Same kind of reason that Schumacher's legacy is tainted really - he's been a raging success in a team that would never let the second driver beat him, and he's used some questionable tactics. Bit like Vettel, maybe - sure, four times world champion but never replicated that success elsewhere. If he goes to a different team and keeps making his team mates look average, then fair enough.
Sponsors would pay a lot to have a multiple world champion in the car
But Zak would like to hang on to sponsor money, and not spaff it and more on a stroppy dutchman.
You could get 10 Piastris for Max money; which is more value when Lando is faster than both?
Same kind of reason that Schumacher’s legacy is tainted really – he’s been a raging success in a team that would never let the second driver beat him, and he’s used some questionable tactics.
Nelson Piquet was his teammate at Benneton, Schumacher trounced him. The reason he was given number 1 status at Benneton and then Ferrari was because he was faster than all his teammates. If Irvine or Barrichello had turned out to be faster then Schumacher, they would have earned number 1 status, but Schumacher was faster than them so they had to settle for number 2 status.
However, Schumacher often took things too far and his legacy will always be tainted by crashing into Hill and Villeneuve.
Bit like Vettel, maybe
Seb is the classic example of a multiple WDC who, while obviously very good, doesn't quite sit on the same pedestal as the true greats. Seb excelled at driving the blown diffuser cars but there was always a slight question over his wheel to wheel racing and ability to adapt when the car wasn't quite right (awaits counter examples). But he's probably still one of the few recent WDCs that'd be fun to hang out with.
Nelson Piquet was his teammate at Benneton, Schumacher trounced him.
39 year old Piquet outscored Schumacher in their races together at Benetton.
The reason he was given number 1 status at Benneton and then Ferrari was because he was faster than all his teammates. If Irvine or Barrichello had turned out to be faster then Schumacher, they would have earned number 1 status, but Schumacher was faster than them so they had to settle for number 2 status.
Oh, he was super-quick, no doubt, but neither Benetton and Ferrari would have allowed a team mate (who were picked to support and not challenge him) to beat him - Herbert recounts being quicker in a session than Schumacher and from then on he was denied access to Schumacher's data. Contrast that with an Alonso or a Hamilton who don't care who's in the other car. TBF, I would guess Max isn't that bothered who's in the other car, but his team is, I think.
Contrast that with an Alonso or a Hamilton who don’t care who’s in the other car. TBF, I would guess Max isn’t that bothered who’s in the other car, but his team is, I think.
The falling out at McLaren was because Alonso believed that he should be given priority over a rookie. He joined the team expecting number 1 status.
Part of the reason Merc kept Bottas so long was because Hamilton wanted a teammate who didn't upset him the way Rosberg did.
It's widely believed that Red Bull didn't want to take Sainz back because of friction between the Verstappen and Sainz camps at Torro Rosso.
All the drivers care who's in the other car and will do whatever they can to get someone they want.
The falling out at McLaren was because Alonso believed that he should be given priority over a rookie. He joined the team expecting number 1 status.
Well - that, and his perception the team working more for rookie Hamilton than they did for reigning world champion him. Didn't McLaren protest Alonso at the Hungarian GP in 2007, or something?
Alonso's had, I think, four world champions as team mates, Hamilton's had three.
Another great race.
Charles pulls of the strategic gamble to win in front of the Tifosi. Must have been a great atmosphere at Monza.
Bold pass by Piastri on lap 1 and although its not great for Landos title aspirations, its good to see a team allowing their drivers to race.
RedBull continue to be on the backfoot (and i'm expecting that to remain the same for Baku & Singapore), so Max is going to have to grind out the results to hang onto this championship.
Also a solid race debut for Colapinto bringing it home in 12th.
That wasn't much of a gamble for Ferrari as they had nothing to lose!
Looks like Kevin Magnussen is going to have to sit Baku out. Good news for Bearman!
https://youtube.com/shorts/i5SFyeUQ55M?si=Y9VuGK7cFxRrh7W-
Wonder, come the end of the season, if Lando will be looking elsewhere if he misses the WDC by less than the number of points he’s missed by the team not favouring him when they could have switched cars. That’s 10 now.
I know, it's baffling to me that the team isn't doing more to support his bid for the drivers championship, it makes them look like they're a less than serious team
Everyone criticises Max for not having an equal driver in the second RedBull and that it dimmishes his achievements as a WC, if he hasnt beaten another WC in the same car.
If Lando wants to be WC then he needs to beat Piastri first, who was the faster of the 2 drivers today.
Everyone criticises Max for not having an equal driver in the second RedBull and that it dimmishes his achievements as a WC, if he hasnt beaten another WC in the same car.
Honestly, I think that's more on Red Bull than Max.
Also a solid race debut for Colapinto bringing it home in 12th.
Which puts him 21st in the champiosnhip, one place ahead of Bottas...
Agree it's madness not swapping Piastri and Norris on the last lap, ten points is huge, even the three from this time could make a difference.
Wonder, come the end of the season, if Lando will be looking elsewhere
And go where? Merc is full, Ferrari is full, Red Bull are struggling. McLaren have always had a policy of letting their drivers compete. If Norris wants to be world champion, he has to beat his teammate.
And go where?
not necessarily for ‘25.
McLaren have always had a policy of letting their drivers compete
By all means start the season like that and see who emerges in top, but at this stage in the season, 2/3rds of the way through, Oscar is not going to catch Max, so it makes sense to put all your energy into Lando, who has much more of a chance to.
Assuming they win the WCC, they’ll look pretty daft doing it P2 and 3, when they could have done it P1 and 4/5, and all the kudos/marketing opportunity that brings…
I think there is a bit of needle starting between LN and OP. I feel Monza was a follow on from Hungary and OP has learned that he needs to assert himself strongly. I suspect Lando wants Oscar to play the diligent number 2 role but Piastri with some justification sees himself as an equal. Lando clearly trying to put Oscar in his place in Hungary certainly took the shine off his maiden win I think that will be remembered.
I agree with @Chew, if Lando can't defend from his team mate, McLaren are going to look pretty silly shouting 'multi21' into the mic at every race.
Looks like Kevin Magnussen is going to have to sit Baku out.
Honestly he seems like a nice enough guy off the track, but an absolute walloper when he gets behind the wheel. I think these are going to be his last F1 races, I can't imagine any other team will ever employ him.
I agree with @Chew, if Lando can’t defend from his team mate…
They’re all going to look stupid when that defence/attack is too strong, taking them both out of a race because they’ve been allowed to race. ‘Papaya rules’ will go out the window when it gets properly elbows out.
Seems all that ‘think of the rest of the season’ they were pleading with Lando in Hungary should have been ignored.
Seems all that ‘think of the rest of the season’ they were pleading with Lando in Hungary should have been ignored.
Quite
Great race. Bold call by Ferrari
standard result for merc. Hamilton goes forward from qualifying whilst Russel goes backwards
They’re all going to look stupid when that defence/attack is too strong, taking them both out of a race because they’ve been allowed to race. ‘Papaya rules’ will go out the window when it gets properly elbows out.
Seems all that ‘think of the rest of the season’ they were pleading with Lando in Hungary should have been ignored.
I can imagine Zak Brown being very matter of fact about it towards Lando - basically if you can't win it on your own you don't deserve the title.
As long as McLaren bring home the constructors title that will be reward enough.
@tomhoward. I know every race Russell finds away to turn a good qualifying position to a bad result and is made to look mediocre by his team leader. I wonder how is going to explain hitting the slalom poles at the first chicane smashing his wing so badly
The good news is we now have a fight for the WDC championship. I’m expecting McLaren will now in the constructors. Fingers crossed Norris can close down the gap to Max
I heard that Piastri had said he'd keep racing Lando while there was still a mathematical chance of him (OP) winning the WDC. Currently he's 106 points off Max with 200+ points available for the rest of the season. If Oscar can keep out scoring Max then Lando is on his own for a while yet.
I think these are going to be his last F1 races, I can’t imagine any other team will ever employ him
I like Magnussen and Ricciardo and Bottas, they seem like they might actually be fun people to hang out with but they've all had a decent shot and none of them are going to be world champion. It would be good for the sport if they were all replaced by young drivers next year. Same with Perez and Hulkenberg.
They’re all going to look stupid when that defence/attack is too strong
Oh I agree 100%. Morally they've got two really strong drivers, they should let them race. Logically; pick one for the no1 driver spot and they'll win both drivers and constructors. It's what RB/Merc have done, and there's a reason they've been to two best teams recently. That used to be the McLaren way, they need to resolve that sharpish.
Logically; pick one for the no1 driver spot and they’ll win both drivers and constructors. It’s what RB/Merc have done
Merc have never had a number 1 driver. Both drivers have always been free to compete until one is out of contention for the championship.
Piastri is currently 106 points behind Verstappen with eight races to go, so 200 points for regular race wins and 8 points for fastest laps, plus three sprint races, so 24 points for wins. That's a total of 232 points still available, so too early to ask him to give up title hopes.
Oh I agree 100%. Morally they’ve got two really strong drivers, they should let them race. Logically; pick one for the no1 driver spot and they’ll win both drivers and constructors. It’s what RB/Merc have done, and there’s a reason they’ve been to two best teams recently. That used to be the McLaren way, they need to resolve that sharpish.
Logically yes, but that doesn't take into account OP's ego. He'll not like the idea of being a #2. That needs to be managed carefully
Seems all that ‘think of the rest of the season’ they were pleading with Lando in Hungary should have been ignored.
Yup!
Pretty stupid move by Oscar if you consider the big picture. That move led to having to implement sub-optimal strategy which ultimately cost them them the 1-2 and being 1st in the Constructors. Made them look a bit stupid.
Lando is going to be much more 'elbows out' and I foresee a papaya crash in the future with Lando needing to asset himself as not to be messed with ala MV vibes.
Also Lando isn't going to be minded to support his team mate in future when called on.
Good race that! Surprised Mclaren didn't see that coming after GR pulled off the same strategy in Spa. Great job by Ferrari/Charles, loved seeing the tifosi running down the track to the podium.
Starting to see a bit of a cut-throat side to Piastri now, he's got a bit of a spring in his step since his win. Lando needs to definitively stamp that out with a couple of dominant performances if he wants the team to back him. Right now I don't think he's doing enough, he really really needs to get on top of his starts.
Pretty stupid move by Oscar if you consider the big picture.
But whose big picture?
It was a stunning pass. Ballsy, precise, ruthlessly effective, and a clear statement to anyone who needed it. He forced Norris to back down and threw him to the Ferraris. It did Piastri’s big picture a world of good.
The “sub-optimal strategy” seemed to be a close call and also seemed to hinge on faith in the tyres, which Piastri and/or the McLaren seemed not to be able to conserve as well as Leclerc and the Ferrari. I would lean slightly more towards Piastri leaning on them too much, given that Norris was catching him (and not for the first time when tyre management has been a factor). He was lucky that Norris is still prone to errors and fluffed it at the Roggia.
Ultimately I think Norris still needs to fix his errors, Piastri still needs to improve his race management, and McLaren still need to have more trust in their numbers.
Great drive by Leclerc, though. He may not be a consistent Sunday driver but when he delivers he delivers.
The “sub-optimal strategy” seemed to be a close call and also seemed to hinge on faith in the tyres, which Piastri and/or the McLaren seemed not to be able to conserve as well as Leclerc and the Ferrari.
Exactly. It was the safe strategy and McLaren were better off sticking with a safe strategy. Ferrari took a risky bet which paid off for Leclerc but not for Sainz. Just because the Ferrari could make the tyres last that long doesn't mean that the McLaren could. McLaren's priority is scoring points toward the constructor's championship and they settled for a conservative strategy that took a decent chunk out of Red Bull. It's not the strategic disaster that a lot of people seem to believe.
Lando’s little first corner slide. That would’ve been enough for OP to decide that he was having a pop
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1830679082226327818
Red Bull and Ferrari complaining that Merc and McLaren wings are flexing too much.
Seems nothing will be done this season though. The FIA are already monitoring front wings in case they need to change regs for next season.
FIA have already said that all front wings comply with their current load tests and are legal.
FIA have already said that all front wings comply with their current load tests and are legal.
The point is that the load tests can be changed if it's believed that teams are pushing flex too far. Red Bull and Ferrari will be hoping to have stricter load tests introduced this season to force Merc and McLaren to redesign their wings to comply.
They can change them mid-season - but there are only 3 months of the season left. And this has been rumbling on for months.
So forcing teams to redesign the front wings and then everything behind it to cope with the new airflow would take a long time and be massively expensive.
the-muffin-man
And this has been rumbling on for months.
RB in particular have been complaining about this for a while. The interesting thing for me about this latest update is Ferrari getting on side with RB.
The interesting thing for me about this latest update is Ferrari getting on side with RB.
All the teams are ruthlessly opportunistic on things like this. If a rival figures out a trick, they'll do anything they can to have it banned. When they figure out a trick, they'll swear that it's all above board. It's just how it's done.
forcing teams to redesign the front wings and then everything behind it to cope with the new airflow would take a long time and be massively expensive.
The result would be that the teams have to make the wings less flexy. If the flex isn't performance enhancing (which would be illegal), then the airflow downstream wouldn't change and there would be no need to change anything else. If they have to redesign the whole car because they can't use a flexy wing then the wing is illegal.
Flex isn't illegal - they all flex to some extent to enhance performance. And the FIA have already said all cars comply with the rules as written now.
"The FIA said in July, when this emerged, that the data would be used to enhance its understanding of bodywork flexibility for future regulations - rather than changing anything this season."
