[Closed] Everywhere is burning or drowning...

Why the f*** are you putting the heating on at 18C? That's part of the problem! Just put a jumper on.

Do you get the feeling that this year has been a little more than just “freak weather”?

Yes, it is climate change. And no getting people to drive electric vehicles in 10 years time and still commissioning fossil fuel projects is not going to cut it. It can only go one way now and that is worse by the year.

now is not only too little, but too late?

Y'think?

Haha.... I've got a jumper on. Ground floor flat, zero insulation beneath us, nothing in the walls, all three of which are external walls.

We need to dramatically reduce the earth's population. Shame these Corona conspiracies are a load of BS eh?

I really fear for my boy's future TBH. :-/

As long as the world keep consuming as it does (especially the meat industry) we better get used to floods, fires, freak weather etc.

I am doing my bit, as many are, but there are more people not..... so i cant see much changing. Its very frustrating and i worry for my kids and their kids.

You've read the Transporter thread. And presumably that big SUV Climate Crisis thread. People don't give shit. They are completely determined to keep living over indulgent lifestyles and not compromise one iota for the good of the planet.

"We'll I MUST own an SUV because I go to the dump once every six months". Oh, right, fine. I'll just look forward to living in the Scottish Sahara when I'm in my eighties.

I was just thinking the same but on a smaller scale about our local weather. It's been quite varied, a few scorching spells and in between rather wet. Yes I fear it's climate change related and extremes of weather will be more and more common

Ground floor flat, zero insulation beneath us, nothing in the walls, all three of which are external walls.

Is that allowed in Germany!?

My sister in Essex has mentioned that they’ve had lots of lightening and thunderstorms. I remember as a kid lightening storms were not that common.

I'm just over the border in Cambridge and I'd say we've had an average amount.

However, yes the climate is changing, as a kid 30+ days were just unheard of, now we seem to have at least a set every summer followed by monsoon like rain.

I suspect we needed to take action 20 years ago to have an impact in our lifetime, a bit like turning a ship, you need to plan ahead, but it wasn't a thing then.

a bit like turning a ship, you need to plan ahead, but it wasn’t a thing then.

People have been warning about it since the 1970s at least.

Are we just going to collectively shrug and carry on with life or are we going to see governments making changes?

Governments are going to continue making announcements and plans while actually doing **** all to address it in real world terms. Meanwhile the planet has more or less thrown the towel in - I reckon in 10-15 years time there'll be regular cataclysmic climate change events. Not just mildly inconvenient killing a few dozen people and flooding a few houses, it'll be multi thousands of directly attributable deaths each time.

Blabbing on about us all driving electric cars by 2040 - it won't be electric cars we need, it'll be Mad Max style vehicles.

18 degrees is t-shirt weather

I really fear for my boy’s future

I'm bloody glad I I've not got kids.

Friends of ours have had their third kid and now bought a Q7..... WTF!?

@grum.... The house we live in was built around 1900. It's under "Denkmalschutz", i.e. a protected building. A charming place to look at, an expensive one to heat.

18 degrees is t-shirt weather

Agreed, however, it's raining cats and dogs. About 16°C inside my gaff.

Generally accepted that we missed the environmental "change" point during the 1970s, this is not discussed in the press as many feel the general population will go " **** it might as well crack on and have fun"

Probably 50 years late..

The only reason Boris is pushing his climate change agenda is because his next shag depends on it.

One thing I imagine will happen also is just that the general quality of infrastructure/public services will decline quite dramatically because of the increased costs involved in repair and maintenance etc.

For example we barely manage to keep many roads well surfaced now, but with repeated rounds of heavy flooding and extreme heat....

Whitestone +1
Munrobiker +1

We’re past the tipping point now, the Amazon producing more CO2 than it takes in, vast swathes of permafrost in the Arctic circle thawing out and releasing huge amounts of CO2 and methane; there’s no turning back from that now.

We’re fudged and it’s all our fault and yet we’re still unwilling to change our way of life. Extreme weather events are going to be more frequent, North Africa and Southern Europe will become inhabitable in my life time, imagine the gammons anger as people escaping try and move to our shores.

Anyone wanting children now really need to have a think about the world you’re choosing to bring them in to

Southampton has been so wet compared to a normal summer, besides that nuts week in mid July of 30C+ days and 22C+ at bedtime.

Certainly seems to have been some crazy weather events globally too.

The end of the world is nigh.

Why the f*** are you putting the heating on at 18C? That’s part of the problem! Just put a jumper on.

Exactly what I was about to say!!! I have my maximum heating temperature set to that in winter!

an expensive one to heat.

I bet it is if you switch your heating on when it is 18deg outside.

We need to dramatically reduce the earth’s population. Shame these Corona conspiracies are a load of BS eh?

I really fear for my boy’s future TBH. :-/

Don't do anything too rash Grum.

Thus is pretty scary... If the gulf stream switches off then we(as in humanity) are royally ****ed

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

Not sure you can blame climate change largely on the meat industry....

Its pretty much irrelevant what the individual does when big corporations continue as normal.

FFS.... 😁

have my maximum heating temperature set to that in winter!

Same! And it's come on because it's cold! Oh, and it only comes on from 8-9 and 16-20....

I really fear for my boy’s future TBH. :-/

There's no way I'd be having children now if I was younger and I really hope never to be a grandparent.

It wasn't a deliberate decision tbh we were using contraception and found out very late!

And yet the solution is very simple:

- leave fossil fuels in the ground

- eliminate livestock farming

- rewild

None of these are happening when it should have started 20 years ago. Instead we find new ways to waste renewably generated energy like bitcoin mining. There’s a reason the billionaires are buggering off to New Zealand.

Anyone wanting children now really need to have a think about the world you’re choosing to bring them in to

Yeah, to the older generations: thanks for that... It's just great having that kind of conundrum forced on you through the inaction and selfish voting intentions of those before you.

Are we just going to collectively shrug and carry on with life or are we going to see governments making changes?

There was a spokesman for the oil and gas industry on radio 4 this morning who literally said 'we are helping the transition to a carbon free energy policy by opening up more oilfields for drilling'

Seriously... WTF?!!

Someone posted a Yes (Prime) Minister clip in another thread yesterday, and it made me think of this... and how it relates to "our" response to the "challenges" of climate change...

when big corporations continue as normal

Which will be the case certainly as long as there's a Conservative government. Which, at this rate, will be for a long time. And it'll keep people spouting out this trope and living by it-

Its pretty much irrelevant what the individual does

To add to the terror of that article Olddog posted, if warming continues we will cross the point where ocean acidification caused by industrialisation destroys the largest CO2 sink we have on the planet (the oceans), dumping vast amounts of CO2 relatively quickly. When that happens it really will be catastrophic.

There’s a reason the billionaires are buggering off to New Zealand.

What's that then Daz?

Same! And it’s come on because it’s cold!

You said in the OP that you put the heating on because it was 18deg which suggests you wanted it to be *warmer* than 18deg which is a perfectly comfortable temperature.

I really fear for my boy’s future TBH. :-/

My kids should be OK - youngest is such a huge fan of dystopian young adult fiction that she's pretty well sorted even if it goes wrong.

Grandchildren will live in a very different world, one way or the other. I'm concerned rather than despairing, that could also go either way.

As for the weather - been a much more normal summer in the Midlands, wetter and cooler than recent years. As a kid I remember regularly being woken up by summer thunderstorms, not had that for many years now.

But if the glitch in the jetstream had been a couple of hundred miles in either direction it would have been a very different summer.

Judging by the forecast, the biblical rain we had overnight is to continue for pretty much the entire weekend. Similar weather last year led to some drainage issues. The guy we had in to fix the drains said he'd been seeing more and more of these issues over the last 20+ years he's been in the business - old drainage systems that can't cope with the increasingly frequent drought/flood cycle.

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence that we need to drastically change our behaviour, we aren't. We've ****ed it.

And here's me considering buying a marginally more efficient car for my meagre miles. Like it will make any difference when the next guy is driving a 4l monster truck to the shops.

humans are not very good at acting on predictions, we just can't be told i plain language what will happen, we need to conceptualise it - why storytelling is important culturally in teaching.
however, one persons truth isn't the others and it seems that if you once believe one truth, which proves false, it's difficult to completely change your mind.
(see this for an example https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds)

we're faced with wildfires, flooding, extreme weather events and, as a society we're only just joining the dots, despite being told for decades, this will happen and will only get worse.

We're looking at a shifting gulf stream, ( https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse) we've known this would happen, but couldn't pin an accurate timescale on it, so it was a problem that may happen later...

we're on target for societal collapse. ( https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/mit-1972-prediction-societal-collapse-b1884673.html)

If you look at the exponential advancements of technology and our understanding of manipulation of the 'elements' it's probably not a surprise that, while we thought we'd rule the universe, we forgot that we're only taking from one place.

anyway, maybe I'm getting a bit patchwork caravan.

but that may also be part of the problem.

My daughter, when she was 19, decided that she was not going to bring a child into this world, as there wouldn't be anything but struggle left. She herself has wondered what will be left for her, which has put her in some pretty dark places. Many of her friends think similarly. She knows where to look for blame, her parents and grandparents.

I am to blame, I wonder what small changes I make can make any difference. Reducing meat consumption, reducing power consumption, doing what I can* in the hope that others do similar, then being reminded that, certainly in the UK, the vocal bunch don't care about anything other than themselves and their societal success. mostly money - consumerism, being those that have, rather than those that 'don't have' (or perhaps don't need)

so where do we look to change things? campaign governments to change things and potentially lose half their votes when they are driven by self success and not altruism, surely a government is set to represent the people, an that in itself is an altruistic promise?

TLDR: most of us are screwed in the next 50 years. no one can stop it.

*very much not enough, why Im part of the problem

Like it will make any difference when the next guy is driving a 4l monster truck to the shops.

Don't let it stop you though, even the smallest change is a step in the right direction, apathy is not.

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence that we need to drastically change our behaviour, we aren’t. We’ve ****ed it.

Near where my Mum lives, a Low Traffic Neighbourhood has been put in. OMG, the absolute cries of distress that it's now not possible to drive the SUV 500m to drop Tarquin and Jemima off at the school gates. Council accused of acting like a Communist state (and worse), wild "data" being produced from the anti- groups to show that life is no longer worth living and vast amounts of wahtaboutery with "well woodburners are worse for pollution so we should all agree to stop using them so we can keep driving" plus the usual stuff about how they "need" their SUV for the 1 snowy day a year in London.

Complete unwillingness to do anything that might make the area just a little bit more pleasant and less traffic-clogged.

The solution to population growth is education and contraception. But it's in the low carbon producing parts of the world where the biggest growth is happening. In the west the birth rate is below the level to maintain population levels and it's immigration that actually stops pops falling.

To blame population growth is another way that the west uses the divert the blame which squarely sits with industrialised nations

We need to dramatically reduce the earth’s population.

In recent years that fantasy seems to be indulged in the West by outsourcing/offshoring our consumerism and pollution so that we can do luxurious things such as enjoy the more violent and distant depopulating climate-change events on widescreen TV. Buy one for £50 from FB Marketplace. Buy two, they’ll provide background heat in the room. You may never require a jumper again.

As some worried old Brit said to me recently: “If poor countries go underwater then they’ll be wanting to come here won’t they? That’s when the problems start…”

In terms of solution it can only be driven through government action, regulation, taxation, prohibition

None of which is particularly popular with voters. So the other key part of the solution is coordinated education

Green tech and carbon reduction will be part of the solution. But ultimately I think there will need to be levelling down for industrialised economies.

I'm not sure there is the political will to follow this through. I hope I'm wrong

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vinnyeh
Full Member

There’s a reason the billionaires are buggering off to New Zealand.

What’s that then Daz?

A country off the east coast of Australia but that’s not important right now

Always good to have plans to not be around when it really kicks off. I certainly wouldn't want to having children now. We've been steering into this with our foot to the floor, eyes closed, since the industrial revolution. Nice one, humans.

What’s that then Daz?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/feb/15/why-silicon-valley-billionaires-are-prepping-for-the-apocalypse-in-new-zealand

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/29/new-zealand-gave-peter-thiel-citizenship-after-spending-just-12-days-there

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/06/google-co-founder-larry-page-is-a-new-zealand-resident-government-says

And here’s me considering buying a marginally more efficient car for my meagre miles. Like it will make any difference when the next guy is driving a 4l monster truck to the shops.

+1. I’ve been grocery shopping/commuting/local trips by bicycle since 1984. I know by counting the other bikes locked outside at the supermarkets (normally 0-1) that I am making statistically zero difference as there are 100s of cars, vans and pickups vs 1 or 2 bicycles.

I still prefer to cycle for a number of reasons, but I don’t kid myself that I’m making a difference to the climate. Maybe for convenience of others ie ‘one less car on the road’. This makes the queue at the traffic lights slightly shorter for drivers on my route,

I am doing my bit, as many are, but there are more people not….. so i cant see much changing. Its very frustrating and i worry for my kids and their kids.

Just feels pointless doing the small things when other people/companies/countries aren't tackling bigger contributions (or making things worse), and the population keeps increasing. Even more so for bigger inconveniences and things that reduce quality of life, like cycling in the rain or spending more by choosing green things.

And if we thought CO2 was a problem that's hard to solve, it seems we're doubling down. 🙄

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/06/reduce-methane-or-face-climate-catastrophe-scientists-warn

I really can't emphasise this enough, and it's not meant to be a guilt trip, but if you're at all interested or worried about climate change, you need to stop eating meat and dairy products. It's pretty much the only individual act you can do which will have a real impact.

Has the massive overuse of personal motor vehicles not been mentioned yet?

I've had a driving licence since '91 and I've owned a car for ~9 years since of the following 30 years, not had one for the last ten years. Simply not needed for my typical day to day lifestyle, work is less than five miles away and food stores are less than 0.5 miles away.

It feels positively cringeworthy thinking back to ridiculous journeys such as in ~'98 driving less than two miles each way to play snooker and ~5 miles each way to go to work '04 to '12.

Not buying a new TV every year will have a far bigger impact on CO2 emissions than not eating burgers, especially if you are careful about where you source the meat.

If you're at all interested in climate change (and the environmental destruction caused by mineral extraction and processing), one of the single best things you can do is stop buying imported electronic goods.

one of the single best things you can do is stop buying imported electronic goods

And buy them from the home based manufacturers instead?