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Left my former employer in mid November, so was paid a reduced amount on 27th November (half a months pay). Just checked my bank statement (to confirm my new employer is paying me) and have seen that the old place paid me the same reduced amount on 29th December as they did in November.
Assuming they don't pay me again this month (wouldn't put it past their incompetent accountant) what do I do? Pay them back, wait till they claim it back, or stick it in a savings account for x years until it's lawfully mine??
EDIT: former employer was in the bike business, but didn't mean to put this in the wrong forum!
Just pay it back. They can request it back so might as well just get it over and done with.
I wouldn't have posted on the Internet about it if I had any mention of keeping it.
Happened to me once, I kept it but then I did leave under a cloud.
Why would you keep it? It's not yours.
An administration error on their part which will soon be found out.
Just call them and let them know.
I'd keep it tucked away - call me dishonest, but I'm honest to admit I would.
Either they'll ask for it reasonably soon, or at the end of the financial year when they sign off the PAYE for the year or no later then 10 months after their next year-end when they file their accounts.
If they don't find it by then they never will, or frankly it'll be more trouble than its worth - and you can never underestimate the 'Howard Smith' effect - whereby admitting to a mistake and fixing it is less palettable than pretending it never happened and hoping no one else notices. 😉
It happened to an old housemate of mine a few years back, he just put it in a savings account every month, then when they asked for it back after about a year, he arranged to pay it back at so much a month. He's probably still paying them back now.
Not your month in hand?
Definitely not- didn't leave on good terms, no real notice period (I didn't want to leave either which makes me more confused!)
Leave it where it is, they will probably attpt to reclaim via DD when they twig, but after their accounting year the chances of them trying to get it reduce
Not giving it back is technically theft, ok 🙂
Coke?
Hookers?
Or give back to a childrens charity by buying loads of bongo mags and bring back hedge porn.
Keep hold of it but do not spend it. If they ask for it (which they probably will) pay it back or you'll end up in court.
I'd say you could argue that you thought 1 or 2 payments were owed to you but anymore and you are on dodgy grounds.
Have a look at the following legislation. It should help you make up your mind.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/dishonestly_retaining_a_wrongful_credit/
If they can link you to this thread then you could be looking at porridge
If you want to keep it, then don't check your account as then you can plead ignorance. Everytime you check there is a record which will prove you were aware and did nothing about it.
Honesty is always the best policy. Don't keep it and wait for a knock on the door!
Why not keep it? You'll get no thanks off incompetent people for telling them how crap they are.
They should be getting paid to do things right, it's not your job to help them.
Something similar happened to a friend of mine and she is now stuck in a very difficult position of trying to pay £3k back that she spent. I'd put it aside as a good chance they'll ask for it back.
Why not keep it?
Because it's theft.
"Property is theft!"
Keep it, shut up about it, put it in a savings account and leave it alone
IIRC, They've got six years to ask for it back.
the employer will claim it back...as above put it in a savings account and agree to pay back so much per month, some may ask for it all back in oine lump
Pay it back. It isn't your money.
Unsolicited gift rather than theft shirley?
A gift is someone knowingly giving something to someone.
Is this the case here? I don't think so.
OP, do the right thing.
stick it in a savings account till the tax year is up.
Do the right thing. Give it to homeless people.
It's not theft if someone gives you it, you can argue about the morality of keeping it, aye. But it's not theft.Drac - Moderator
Why not keep it?
Because it's theft.
Its not his it was given incorrectly he knows he is not entitled to it so to keep it [ or try to ] would be theft.
The money is not their property as any court would clearly agree, not least because they have admitted it in the OP.
If they keep it they can only do so via theft but it is highly unlikely they will be done for it and will only need to pay it back
The actus reus of theft is usually defined as an unauthorized taking, keeping or using of another's property which must be accompanied by a mens rea of dishonesty and/or the intent to permanently deprive the owner or the person with rightful possession of that property or its use.
You really have to be some kind of arsehole to believe that the money can be kept.
That's my moral stance on the matter.
It's not theft if someone gives you it, you can argue about the morality of keeping it, aye. But it's not theft.
Theft by finding
I think the company must be some kind of arsehole to put the op in this position.
I have no sympathy for them. Like I said they pay someone a good salary NOT to make mistakes like that.
As for theft I don't think the police would have any interest in pursuing that at all, they will say it's a 'civil matter'. It happened to someone I know a few years back, he bought a nice carbon trek with his 'gift'.
I'd echo the "Stick it in a savings account" advice above; I used to work for a large company where communication was more than a little poor when it came to management notifying Payroll that staff had left, to the point that one chap was paid for 6 months between him leaving and Payroll being told he'd left. The company did chase overpayments, not always immediately, and if someone who had been overpaid and not yet repaid it came back to work, it was taken off their salary when they rejoined... A lot of the overpayments, regardless of the total amount, were being paid back at £5/month though, even when the employee had been earning £1500+ after tax with us.
You really have to be some kind of arsehole to believe that the money can be kept.
That's my moral stance on the matter.
Replace jerk with arsehole.
Questions -
did they make you feel a valued employee?
Did you enjoy working there?
will they miss it?
If the answer is no to all of these then xxxx em and put it in a savings account. And for what its worth its not theft, morally dubious perhaps, but certainly not a crime
right ye are mother teresa! 😆iolo - Member
You really have to be some kind of arsehole to believe that the money can be kept.
That's my moral stance on the matter.
It is a criminal offence so up to you really. S.24 of the Theft Act - Dishonestly retaining a wrongful credit
It's not your money is it.
It is a criminal offence so up to you really. S.24 of the Theft Act - Dishonestly retaining a wrongful credit
Really?
Did you look at the definition of what amounts to a 'wrongful' credit under para 2A?
Once he knows that the money he has been paid isn't his and he then either spends it or transfers it then he comits theft as he has dishonestly appropriated the money. The money doesn't have to be stolen in the first place.
So, nothing to do with the S24 offence of retaining a 'wrongful' credit then?
I can't believe how often this comes up.
Is the money yours?
No. Give it back.
Not quite as simple as that.
If the company were asshats, then it should be kept and considered 'Asshat Tax'.
Not quite as simple as that.
I guess right and wrong is a fairly difficult concept for some people.
Did you look at the definition of what amounts to a 'wrongful' credit under para 2A?
That's not a prescriptive definition of a wrongful credit. That section was added so that the offence thereafter included the credits listed [u]in addition[/u] to what it originally referred to, i.e. money credited by mistake.
That is to say, if you transferred money to my account that you had stolen, and I knew you had stolen it, I commit an offence if I keep it, because money obtained by theft is now, since 2A was inserted, a wrongful credit, despite you giving it to me on purpose rather than by mistake.
I was overpaid on my final pay when I left my last job. I told them, then they wrote to me asking for £XX back. For a laugh, I told them their figures were wrong and offered about half that, in full settlement. They went for it ! I guess they couldn't be bothered arguing and were happy to get some back. Worth a try !
Just a thought but wont you be wanting a P45 for your next job. if the old job is still paying you then you are still employed and bound by their T&C's when you joined.
I suspect if you get another job and still paid by the old one your tax will get messed up.
Just let them know the error and arrange to pay it back, why have the bother of it on your mind and conscience.
The other point to consider is the future.
Should you one day need them for a reference I'm sure they'll want to give one to the guy who wouldn't give them their money back.
Ninfan - not quite sure why you are trying to pick an argument. It's a criminal offence. You can't keep something you know doesnt belong to you. It's not a difficult concept to follow. You've misread the legislation because it's badly written. Please see the post above
thegreatape - Member
That's not a prescriptive definition of a wrongful credit. That section was added so that the offence thereafter included the credits listed in addition to what it originally referred to, i.e. money credited by mistake.
That is to say, if you transferred money to my account that you had stolen, and I knew you had stolen it, I commit an offence if I keep it, because money obtained by theft is now, since 2A was inserted, a wrongful credit, despite you giving it to me on purpose rather than by mistake.
I echo the comments above re sticking it in a savings account then you'll have it there if and when they ask for it back but id be concerned about how HMRC will respond to you having recieved 2 lots of pay because at least of of those will not be entitled to the tax free allowance.