Will they be striking in their second jobs too?
No they are self employed window cleaners
Right so the fact that you get a good wage
Its not about wages tho.
Good wage, yup! my take home is just over £1.5K I do have apart time job to supplement this and pay taxes on this again is this illegal? I stay in the most expensive city in Scotland and my fire service wage does not the cover the cost of living here.
It is still legal for me to withdraw my labour in a legal strike action.
This link suggests UK firefighters fatality rate was 2.7 per 100'000 in 2004-2007. So safer than the average in the chart above.
Or it could be to do with the skill and competence of those in the fire sevice . . .
Fully support those in the fire service.
Remember, they go inside the burning building whilst you run out.
It is still legal for me to withdraw my labour in a legal strike action.
Don't care either way to be honest you are not laying bricks you are supposed saving lives and homes.
You sound like an MP banging on about what is legal whilst being questioned about expenses.
so just roll over and accept? righto then 🙄
what I do on my rota days off is up to me. I don't lay bricks that sounds like too much hard work 😉
I don't have an answer on how to not roll over to be honest but would I fek go on strike if I had been given your job.
Apart from my feelings on the strike best of luck with the pension battle
The problem is many people signed up to do a job for a set period and then retire earlier than others, and now the ones in power want to extend those hours, to save costs.
But if the fire men do withdraw their labour as is allowed in law(strike)then there is a good probability people wil die,or homes or buisnesses will burn to the ground, and that will feed a media frenzy and possibly calls for the privatisation of the fire services,lots of money to be made from atending rtc, lift breakdowns and fires,etc, etc,but then who pays these costs, yep we do through added insurance costs, but we get lots of logod fire engines, and part time firemen,with management possibly picking which sort of fire or emergency they attend., eg house fire, insurance cover, bonfire or grass fire , no insutrance cobver, until it starts burning a house or factory down.
Or it could be to do with the skill and competence of those in the fire sevice . . .Fully support those in the fire service.
Remember, they go inside the burning building whilst you run out.
The competence of the Fire service was never questioned. That doesn't alter the fact that it is not an especially dangerous occupation.
As for the burning building - I have gone into one when the fire service hadn't arrived yet.
They've had it good for far too long!
Lost my sympathy I'm afraid... They should seriously take a look at what they have compared to others and then shut the hell up moaning.
I pulled on to a fire station car park the other day ... Jeez it was packed with builders, window cleaner, first aid training vans!!
Second jobs!!
And before anyone asks how I know they all belonged to firefighters...!?
They had all been polished!!
But if the fire men do withdraw their labour as is allowed in law(strike)then there is a good probability people wil die
So what was the death toll in previous disputes then ?
And how does that compare to deaths caused every time governments carry out cuts in essential services ?
pulled on to a fire station car park the other day ... Jeez it was packed with builders, window cleaner, first aid training vans!!
charity van wash, training day for the self employed to learn first aid,our local fire station used to be a base for training courses.
If the firefighters are pushed into striking they have my support
Project...
Oh yeah right of course..!
Funny how they were in the non visitor parking area.
Jeez it was packed with builders, window cleaner, first aid training vans!!
They actually had 'window cleaner' written on the side of the van ? These firefighters are daft, aren't they ?
Of course I believe you.
the pension I signed up for was shafted including my right to retire early, increased contributions etc
the good news for me was that my Unions GMB, Unison and a third I don't remember all recommended that their members bend over and accept the proposals
firefighters do an important job as do many others but they are not going to get much sympathy these days
One thought is that if fitness is so important then firefighters should be on contracts similar to the forces where there is an expectation that you do your time and then move to another career
Whats the forces pension like?
Theres no doubt that there is a lot of downtime in their job and because they work long shifts they get a lot of time off.. but to be fair- most of the nhs work similar shifts. Whats wrong with having a second job?
Strikings a tough one though.. times have changed and if they go out the public will probably turn on them- no doubt being fuelled by the redtops and the tory pr machine. In saying that I can see a general strike happeni g in the next year or two.. so many folk getting shafted, eventually they wont be able to swallow it. I for one do not look forward to that day.
I have a lot of sympathy for them though, especially the ones that are only a few years (or were) from retirement. Heard one minister state that the pension scheme will still be much more generous than a private sector pension.. not a valid comparison at all and just another attempt to turn folk against them.
Edit- what ernie said up there..
Having done a very small time poxy offshore course where I had to put out a controlled fire, drag a hose around and pull out a body, bearing in mind I was shown around the very basic building before hand I came out with a whole new respect for the Fire Service. There Emergency's are real, they dont get to know where the rooms are or furniture is in the building to have to climb over and around whislt in a boiling hot room filled with smoke trying to remeber there way back out
If the Fire Service have to deal with me,family or friends I would rather they turned up with out the worry of being ****ed over for their payed into and earnt pension and were just able to consentrate on the job
I agree with matt22 above, when a fireman rescues you or your loved one from a certain death you will be happy to pay them whatever they want..
Lets have a good argument about mp's wages shall we?
And before anyone asks how I know they all belonged to firefighters...!?
They had all been polished!!
Hahaha!
They've had it good for far too long!
Lost my sympathy I'm afraid... They should seriously take a look at what they have compared to others and then shut the hell up moaning.
I pulled on to a fire station car park the other day ... Jeez it was packed with builders, window cleaner, first aid training vans!!
Second jobs!!
And before anyone asks how I know they all belonged to firefighters...!?
They had all been polished!!
Probably all retainers ? Part timers who had come from their full time paid jobs to man the appliance ?
some people here hate anyone striking, this place will go nuclear when I go on strike later in the year!!!
Mate - I don't think you going on strike from posting here will cause that much grief! 😉
A firefighter strike will be nothing more than a well timed reminder that not only "rich tories" are greedy.
You would think that they were the only ones who had to change their working conditions and pension arrangements.
I have never seen such a backward-looking, change-fearing and insular bunch of 'professionals' in my life. Actually - tell a lie - those muppets in the tubedrivers union with the thug at the helm.
Firemen have protected a cushy number for a long time. The last time they went on strike saw the Armed Forces doing just about as good a job with less resources, less hassle and a far better attitude to change and flexibility. The firefighters will be their own undoing.
I say scrap all pension in public sector in order to be fair to all.
If anyone wants to have a pension then just contribute to his/her own private pension fund or saving. Eat less, starve a bit and enjoy less.
The state really needs to tax less ...
🙄
You would think that they were the only ones who had to change their working conditions and pension arrangements.
Wait, don't tell me...........we're all in this together - right ?
Bankers, who through their own personal greed, incompetence, and live for today cavalier attitude, caused the worse economic mess for eighty years, are bearing the brunt of the sacrifices which are being made today ?
.
The firefighters will be their own undoing.
A bit like those "muppets in the tubedrivers union" you mentioned ?
TooTall - MemberYou would think that they were the only ones who had to change their working conditions and pension arrangements.
Nope. Where does the mentality come from, that if one person has been shat on it's OK to shit on everyone else? Someone else was unable to defend themselves, or caved in, therefore everyone else should? Hell with that. The saddest thing about the race to the bottom is how enthusiastic people are about achieving first place.
Whats the forces pension like?
Getting worse - less for longer served.
It isn't about a race to the bottom. It is about looking at a larger older population and realising that the good old days cannot perpetuate. I don't think MPs earn anything close to what they pay, but the public sector has managed to cling on to fairly gold plated pensions for far longer than most others.
I come from a family that has never had the ability to strike in any job. Somehow we all have done OK so far.
It isn't about a race to the bottom.
But your justification was that everyone else is having their conditions cut so the fire service should too.
That's pretty much the textbook definition of a race to to bottom in the current context.
Try again.
I come from a family that has never had the ability to strike in any job.
Well, that's unfortunate for you. But I'm not sure what bearing it has on the current topic
Where does the mentality come from, that if one person has been shat on it's OK to shit on everyone else?
IMO it comes from people who want to validate their own successes based on the situation of other people. Maybe it's a self esteem thing. I find the "it's my taxes" argument a bit weak too, since the private sector generally has an impact on your income too.
for those that think we have enough time for second jobs..... thats probably true, theres a 3 or 4 day break where we can potentially do other stuff, rather than just a weekend break.
personally, i [i]need[/i] a second job, we're spending more than we earn to the tune of £300 per month, and thats without tv packages, phone contracts etc!! im even down to one bike now, and about to move into a smaller place in an attempt to stop the money haemorrhaging (sp). as has been mentioned already, the moneys not great.
but..... i dont think i could physically do another job. our brigade have implemented a new shift system where i do either 96 or 120 hrs at a time, covering all shouts in that spell. believe me, when i get back i need those 3 or 4 days off!
the talk is that other brigades will be following suit soon as its a great money saver for them. 2 watches doing the work of 4, for a bit extra pay.
sorry, t'was off on a bit of a tangent to the pension subject but just the same as someone in a 'regular job' working their weekend. yes its possible, but would you want to/be capable of doing? wheres the quality of life? :-/
our brigade have implemented a new shift system where i do either 96 or 120 hrs at a time, covering all shouts in that spell
What's the shift pattern it sounds awful? What's your average number of call outs?
we do a 4/4, 4/4, 5/3 rotating shift pattern, the 5th day to travel to other stations in the county to provide resilience cover. we would also be expected to cover overnight at those stations. we stay the whole 4 or 5 days at a time, positive working hours are 7.30am to 6.30pm. we then stay in a 'pod' which is a converted house joined onto the station. we're on alerters for the night cover and have to be out the door within 5 mins at night.
ironically, most of our callouts are at night as our station is in 'scrotesville', so a lot of arson callouts, sometimes as many as 6 in the night. sometimes we get quiet nights tho, theres no real pattern to it.
not many shouts in the day really, but we do a lot of training, we're boat rescue too, so always looking for different launch points, rescue techniques etc.
Sounds terrible but how did this go through, we abandoned on call at night about 8 years ago because it was breaking working time regulations.
firemen, tube drivers , posties.. all union dominated tradionally male white workforce that has failed to move with the times. millions are accepting longer working hours / less pay/ no pay rises/ less generous pension schemes/ later retirement.
why? not because the tories says so but because the buffons Blair and Brown blew every penny the country had and will have for the foreseeable future.
This ^^Good luck to them ...I have never really understood why it's legal for employerd to change terms of a contract after signing it but if an employee tries to that's illegal
I have some sympathy with firefighters on this one and hope my (ambulance) union, Unison, do something about it. So far they have been totally inept.
The idea that it is acceptable for anyone of the proposed retirement age to be expected to carry out a job involving that level of physical activity is quite frankly ridiculous and will put the lives of [b]all[/b] those involved at greater risk. For those smartarses who are saying 'get another job', 'stop getting fat and unfit' - have you any idea of the training and fitness level required? Have you ever had to lift a person as a dead weight?
I've worked for the ambulance service for the past 8 years and there are very few people who retire without work related injuries/ailments at the current age and many are forced out prior to that! As has been pointed out already, an increasing fat population means this will only get worse.
I've worked for the ambulance service for the past 8 years and there are very few people who retire without work related injuries/ailments at the current age and many are forced out prior to that! As has been pointed out already, an increasing fat population means this will only get worse.
Use it to your advantage, industrial injury claims, medical retirement etc etc...i intend to make sure my Trust's changes cost them more than the system they have ditched....
....there was a case in the press recently where a copper sued the person she was called out to because she injured herself during the call or on his property (cant remember the details) but it shows the way forward for Ambulance staff who are being asked to manually handle an increasingly fat population while working into their 60s....its laughable and i intend to cream it from the idiots who thought this up.
My goodwill deserted me when my terms and conditions, pensions etc were all changed without my agreement, by all means change things for new starters but for those of us already paying into a scheme it should be honoured.
The firefirghters can exercise their right to strike if they so wish, that is their decision IMO. I think that both sides are being a little disingenuous in this debate but that doesn't matter. The most important message that unions should be giving out is (1) yes we will fight for our members' rights but, and more importantly (2) we will utlimately lose. The best interests of their members should be to explain the reality of the pension time bomb. Every worker in the UK, private and public sector alike, needs to wake up and smell the coffee. The correct advice is to ensure that adequate provision is being made and that those who rely solely on the state are likely to be sadly very disappointed.
The public sector also need to recognise that self-funded schemes are not synonymous with sustainable ones. This is the fallacy of the NHS. Successive governments have ensured that with the skulduggery of removing pensions from the UK's balance sheet. Many public sector pensions have become little more than ponzi schemes relying on demographic patterns and trends that will no longer exist. So this is what the unions "should" be focused on. Listen members, this scheme is basically *********, you had better start making alternative plans. But on this, the silence is deafening!
Well as 'we're all in it together' how do the firefighters feel about accepting the same pension terms as MP's?
The firefighters have my full support and I wish them the best of luck. Changing the Ts snd Cs of a pension midway through is unfair and wrong.
millions are accepting longer working hours / less pay/ no pay rises/ less generous pension schemes/ later retirement.
Well, frankly, that's tough titty for those millions.
why? not because the tories says so but because the buffons Blair and Brown blew every penny the country had and will have for the foreseeable future.
So it wasn't a global financial crisis caused by a lack of strong regulation of the financial sector in several countries and acts of greed and stupidity on a monumental scale by that same sector, after all then?
At least fire fighters don't need to look for a new career in their later years - most somehow manage to do two careers for their whole working lives as painters, gardeners, builders etc. the income from which typically isn't declared. None of the FFs I know do self assessment to declare the additional income.
[b]footflaps[/b] - Member
Well I've lost 7 years of pension due to my previous employer folding, taking their pension scheme with them and I'm not striking......
There is a government scheme now to ensure you don't loose those benefits. My father had worked for a company for 20 years and same thing happened prior to the scheme sadly.
On the firefighters , they should be expected to get new jobs after retirement from the fire service just like those in the military do with their pensions kicking in at a normal retirement age like everyone else. They of course do valuable work but that doesn't divorce them from reality
None of the FFs I know do self assessment to declare the additional income.
Plural of anecdote does not equal fact
And this still has the square root of naff all in relation to the reasons for strike
At least fire fighters don't need to look for a new career in their later years - most somehow manage to do two careers for their whole working lives as painters, gardeners, builders etc. the income from which typically isn't declared. None of the FFs I know do self assessment to declare the additional income.
This dispute is about pensions. Seem to be a few jealous people who would like to see others at the bottom of the pile, why the rush to get everyone down there?
Tell HMRC of your concerns is you suspect of tax avoidance. I pay tax,NI etc etc on any other earnings.
Having a 2nd job is no different from my neighbour who works during the day and in the pub at night as a barmaid.
I pay over £350 a month its not like we get the pension free. How much are you paying?
