[Closed] Fatistics

Just been watching 'Further Back in Time for Dinner'.
This week set in the 1940's and the interesting point for me was that in the late 40's, after almost a decade of harsh rationing combined with scientific nutritional education the British people were the healthiest they had ever been.
Fast forward 80 yrs & look at us..

They were all working bloody hard too, don't forget. In the 40s you'd have been in a cotton mill or down t'pit, in 2017 you're more likely to be a marketing manager.

But those are choices, I counter - and I've been travelling this week a lot:

Totally agree, but retailers don't make it easy. Lardy food is the default, you can have a skinny cappuccino but it's a special order. I went to get a drink in a petrol station earlier on this week and struggled to find a sugar-free option, the only choice was Diet Coke (cos I'm ****ed if I'm paying two quid for half a litre of water). Why not have it the other way around, make Fat Bastard Coke the special order?

nickc- where is the evidence that we're not less sedentary?
One example from my childhood:
I walked to school from the age of 4, as did everyone else. Now the roads are clogged with parents doing the school run.
We had no computer games and kids TV only a couple of hours a day. I spent my childhood doing gymnastics and playing out - football in the street, riding bikes, roaming round the woods etc. As did everyone else! My parents live in the street I grew up in and although kids live there, you don't see them playing out.

Agree with this, you only have to see people driving their kids less than half a mile to school each morning to see how bad the problem is.

I'll point something out though - I don't disagree that people are sedentary, but they aren't any less intrinsically lazy than they used to be. People in the good old days walked around because they had no choice. Give them the choice and they would do what we do, because they are basically us.

Re the school run - when this comes up at our school, most peopel are taking their kids to school because they drop them off on their own way to work, and walking them in then returning to the car costs them an extra half an hour on their commute. And young kids may not be trusted to walk on their own.

So it's not necessarily productive to simply blame people for being idle. Whilst many are no doubt, I think we have a problem with modern lifestyles. If both parents are going to work, then we need decent support for that - it needs to be easy, so that people aren't stressed as hell all the time.

Lardy food is the default, you can have a skinny cappuccino but it's a special order.

Semi-skimmed is the default, not whole; and a sugar laden moccachino is not the default. If you ask for a 'coffee' you'll get americano in most places.

But otherwise yes, food companies do want us to eat the most yummy and moorish stuff of course they do. Capitalism has some serious down-sides.

Totally agree, but retailers don't make it easy. Lardy food is the default,

The mandate "Quality food, isn't expensive, its poor quality food that's cheap" comes to mind here, including our natural taste for sugar salt & fat. And then look at the manuafacturers profit margin in relation, and you'll see there's a much large turnover available for "shite, quick food"

vickpea. the evidence is mixed (if I'm honest) there is plenty to say that we are "fatter" however there's also studies that show as much as obesity is dangerous, being a little overweight could have a protective element. There's less heart disease. (less smoking mostly) there's more leisure time, and more people are filling that with activity and sport. We are living longer, chronic diseases that killed our parents and grandparents are less prevalent, statins have had a major impact on health and stroke is more understood and more people expect to recover from it.

These are population based observations, there are things that killed our forefathers in vast numbers that practically don't exist anymore, so yeah, chubby people everywhere, but it doesn't follow that those people are leading "less healthy" lives than our grandparents.

EDIT: It is true to say that we are "differently unhealthy" than our grandparents, but it isn't true to say we are "less healthy"

There's definitely a problem with people being sedentary these days. If you drive everywhere and have a sedentary job, a couple of gym sessions a week isn't going to cut it.
I started a debate on FB about how we might reduce car use, especially for short journeys and although some of my friends agreed, many others were outraged at the thought of a 1-mile each way walk to the shop, or made loads of excuses. You can make excuses all you like, but it's your health not mine.
A woman at work has been using a fit bit or something, which tells her what and when to eat, and she goes to some fancy exercise classes but struggles to walk up the small hill to our office.

Very nicely put.

Sedentry living is a massive killer, and is set to get muuuuuucch worse as the more current (and therefore more sedate) generation gets older.

One of the main issues is that people do not think that a little walking here and there will make a difference- they think that the only exercise that is worth anything is smashing it down the gym. Research is showing otherwise, and while going to the gym is certainly a good idea, it is the lack of daily moderate activity that is killing stupidly large amounts of people.

How to protect yourself from a whole host of nasty diseases by sitting on your arse for 23 1/2 hours a day:

We had no computer games and kids TV only a couple of hours a day. I spent my childhood doing gymnastics and playing out - football in the street, riding bikes, roaming round the woods etc. As did everyone else! My parents live in the street I grew up in and although kids live there, you don't see them playing out.

There's no room for kids to play out in the street as they're full of parked cars now.

We're increasingly trapped in a convenience bubble driven by the demands of modern life. People can't be bothered, or feel too tired or bereft of the time to make good food for an evening meal, prepare decent lunches or take the time to walk or cycle rather than drive.

As an aside, I've found that by rustling sweet papers in meetings I can get the larger individuals to eat almost on command. 😈

the demands of modern life

Modern life has been shaped by capitalism. Everyone's life ends up being on the edge of collapse, people doing the most they can possibly fit in without burning out.

people doing the most they can possibly fit in without burning out.

I sort of agree, but think that, for many, making the steps to eat better and exercise a little might mean they find they're not quite so close to collapse.

Presumably those who "don't have time to make proper food" do something useful with that time or do they then just vegetate in front of the telly watching "Britain's got F all Talent"?

Anecdotal evidence: my commute is roughly the same time whether I ride my bike, drive the car or use public transport(train)

But those are choices, I counter

Yes, but my point was eluding to the typical day in the life of a London worker, based on prevalence of availability and what I have observed when heading to our London HQ.
Do you think you are in the majority or minority with your dietary choices?

You really think only Londoners are vain and shallow enough for that?

I think the people on the streets of London walk more... I can't comment on what the people who are sat in their cars look like.

I've found that by rustling sweet papers in meetings I can get the larger individuals to eat almost on command

Feeder!

Back to my original point, I don't see how 30mins of walking necessarily offsets the 'average' Brits' calorific surplus - i'd argue that an additional fitness regime would be required to maintain or lose weight. On average.

i'm amazed at the amount of treats/ special occasions people think it's normal to have.

it's my birthday, it's your birthday, i'm sure it's someones birthday. Christmas, Easter, The weekend. Monday, Friday, hump day. Coffee morning, Health and safety meeting etc etc.

I feel anti-social at times for avoiding cakes/ sweets but it's every other day in the office and everytime i see a family member!

I think the people on the streets of London walk more... I can't comment on what the people who are sat in their cars look like.

In central London there are hardly any people sat in cars, because there are very few cars. Thousands of pedestrians and cyclists though.

I sort of agree, but think that, for many, making the steps to eat better and exercise a little might mean they find they're not quite so close to collapse.

Hmm.. maybe for some. But I think for most people the pressures of modern life are mental, and sweet tasty comfort food actually helps the mental state - in the short term. For most, self-denial of delicious food is simply yet another stressful thing they have to deal with in their life.

Some years ago I watched a programme on the obesity crisis in the States. One of the case studies they highlighted was an insurance company in the mid-west who had a private health scheme and who were concerned at the large number of employees who were using it for "lifestyle" problems. So they got a consultant in.

The corporate headquarters was one of those sprawling campus style affairs that Americans seem to go for and covered about a square mile (probably a whole block). The consultants did three things:

1. Each employee had an assigned parking space so they moved these as far from that employee's desk as they could.

2. They disabled the lifts.

3. They removed all chairs from the meeting rooms.

Now the employees who were interviewed were still "big" (being extremely polite here) but said that in six months they'd lost over 100lbs.

As far as the company was concerned the changes cost very little: a couple of guys moving name plates around and printing maps showing someone's new parking space was the biggest expense. But the results were pretty good. Of course they'd do better if they'd removed the daily doughnut trolly 8)

sweet tasty comfort food actually helps the mental state

But so could exercise?

Or taking pride in cooking delicious food?

Comfort food gives only a temporary mental boost. In the long run it can be detrimental if scoffed every day, without compromise or exercise.

But so could exercise?

Or taking pride in cooking delicious food?

Yeah but you are missing the point. You can grab a chocolate bar any time, any where, and eat it in minutes. You can exercise if you have time, you can cook a great meal at home, but that doesn't help during the day when you are stressed does it?

Plus, you can pridefully cook delicious and very unhealthy food quite easily.

Comfort food gives only a temporary mental boost.

Of course. Then when it runs out, you want more. Have you really never experienced anything like this?

sounds like you have quite the sugar addiction!

I might well do yes, but I'm not alone.

At least I'm trying to do something about it.

Chapeau to you Molly.

It certainly doesn't help the addicted to have huge jars of free sweets right next to the basket of free fruit in an office kitchen, does it?

You can't exercise away a bad diet, it's not really possible.

1000 surplus calories a day is going to take about 2 hours of exercise to cancel out.

Very few people have the time to do 2 hours of exercise. Lots of people put away 1000 surplus calories.

Exercise certainly helps with weight loss and helps a lot with general health but for weight loss on its own its a flawed idea.

But then we all know this.

EDIT.

I know this because I exercise plenty but have some shitty eating habits.
This bag of Dortios isn't really for sharing is it?.

I only lose weight if I cut out the crap. But sometimes its carby goodness is oh so tempting!

You can't exercise away a bad diet, it's not really possible.
1000 surplus calories a day is going to take about 2 hours of exercise to cancel out.

it may not be easy but it is doable
Personally I eat both superbly well and then carb load with chips cakes and biscuits
Pretty sure i consume around 1000 extra calories of crap a day

It certainly doesn't help the addicted to have huge jars of free sweets right next to the basket of free fruit in an office kitchen, does it?

Exactly.

Of course alcohol addiction has terrible consequences and I'm not suggesting they are problems of the same magnitude, but I think there are parallels between the two. If you worked with a recovering alcoholic you wouldn't bring loads of booze into an office or have booze vending machines all over the place, would you? Eating tasty snacks is so normal, everyone does it, and it's self-reinforcing. One sweetie doesn't satisfy, it makes you want more sweet things. Both your brain and your metabolism start wanting more.

Plus it affects everyone differently. I know people who can eat a cake at a coffee break and are still skinny as hell. It looks like such a normal thing that it makes me feel like a freak. Which doesn't help of course.

And the fact that the other good behaviour, exercising, goes hand in hand. The more exercise I do the more carby food I want to eat.

You can't exercise away a bad diet, it's not really possible.
1000 surplus calories a day is going to take about 2 hours of exercise to cancel out.

You negated your own point

I guess i did

How about:

You can exercise away a bad diet but its not remotely practical for the vast majority of the population and reducing your calorie intake would be a much easier way to lose weight

Just been watching 'Further Back in Time for Dinner'.
This week set in the 1940's and the interesting point for me was that in the late 40's, after almost a decade of harsh rationing combined with scientific nutritional education the British people were the healthiest they had ever been.
Fast forward 80 yrs & look at us..

Sure, but the 1940s were an outlier. Go back to earlier in the 20th century, and the middle classes were gorging themselves on vast quantities of meat, while the working classes were getting whichever cheap calories they could find, such as bread and margarine.

Personally I eat both superbly well

Any bacon in that Junky?

Personally I eat both superbly well and then carb load with chips cakes and biscuits
Pretty sure i consume around 1000 extra calories of crap a day

I'd guess you have a genetic predisposition to be extremely skinny.

Sure, but the 1940s were an outlier. Go back to earlier in the 20th century, and the middle classes were gorging themselves on vast quantities of meat, while the working classes were getting whichever cheap calories they could find, such as bread and margarine.

That was kinda my point, when left to its own devices, the population (when it could afford to) ate massive amounts of unhealthy foods, the poor ate smaller amounts of extremely unhealthy foods in the main.

Rationing forced the population to eat better/more healthy by spreading the good stuff (veg etc) around to all sectors of society, resulting in a healthier population.

As for the earlier point about folk working hard, I have a physical factory job & im still slim at 9 stone & 49yrs old.
Most of my friends are somewhat 'challenged' in the waistlines in comparison - certainly those in office jobs.

When I worked for Lindt in Oloron we all had a kg a month free, and a factory shop where the prices were very reasonable if a kg wasn't enough. There was also no attempt to stop workers eating misshapes, products with damaged packaging etc. while working. It was only considered bad form to munch stuff that was perfect. The management was quite happy; regarding the constant tasting as quality control.

Despite all that access to free chocolate the workers weren't fat. If they had all walked along Hinkley high Street they'd have stood out as the slim ones.

@edukator I've heard similar tales before about chocolate factories - basically the first couple of weeks on the line people munch what they can then basically get sick of it and rarely touch the stuff after that.

Despite all that access to free chocolate the workers weren't fat.

My Mum had a summer job at Rowntrees of York as a student. Their policy on the production line was that you could eat as much as you wanted. After the first day she was so sick of sugared almonds she never ate anything off the line again. No-one did.

TBH, I'm not sure I'd like to put that to the test - I adore chocolate & put me in that environment & I may just do a 'Mr Creosote'...

molgrips - Member
I'd guess you have a genetic predisposition to be extremely skinny.

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molgrips- of course I like chocolate, cake and other junk food, and I don't have a perfect diet. But, I have long experience of intermittent depression, and I work hard to manage it so I use willpower to not over-indulge because I know what makes me feel better in the long-run.

You're aware though of what can happen to willpower at times..?

I spend half my week in London, and half in the North.

My observation is that people are generally slimmer in London. I attribute that to three things: everyday much more self-propelled movement, a younger than average population, social convention.

I stay fairly near the office. Walking to and from work and doing nothing else/going nowhere else easily gets me 30 mins of brisk walking.

What I've noticed as I spend more time there is the desire to walk more: so, if I'm going somewhere (meeting/social activity) I'll consider walking as the first option or design in a longer walk. When I take the tube I stand.

I'm also much more conscious that I'm overweight vs the significant majority of people I work with. When I return to the Northern offices I see many more fat people. As far as I can work out the demographics (class/age/etc.) aren't materially different.

Because I can't exercise meaningfully these days, I'm on a long term change to my eating habits. One stone down, two more to go....

Molgrips- of course I am aware of what can happen to willpower at times, including my own.
The point I'm trying to make is that if I exert certain amount of willpower that allows me to eat a certain amount of junk but not too much, it is good for me!

Walking to and from work and doing nothing else/going nowhere else easily gets me 30 mins of brisk walking.

The other thing that happens in London is that people don't just walk, they speed march everywhere. It's bonkers. And not a bad workout either.

The point I'm trying to make is that if I exert certain amount of willpower that allows me to eat a certain amount of junk but not too much, it is good for me!

Me too - until something changes and I'm back in the doldrums...

Different people with different lives, different bodies, different genetics, different ages, different tolerances. You can paint with a broad brush but there's no one size fits all solution.

Are we talking about the City of London, or 'London' here? No one lives in the middle bit - there's 10million buggers gathered around the edge, and I can promise you, the high streets are literally crawling with fatties

I'm usually in the middle, the City. A lot of the people you see are indeed affluent commuters, but there are also plenty of locals around who seem slim. Perhaps the fat ones are all on the sofa watching telly so I never see them.