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Bit of context first: my missus just came back from a Sunday morning brunch with some of her mates and informed me and our kids of some important information she had had related and discussed with her friends.
Long and short of it is that on Friday a man was apparently arrested after chasing girls outside of a school in another suburb of town, allegedly a knife was found on this bloke, and now apparently he's out on bail and has been spotted in our area within the last 24 hours... That's the narrative at least.
So rather than jump on the fear bandwagon, I asked a few more questions, who exactly is sharing this information? Do you actually know them? Have you verified this by looking at any local and/or national news websites?
In order to address my questions I'm shown a screenshot of someone's phone with WhatsApp open, some text describing this alleged maniac a photo of a scruffy looking fella in a hoody (predictably brown skinned and bearded) alongside a separate blury image of a police car. At this point it's really not passing the sniff test for me.
So I set to the wider interwebz and find zero corroboration, even the local rag that would be all over such a story like shit on a blanket. The only thing vaguely similar is a report from Suffolk a week or so ago about someone outside a school chasing kids...
I relay my lack of any findings and my worry that this is actually RW shit stirring on FB groups, picking topics that they know will trigger the users, and I get a "maybe"...
I'm about 80/20 it's bullshit, but she's just so incurious, so won't even look at the associations/links of the posters. she thinks I'm being "soft" on potential risks to our kids. Every other week she seems to relate another story for one of the various local FB 'gossip girls' groups and I'm wondering more and more how true some of the doom and gloom stories actually are.
I've all but sacked off FB, the app is closed most of the time and I log in maybe once every six months to check for births, deaths and divorces and then spend a week feeling icky.
Is my missus in the pipeline now? She really can't fathom my attitude. She acknowledges FB is a cesspit, but its still one of her most used apps the veracity of the crap on there worries her less than the possibility some of it might be true...
Two things.
1) I concur with you that it's bollocks. The square root of no-one runs around schools in broad daylight chasing schoolgirls with a knife only to be arrested and then immediately released into the public again without a whiff of it being in the media or the accused even being named. It would be national news. This didn't happen so hard that it unhappened things that did.
2) Assuming for the sake of argument that it isn't bollocks, what are people expected to do with this information? Like and share? Any "potential risks to our kids" are already out there, knowing about one doesn't lessen the risk from the other 15 you don't know about.
Two more things.
3) Facebook isn't the problem. Your partner associating with morons is the problem.
4) Wash your blankets.
Read a topical comment on 'fesshole' just now, funnily enough...
I've spent 20yrs working for some of the world's largest social media firms and the fact is most people don't comment. So when the Internet is 'blowing up' about something, it's largely meaningless. Everyone would do well to remember that.
It's bollocks. Some random screenshot is not a verifiable source of anything.
If there are actually issues, the school will say something.
A few years ago I became aware at a Glasgow primary school about that old classic - rumours of a man in a van asking young girls if they wanted to see some puppies.
It was bottomed out by the police and it turned out to be a man who was looking for his lost dog.
Over the course of the next few weeks the rumour did a geographically clockwork spread round the local primary schools before reappearing at the same school, where it was again reported as a further corroborative sighting of the dangerous criminal.
If it lines up with their fears and worries people will believe anything, and no amount of tamping it down seems to help. "It's better to be safe than sorry" is the classic phrase.
Local Facebook is terrible for this. Every Christmas it's high alert because there's been guys trying car doors. "It's scary how common it is these days". Again, it's been happening forever, and happens all the time, but back in the day you only knew about it if it was in your street, and now you are aware of every ring doorbell sighting in a five mile radius.
2) Assuming for the sake of argument that it isn’t bollocks, what are people expected to do with this information? Like and share?
Pretty much.
It's a sensationalist engagement tool. Lots of people will skim read it, see the "like and share if you agree" and do exactly that. I unfriended a fair few people who were routinely doing that "like and share" with all sorts of sensationalist crap or similar "look at the fluffy [insert baby animal], like and share if you want to protect them..."
The targeted ads in advance of the Brexit referendum made use of a lot of this engagement stuff. Cambridge Analytica used a whole raft of "news" to find what people were sharing then created stories around "staying in the EU means polar bears will die / peados will chase your children / migrants will take your jobs; vote leave" targeted to the right accounts.
Weaponised scare-mongering.
Repeated recently with calls for the death penalty after the trial of the Southport murderer.
Worth doing a reverse image search on the pic in the screenshot to see if it's been lifted from somewhere else
Not sure what the real question is?
Are you asking if you should lock up your children until Facebook says it’s safe to go out again , or that your Mrs is nuts to be influenced by this , or nutters exist in the world, hopefully no one ever has the misfortune of being in front of one
My FB isn't a cesspit, but there's some nutters on the local Spotted groups.
Agree this is bollocks - we had a genuine incident of people hanging round a local school and trying to entice kids into a van and while Spotted went mental, the school and Police pages backed it up.
Subsequent similar posts have either been uncorroborated bollocks or a tragic custody dispute that got very out of hand.
See also regular reports of vans driven by Asian/Eastern European men going slowly looking at houses to steal your dogs.
Is my missus in the pipeline now? She really can’t fathom my attitude. She acknowledges FB is a cesspit, but its still one of her most used apps the veracity of the crap on there worries her less than the possibility some of it might be true…
Facebook is becoming a cesspool of clickbait and conspiracy theories... It may not have had the radical acceleration in this respect that Twitter had when Elon bought it, but Zukerberg's recent submission to Trump's aristocracy and the removal of fact checking has accelerated its descent into depravity somewhat...
But this isn't new... Facebook interference in the 2016 US election and the UK Brexit referendum was a known phenomenon, not by Facebook or its stakeholders itself, but by them sitting on the sidelines allowing the spread of disinformation by those with vested interests... I have watched friends that until even 2yrs ago were quite liberal, become rampant seething immigrant haters and vocal Farage/Trump supporters! It's ALL about the clickbait, and getting people to react to it!
Fear is a control mechanism, and weaponising fear is very lucrative and good for business. Just ask Elon Musk if there's any such thing as bad publicity...
Facebook isn’t the problem. Your partner associating with morons is the problem.
Until recently I would have agreed and argued the case... But having witnessed Twitter's accelerated descent into depravity under Elon, and Zuck's final submission of control of Facebook to Trump, then I would now wholeheartedly disagree. Some of the cleverest people I know have been consumed by the algorithms designed to radicalise and enslave them to a cause. It's brainwashing, pure and simple, but it is happening full scale under the current far right wing cults! One of my very good friends who is not only very intelligent but a very high earner is now sharing "great replacement theory" mantra all over facebook and has been convinced into believing that immigration into the UK is all about wiping out white people, and that Keir Starmer is the ring leader of this cult designed to wipe him out!!!
Social media has destroyed the power of critical thinking, and is consuming even some of societies most intelligent people.
Question everything... Check your sources... Don't take anything for granted... If enough of us start doing this, then we will begin to rescue society back from the far right wing doom cults that are proliferating our society right now. But that's going to take a black swan event I fear to highlight to most people, just how much they have allowed themselves to be consumed by the doctrine of these cults, and history tells us that it usually takes a world war, a severe famine or a plague (COVID didn't do the job even!) to cause the required enforced socialism (think US economy under FDR during WW2) to cause the end of these cults and reignite social prosperity.
Strap yourselves in for a bumpy ride folks, the next 10-15yrs are going to be rough!
OP can I ask where you're located broadly?
Part of my research is on the far right. This exact conspiracy was doing the rounds in Cheshire last week. It is 100% false if it relates to a school in Cheshire/South Manchester
Can we stop with the “Facebook hasn’t been used to radicalize me, so what’s the problem” responses to stuff like this. Real damage is being done to many people, in many countries… you can be skipped but that doesn’t mean this isn’t happening, or that everyone it happens to only has themselves to blame… the owners of our public online spaces are to blame.
3) Facebook isn’t the problem. Your partner associating with morons is the problem.
You might have a bit of a point there, some of them are prone to accepting 'information' without questioning. I think perhaps FB is the catalyst. I'm probably just frustrated because she puts so much less stock in my judgement than the gossiping ****wits she had breakfast with, or indeed some strangers (presumably fans of Tommy tens names) on the internet.
I just can't believe that they're all unable to do a wee bit of surface level checking though, they're not all stupid (some do seem a bit given to more right of centre views though).
Trouble is if she's this bad at picking friends, what does that say about her choice of spouse?
Thanks Kelvin, I was about to say the same, but far less politely.
OP can I ask where you’re located broadly?
Part of my research is on the far right. This exact conspiracy was doing the rounds in Cheshire last week. It is 100% false if it relates to a school in Cheshire/South Manchester
Reading, where of course we had the Forbury Gardens attack in 2020 (amongst other things), so fear of knife crime is a bit of a pressure point with parents in the area.
The FB group apparently claimed it was a school in Tilehurst (an outer suburb, to the west of the town), and now apparently claims the "suspect" has been spotted roaming elsewhere in town... For clarity it is utterly pissing it down here right now so there's probably a real lack of potential victims, and pneumonia might do the vigilante's job for them in this rapidly evolving fantasy...
The targeted ads in advance of the Brexit referendum made use of a lot of this engagement stuff. Cambridge Analytica used a whole raft of “news” to find what people were sharing then created stories around “staying in the EU means polar bears will die / peados will chase your children / migrants will take your jobs; vote leave” targeted to the right accounts.
Weaponised scare-mongering.
Yep, gathering data for the next election, the problem with this targeted stuff is we don’t actually see it and are unaware of what total shite is being fed to our friends and family, till it’s too late.
Always puzzled by these assertions that Facebook/Social media is a cesspit full of hate and nutjobs.
I made the mistake of commenting on a nutjob thread that appeared on my feed for some reason or other. Since then my account has been absolutely awash with insanity of every shape and size, with topics I am actually interested in, political or otherwise, rendered invisible. So up to a while ago I'd have agreed with you, but it only takes a small gap in the fence for the vermin to come swarming in.
It happens both ways and on all platforms... just the other day a thing was doing the rounds on reddit, 'Trump has made an executive order stopping all millitary assistance to Ukraine, effective immediatly' or words to that effect.
My immidiate thought reading it was 'not supprised, but really?' nothing on the major news outlets... turns out it was BS, but it was spreading like wild fire for a day or so, it seems to have been shut down now as I'm not seeing it any more.
Can we stop with the “Facebook hasn’t been used to radicalize me, so what’s the problem” responses to stuff like this.
I often wonder when claims are made like those, that maybe they are part of the cesspit so don’t see it. I don’t mean those on here for clarification.
The photo you’re talking about is probably the same as the that has been shared on Facebook comments pages I’ve seen, none of those posting it have been able to say where they sourced it.
Trouble is if she’s this bad at picking friends, what does that say about her choice of spouse?
Hmm more worrying is yer missus is being radicalised 🙂
Trouble is emotive subjects around kids tend to make people go fruiti-loop , whether it’s fact or fiction .
Especially after the unthinkable happens and there’s currently a few people who are quite happy to run with this currently and stir up the racial hatred for their own benefit, future votes or even clickbait to just use it to put more adds in your face :-(.
The photo you’re talking about is probably the same as the that has been shared on Facebook comments pages I’ve seen, none of those posting it have been able to say where they sourced it.
I think what you have are lots of adjacent bubbles, they pick local FB groups with middle-aged, parents fitting the broad demographic profiles and insert a few shit posters. There's not real appetite for checking or verification, responses are immediate and emotional in nature. And while there might be no direct fallout, it contributes towards those group member's picture of the world and plays on their fears, obviously to nudge them rightwards...
Well said @kelvin !
Much less serious than some of the info but close to home for me...
My Mum (thankfully) doesn't do FB but the local group is highly vocal and critical of the Low Traffic Neighbourhoods, parking permit zones etc and they've spent years sharing all sorts of conspiracy shite on FB which people have screenshotted and posted on the community WhatsApp group (which she is on).
So, indirectly, she's been exposed to all this:
15-minute cities
ambulances have been delayed by 18-hrs and 47 people have DIED as a result of these road closures
cyclists are using the closed roads as a racetrack and have mown down 29 elderly people
the disabled are dying in droves because their carers are now stuck in permanent gridlock and can't reach them...
It's all total bollocks but she's been swept along with it. (The roads are not closed at all, there's one filter, you can still access everywhere except for driving through one single junction). No fact checking, no critical thinking - they see a photo of an ambulance parked at this LTN filter and immediately claim it's been blocked from attending a disabled war veteran in distress, like and share if you think the council should be locked up for crimes against humanity.
It's causing serious rift since I work in transport - every video call we have ends up with her ranting about traffic, bloody cyclists (no road tax you know?!), gridlock, it's a socialist conspiracy...
Without that FB nonsense, she might be a bit miffed about having to drive this way instead of that way when she leaves the area but otherwise wouldn't care.
So up to a while ago I’d have agreed with you, but it only takes a small gap in the fence for the vermin to come swarming in.
Yup and its something which has been noticed by researchers (including facebooks own).
The algorithms seem to have rabbit hole tendancies where if you make the mistake of interacting with a moron you get a triple helping of similar crap which if you continue to interact gets more and more nutty.
"Carol’s Journey to QAnon" being facebooks study. They dont seem to have fixed it.
The algorithms seem to have rabbit hole tendancies where if you make the mistake of interacting with a moron you get a triple helping of similar crap which if you continue to interact gets more and more nutty.
YouTube has similar far-right / conspiracy "suggestions" seemingly as a default. Classic example is that looking for educational stuff on astronomy, space exploration, the planets etc will invariably throw a host of Flat Earth / moon landing bollocks at you.
Humans have got rabbit hole tendencies. The algorithm just exploits them.
- The reason that social media have been half hearted about content moderation is because if they do it, it kills their business model.
- Similarly if they stop it serving up crap (which again is doubtful that they can actually do) then it kills their business model.
Facebook is full of right ring AND left wing crazies.
Doppelganger by Naomi Klein is the book that you want to read for a great overview of the online conspiracy and disinformation world.
@mjsmke - true, although I believe the right slightly out number the left.
Doppelganger by Naomi Klein is the book
Yup, I would also recommend broken code which looks specifically at Facebook and its problems managing content.
Heh funnily enough I’m just binning my FB off.
Have a listen to ‘The Rest Is Classified’ latest podcast, they discuss China classing the brain as the new warfare front and how they’re hacking and ‘weaponising’ algorithms to subtlety brainwash people. Sounds tinfoil-hatty but really makes you think (heh!)
although I believe the right slightly out number the left.
It is more that they are promoting the right wing ideology, it isn't just an accident of the algorithm any more, it is deliberate act to shape the political landscape for the benefit of the super wealthy.
YouTube has similar far-right / conspiracy “suggestions” seemingly as a default. Classic example is that looking for educational stuff on astronomy, space exploration, the planets etc will invariably throw a host of Flat Earth / moon landing bollocks at you.
Ain't that the truth...if I hunt out some of what I would call 'proper documentaries' you then get suggestions served up with a load of 'aliens built the pyramids' crap thats better suited to be on a 3am on the history channel! Either that or a bunch of lazy crap where someone has spliced up a load of other 'real' documentaries and added thier own voice over... urgh...
Can we stop with the “Facebook hasn’t been used to radicalize me, so what’s the problem” responses to stuff like this
It's a valid question to raise though. Like MCTD my Facebook is a nice place, a few too many ads, ok a lot too many, but other than that it's my friends doing running and bike stuff, some holiday snaps and pictures of their pets. There's some unsolicited stuff in there but that's mostly WRC clips, fail army stuff and chess puzzles.
So why do some people get far right stuff and some of us get rally cars and board games? Serious question. I have a vague interest in rallying and chess but I'm not in any groups or anything for them. I do have an interest in conspiracy theories (interest does not imply belief) and love a good UFO/yeti/time traveller story but I don't get those on my Facebook
Part of the problem with social media is that if you dare to "swim against the tide" you get a right roasting or worse, even happens on here to an extent, so most of the sensible voices are never seen or heard in the real sess pit viral shit
Serious question.
If the algorithms were open/transparent we could look and tell you. But who knows why content is aimed towards you or not. You could be lucky. Miss out due to age. Geographic location. School. But most likely it’s a combination of networks and proximities… and you don’t choose all your network, unless you’re the type blocking all your relatives and workmates no matter what. So, yeah, partly luck. Not all down to your own behaviour. Despite the way some smug posters seem to believe it is.
Can we stop with the “Facebook hasn’t been used to radicalize me, so what’s the problem” responses to stuff like this. Real damage is being done to many people, in many countries… you can be skipped but that doesn’t mean this isn’t happening, or that everyone it happens to only has themselves to blame… the owners of our public online spaces are to blame.
OK, seems fair....but .
There are people typing above who have seen the same shit as the OP's wife and have not been drawn in. Many of us are able to see through it. Why? Or rather what is wrong with these people that can't step back and take a rational overview before falling for thinking it's true? What makes them the mugs they are? In this case is it that the OP is predisposed to think the world broadly safe so see this stuff and immediately doubts it and this little dit has unveiled a deep seated distrust of the world around her so she is predisposed to be all histrionic?
There's an obvious correlation to broader politics and 'high profile' political figures. There are clearly some very unpleasant people out there yanking chains, but by god do 'we' make it so easy for them.
Many of us are able to see through it.
It’s like scams. Many of us can see and avoid the majority of scams. But the right one will get you eventually. Don’t look down on those who fall for the ones others can avoid. Everyone can be scammed. But blindspots vary. Remember that it is scammers and those who allow them to operate who are the problem, not people who get caught up in their plots.
It’s a valid question to raise though.
It isnt really though if you spend anytime looking at it. I recommend "broken code" for an indepth read. Failing that the various articles from Jeff Horwitz and others from about 2019-20 on the "facebook files" show the problem.
If you dont really interact with facebook and just use if for very limited purposes then it will probably be fine. Mine is because I barely use aside from a few clubs/companies which cant be arsed with an alternative option. Start interacting beyond that though with friends of friends and good chance it will end in tears.
I would say start looking for facebook groups on conspiracy theories but I would feel bad since chances are it will ruin your account.
Not having a go at you, but are all those examples of LTN actual responses or are you just summarizing and putting your own spin on it for effect?
Do two wrongs make a right? 😉
There's a potential credibility gap that the village idiots can resort to if "we" (the leftish/sane people) aren't scruplous in our "own reporting" of whichever form of reporting that takes (and that includes here). I do like good take down though 🙂
I would say start looking for facebook groups on conspiracy theories but I would feel bad since chances are it will ruin your account.
I've avoided that because I just know it will be all flat earthers and anti-vaxers and not, for instance, a serious discussion about what the latest release of files on the JKF assassination says. I'll wait for some more reputable journalists to read them all and then read what they have to say about it (there's far too many for me to read!)
There's a YouTube channel on them which I follow, a semi-serious one, but he does spend a lot of time trying to debunk various conspiracy theories, and usually they're rubbish. But as he says 'if we can disprove 99% of them, that makes the other 1% all the more interesting' Have a look for things like MK Ultra or Paul Bennowicz if you want some which turned out to be true. But most are, at best exaggerations, mostly erroneous, and sometimes just deliberate deception.
I’ve avoided that because I just know it will be all flat earthers and anti-vaxers and not, for instance, a serious discussion about what the latest release of files on the JKF assassination says
Which is the problem. You did but you need to be erring on paranoia (somewhat ironic when we are talking about conspiracy theories) about tracking and be not looking inside facebook at their groups and then also using a private browser, minimum , to try and stop facebook tracking you in order for it to decide you aint prone to that crap.
Even then you are dependent on the reputable journalist not linking to someone with "look at this idiot" since if you click on it you start getting served that crap.
I do like conspiracy theories but I treat it like porn. Only in a private session and on vpn and to be honest the serious players can still probably track me.