wage when on 80%?
Anyone know about annual leave? As furloughed is not employed, do you lose holiday?
i.e. 3 months furloughed = lose 25% of your holidays?
It is ok to be paid less than minimum wage on furlough. Minimum wage only applies to 'hours worked' and you are not allowed to work on furlough
Holidays still accrue whilst on furlough and you should not be required to take them whilst on furlough. If you are asked to take them then it may be acceptable if you are paid 100% for that period.
The big issue for the company may be too many people trying to take holidays in too few working months. The Government has said unused holidays can carry over in to the next year
Good question. Would it still keep them above job seekers and universal credit?
There are a lot of holes in furlough. It looks like my wife has been dropped in one of them due to planning a change of job this month.
It's a quick system, no one said it was a great system.
All we can do is trust they will keep plugging holes when they find them.
Leave should still accrue as you're still employed, just not physically working. There was a new ruling that allows people to carry over 4 weeks of holiday over the next two years, but your employer has to agree to it.
Strictly speaking they shouldn’t be doing anything – think that might be called fraud.
no you miss-read my post! I’m Furloughed my customers are not! My point was I could still be working (I’m not as I’m Furloughed)
so nothing Fraudulent at all!
There are still people who are only getting 80%
There are people getting less than that! It’s either £2500 or 80% whichever is the least! I am currently receiving less than 50% of my usual salary...like I said before don’t expect sympathy, in fact I’m grateful to even still have any income at all. However it is very difficult to quickly unwind and restructure your finances as quick as this has hit! Luckily we live a fairly conservative life style and are not highly geared with loans or credit.
no you miss-read my post!
Sorry, I had miss read that as you had furloughed customers and they were still working.
50% is a really bummer, sorry to see that.
So as of tomorrow evening I'm furloughed for at least 3 weeks.
Not entirely sure how I feel about it, especially having taken a 15% pay cut last week to 'protect jobs' - I know it's pretty much the government paying for me to have 3 weeks off.
Just had the phone call from the finance director. Most staff are furloughed, but essential staff such as IT (me) HR and Finance are being asked to work a 4 day week for 80% pay. Still trying to work out the reasoning behind this.
Sorry to see that Trailwagger
If this goes long I think the reduction in hours discussion may come to us all.
Sorry to see that Trailwagger
Doesn't quite seem fair when most others in the company are furloughed so getting 80% salary and don't have to work. Whereas I get 80% salary but still have to work four days a week.
Doesn’t quite seem fair when most others in the company are furloughed so getting 80% salary and don’t have to work. Whereas I get 80% salary but still have to work four days a week.
I don't think it's too unreasonable (I'm in exactly the same boat).
From the perspective of the company they're paying 0% for those furloughed, and 80% for 80% of the work.
I don’t think it’s too unreasonable (I’m in exactly the same boat).
From the perspective of the company they’re paying 0% for those furloughed, and 80% for 80% of the work.
Correct, from the businesses perspective. But on a personal level, why should I have to work for 80% when the guy who used to sit next to me in the office is now at home doing nothing and still getting 80%.
And as I said a day or so ago in this thread, the company I work for make £1m + profit a year. They could easily cover all staff salaries and just take a hit on the profit for this year. But they always put profit above all else.
the guy who used to sit next to me in the office is now at home doing nothing
.....doing nothing except worrying about making ends meet?
I was furloughed yesterday along with quite a lot of others, on a group Teams call. We finish this afternoon.
Yes it's great that there's the scheme, but it doesn't take away from the human factors - personally we're OK as we're not highly leveraged as a family in terms of debt etc, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't hurt to effectively be told "you and your family take the hit for the greater good". And I know from talking to many younger colleagues that it's going to put them in tough financial positions as there's very little notice to allow for financial planning.
Are those that have actually had their pay reduced agreed to the reduction, as it does consitutue a change in contract. The rule on Furlough is that it is a capped subsidy to the company you work for and not what that the gv are paying you. The company make up the balance! If they dont/cant make up the blance they have to ask you for a reduction in pay and you have to agree to that in writing. If you don't, then you are not legally/contractually obliged to, however you run the risk of being made redundant legally through lack of funds.
The higher mangement types, are generally being asked to a cut (again this has to be aggred) as the difference on furlough is too great to make it it a worthwhile option, you end up paying a lot of money for someone to sit on their backsides, so ask them to take a cut and keep them working. Again, the employeee can agree to a cut, but it has to be in writing.
As for the profit vs wages argument. It's tricky - is it a private copany or is it a PE affair/share holders. If you remove cash from a company you jeopordise the long term propsects of the company to keep going. Also, Profit does not = liquid cash. On the flip side, if you got £2m of cash sitting their but due a big load repayment in 4-5 months time, why would you not say the banks etc can wait - long term survival of the company is generally the answer..
It’s a mess, but any alternative would have been, so it’s hard to see a better way around that could have been put together so quickly. My team runs the company's pension (and death benefits) scheme, so CV19 does not reduce our workload - we’ve still got 12,000 pensioners to pay, and we’ll probably have a spike in deaths, so actually more work. The business however is running c20% of its usual service (for c15% revenue) so have furloughed 4 of our 6 administrators because of cash flow. I’m our systems, procedures and legal specialist, so it’s a steep learning curve to pick up that slack.
I did mention the problem of justifying full time work for 100% vs do nothing and still get 80%, particularly when they said those not furloughed would lose any untaken holidays.
Management in most companies, I suspect, are trying to implement this reasonably while not losing sight of finding a path to keep the business viable.
is this the thread for contractor furlough info too, or should I start another?
The company I work form have let all contractors go, and our Agency is being as much use as a chocolate teapot about the contractor furlough scheme. They keep saying they don't have the full info to move us onto it... are there any agency's implement it?
If they dont/cant make up the blance they have to ask you for a reduction in pay and you have to agree to that in writing. If you don’t, then you are not legally/contractually obliged to, however you run the risk of being made redundant legally through lack of funds.
I dont see it as optional. There is always the veiled threat of redundancy.
I dont see it as optional. There is always the veiled threat of redundancy.
i don't disagree with you at all, im in exactly the same boat, but it's just a point that everyone should be very aware of.
Sui
MemberAre those that have actually had their pay reduced agreed to the reduction, as it does consitutue a change in contract
Not necessarily if your contract has a short-time working or lay off clause, mine does.
the guy who used to sit next to me in the office is now at home doing nothing
We have put people on furlough and we were going to top salaries up to 100% of annual average (to take account of commissions and bonuses) regardless of salary level but decided to keep it at 90% to allow a difference between those working and those not. Many people will be better off at 90% without commuting but everyone's situation is different. I am flat out which is great but I really would rather have work to do than not. It will not be easy for people on furlough.
Doesn’t quite seem fair when most others in the company are furloughed so getting 80% salary and don’t have to work. Whereas I get 80% salary but still have to work four days a week.
Wait until you find out the people who are furloughed get the bank holidays as additional annual leave as they aren't able to 'take' them when on furlough
And if you're working a 4 day week for that pay cut, your holiday entitlement is likely to be pro-rata'd.
My concern is, where a company furloughs staff and they agree to the 80% of salary in lieu of full pay what happens a few months down the line and the company decides to make them redundant, will they use their original salary or the 80%?
As I understand it, making up the 20% is optional. It seems wide open to abuse though. Paticularly with working for cash and claiming type fraud,
Is anyone else on here on a zero hour contract and furloughed?
Our pay seems to be worked out the same as holiday pay on a rolling 13 week basis. I've had to have time off (unpaid) because of my Dad so my total hours are short. My furlough rate come out to about 70%, can they do that or should it just be a flat 80% of contracted hours?
Edit
Found the answer Martin Lewis
I've had two payrises in the last year so looks like it's on the lower rate, **** sake
It should be based on the higher of monthly pay when you were furloughed, pay for the same month in a previous year or average monthly pay in 2019/20. And it’s on declared gross pay, so might be lower than you expect if you’re in any pay sacrifice arrangement.
Didn't get furloughed how ever some of our guys did with tomorrow being that 45 days to end of furlough I see there being a lot of redundancies flying about ....45 days being the consultation if more than 50 being let go.
We were told this morning letters will arrive over the weekend to those effected.
Marvellous.
Reading between the lines of a few of my acquaintances and one definite example....
There seem to be more than a few companies who are 'furloughing' employees whilst actually getting them to work as normal. I mean, how is anyone going to be able to police this properly during and especially after?
A very common mantra I have been repeating about lots of things lately:
"Everyone plays nice...... until there is money involved".
Asking for a friend, say they get a basic wage, plus shift allowance plus a percentage for attendance records, good sick record, is the 80% based on basic wage or the actual gross wage.
They have been told basic wage, so 80% of basic wage is much less than 80% of normal gross wage? They are due for 1st payment next week.
