Like someone very clever earlier mentioned (me!), fornt wings should be a constant profile. Like so.
Back when that McLaren was launched F1 fans of the 60s/70s were also moaning about how technology was ruining F1 with their fancy new-fangled carbon fibre.
F1 has always been a technology formula.
Even Indycar has crazy aero!...
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Merc will have done 2 race distances by the end of today!
[quote=PJM1974 ]
I don't know how you'd wind the clock back, F1 really has been a sign of the times depending on which era you look at.
In this case it's easy. Just set some rules for the shape and number of elements on the front wing. I'd be happy with the constant profile idea shown in the McLaren above. I guess there's an argument that it reduces the opportunity for a smaller, less well-funded, team to come up with some innovation but it does that actually happen very much these days?
Isn't the drag coefficient of an F1 something awful? Doesn't exactly play into the eco-weenie ideals they are claiming with the [s]engines[/s] power trains
That's part of the problem, virtually every single change that has been touted as helping to ease the burden on the less well of teams has done precisely the opposite. An embargo on testing and wind tunnels has merely resulted in the teams buying huge amounts of processing power to simulate instead. Four engine manufacturers wishing to explore the potential of hybrid power trains has ensured that an engine supply costs £20m a year and a large number of potential engine manufacturers simply cannot be bothered anymore.
Long gone are the days when a high-achieving F3 team could have a friendly chat with Brian Hart, John Judd or Ford, build a chassis and rock up to pre season testing with a couple of hotshoe drivers. The last team that I can recall who did this was Jordan, back in 1991...
Bloody hell..... Rose tinted glasses and all that ...... The whole of the 90s was dominated by..... Williams and Mclaren, 2000 by Ferrari, using special tyres diffusers you name it. It's an old an old argument done to death, move on ffs!
quick question.. why is the 2015 sauber running mid pack in testing?
What are your thoughts on todays testing so far? Looks like Renault / Manor still have a bit of work to do.
Too early to say.
Manor looks OK from where they were last season, not propping up the timesheets.
Sauber pace - car is a known quantity, so they don't need to bed it in, so can run at a higher pace?
McLaren - Honda looks more reliable already. A race distance on the first day is a good start.
We'll see a bit more about pace when they do a qualifying run later in the week.
set some rules for the shape and number of elements on the front wing.
+1
I'd also change the rules so certain non-structural elements were banned, such as bargeboards and turning vanes. It may not help over taking, but one of the things about F1 is the cars need to look good, and currently the 24 hour Le Mans cars look better IMO.
I'd be happy to see an increase in testing and scrap the engine tokens.
Id say todays results are way too early to draw real conclusions from.
Bloody hell..... Rose tinted glasses and all that ...... The whole of the 90s was dominated by..... Williams and Mclaren, 2000 by Ferrari, using special tyres diffusers you name it. It's an old an old argument done to death, move on ffs!
Erm, that's kind of exactly what I was saying, if you'd care to reread my previous post instead of swearing at me. 🙄
...the cars need to look good, and currently the 24 hour Le Mans cars look better IMO.
This years Audi R18 - no aero on that, oh wait!...
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...and as pretty as a not very pretty thing! 😀
Isn't the drag coefficient of an F1 something awful? Doesn't exactly play into the eco-weenie ideals they are claiming with the engines power trains
Well, they do want to go round corners quickly as well, so that's a bit of a straw man. Personally I think it's pretty impressive that they are already using a third less fuel than they were a couple of years ago. I don't think for a minute that anybody involved is really motivated by concern for the planet but I think it's reasonable to claim that what they're doing is going to really help road cars be a lot more efficient in the next few years.
Porsche looked better. But of course they have aero, as someone pointed out you can't put it back in the box, but you can limit the amount of silly little sticky out bits and in doing so make the cars look less fussy.
Personally I think it's pretty impressive that they are already using a third less fuel than they were a couple of years ago. I don't think for a minute that anybody involved is really motivated by concern for the planet but I think it's reasonable to claim that what they're doing is going to really help road cars be a lot more efficient in the next few years.
The Mercedes "engine" is now something like 50% efficient. A figure that is quite frankly staggering.
If one team has 100M to spend on going faster then they will spend it wherever they can in the rules so unless you regulate f1 to be even more of a spec series the big spenders will always spend money. If that makes them go faster and stops a little spender from getting a win then that's the way it (mosyly) has been. How do you get to be a big spender? By being consistently better than you should be for the money you're spending and then attracting more sponsorship and prize money.
I've said it before but the biggest problem f1 has is people saying there's a problem with f1. The whole 5 seconds faster thing is baloney, it's not going to make passing in F1 any easier than it ever has been.
And what have we learned today? Nothing, it's only testing. The only true comparison starts on Saturday afternoon in Australia.
Sounds like Bernie is trying the Gerald Ratner approach now! 😀
Imagine Mercs data from today. I wonder howfreshLH was and what tune they were running.
MrSalmon - Member
Well, they do want to go round corners quickly as well, so that's a bit of a straw man.
That's a pretty defeatest comment. Right now they corner at a certain speed so you've got the options of looking at changing that speed or changing how it's achieved. I'd be more than happy with reduced corner speeds, with increased straight line speeds. Which would lead to decrease in dirty air, increased braking distances and.... potentially.... increased chances of overtaking without gimmicks 😯
The last team that I can recall who did this was Jordan, back in 1991...
Stewart Racing I believe, so marginally less depressing at 1997 (from F3000)
Look at the rake on that!...
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https://twitter.com/piusgasso/status/701860580555153408
..IMO Red Bull have won the livery war - the matt finish and cleaner graphics look really good on track.
My YouTube trawling is telling me that they still sound mad under closed/part throttle, but not much otherwise. Think they [i]seem[/i] louder but you can't really tell (no point of reference, need 19bozzy92 on the case)
maybe I'm missing something, but if Bernie gets his "reverse grid" plan implemented, why would anyone bother competing for pole position anymore? They'll all be fighting to be 10th!
Sayonara Arai-san!
Falling on sword after yesterday's lack of pace?
More like last year's lack of pace. Too early to tell much yet this year, and IIRC the pus aren't even homologated yet.
Anyone know what the deal is with the A/B mk1/mk2 engine specs for the Honda?
Some people over on Reddit were supposing that one spec is from another team that's not under Arai's control.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/474bb3/bueuf1_three_different_sources_inside_paddock/
So, to cut through the spin, has Arai quit in the light of McHonda's testing times yesterday?
And if the 2016 engine is another pup, what can be done about it?
has Arai quit
Technically, he has been promoted to [url= http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/14828580/arai-set-replaced-head-honda-f1-project ]senior managing officer for R&D.[/url]
Detail on the Merc - some 'unusual' upgrades to come over testing according to Mr Wolff...
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Looks like it is to a degree, as although it is better than last year (couldn't be any worse!), Button has already mentioned it needs improvement.And if the 2016 engine is another pup,
what can be done about it?
Well I think traditionally in Japan you fall on your sword.
my guess is mchonda are probably erring on the side of caution, going for laps as they don't want a repeat of the fiasco of last year when they left testing with virtually no data !
Renault have had years to catch up but still haven't. It's very hard to do with the current token system. Mid-field for tail-end points is IMO the best they can do this season.
McHondas best chance is for 2017 when it's an engine free-for-all.
Vettel and Ricciardodo 1 second faster than last years pole time on same (supersoft compound) tyres. Is that a true measure? Not much they would need to do differently for a quali than a test day, perhaps more willing to risk engines during test or pushing tyres harder given they don't need to race on them the day after.
Also noted that Perez matched last years pole time while on Softs.
Makes me think the tyre changes have made a big difference too.
If Honda have spent all of 2015 producing another pup that can't be fixed until 2017, then the fallout will be immense.
McLaren have struggled for sponsorship as no-one wants to put their name on the slowest car on the grid, plus Ron Dennis has staked his personal reputation on a turnaround in team fortunes. Alonso may well decide to take a sabbatical for 2016, scaring off even more potential sponsors.
For Arai to be "promoted" under such circumstances would be highly unusual, I suspect that the real quality of the power unit is better than first feared, but not quite as good as first hoped.
mercedes are posting cryptic tweets....
A lone tyre man wheeling in his wares can only mean one thing... we think...
are they suggesting they are about to tear the field a new one ? 🙄
Guess they are referring to Palmers mechanics bringing in their kit for the day? i.e. suggesting his engine is completely lunched.are they suggesting they are about to tear the field a new one ?
[edit] see rosberg has gone back out, so you are probably right. Bring the ... pace? [/edit]
nope 🙂 (in answer to my own question)
well thats day 2 done.. any new thoughts?
Mercs are laughing all the way to the bank on the mediums. I wonder how Alonso feels keeping company with renault and torro rosso. I dont think even a change in honda hq could brighten up his day. Haas looking like they have the jump on Manor and a few others.
Joe Saward suggests that arais departure is nothing to do with testing performance yesterday, but is to do with 2016 engine development. Also seems that Honda are planning to run a different spec engine next week then combine the best/least worst bits for the spec they'll take to Oz.
Above all, this time last year weren't Ferrari quickest, so lap times in testing are a meaningless comparison. And it also seems nobody at the sharp end has shown their full hand yet either.
PS weren't today's quickest times set on the purple ultra softs, so should be quicker than last year if they can last a full lap.
Just as in 2015, all eyes are on Alonso...will he walk or won't he?
alonso says "yes" , he will be driving this year 🙂
Although I reckon the sacking of arai may have shown him some commitment to the cause!
How to confuse casual viewers No.567 - nothing wrong with the current qualifying format...
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-teams-agree-elimination-style-qualifying-for-2016-675278/
Err, imagine how complicated that's going to get if there's a crash or other incident during qualifying and they have to suspend it for a while.
It should give a but more interest over the whole period of quali as there will be more occasions where people are fighting to get off the bottom (as opposed to only the last 2 laps of each current phase).
However there will still be big lulls as the faster guys throw out an easy lap and return to the pits for the session, not to mention the times when the bottom car has already given everything it can and when 'eliminated' it has been in the pits for 10min already and the driver is already half way to his hotel.
The time ballast sounds interesting though, especially if its applied during the session. Hamilton trying to put in a flyer to not get stuck behind a sauber 😆
