It's clearly just lazy journalism, copied the story from a Euro-phobic right wing rag. The clue is right there for everyone to see.
This will affect us. It is about choice and freedom of choice. We buy our oil, which we have selected from a farm in Spain, to serve our customers," he told the [b]Daily Telegraph[/b]
Tamper proof seems perfectly sensible to me.. Comapre with wine. Do you want yours brought out in a generic carafe,if you bought anything other than house wine.
I used to work in oneof the better hotels in the midlands we routinely poured all te raming half bottles of any sort into a bareel which became the house wine.
Are you suggesting the story is untrue, MSP? Of course you could always select from the links to sources at the bottom of the page - Reuters or Independent any good?
It was aimed at you, Northwind, as I realised that the point I'd just made in reply to you was almost exactly the same as one you'd previously made - maybe a bit unfair to accuse you of not being able to make your mind up on that basis, but it did seem rather strange!
Tamper proof seems perfectly sensible to me.. Comapre with wine. Do you want yours brought out in a generic carafe,if you bought anything other than house wine.
Do you think it perfectly sensible for it to be illegal to serve wine in a carafe if that's what the customer wants? Personally I'm rather less bothered about the specific olive oil I'm getting than the wine.
Are you suggesting the story is untrue, MSP?
I am suggesting that they have probably twisted the intent of the regulation, and found the most obscure and unlikely "victims" in order to fit with an anti EU mindset.
On the other hand the whole thing could just be a pack of lies, like straight bananas and lagging steam trains, and other such nonsense stories.
Well why don't you check out some of the other sources then? Here are some quotes from one of them:
German newspaper Sueddetsche Zeitung described the plan as "the weirdest decision since the legendary curvy cucumber regulation", referring to now-defunct EU rules on the shape of fruit and vegetables sold in supermarkets.
But Enzo Sica, owner of Italian restaurant Creche des Artistes close to the EU quarter of Brussels, said the rules would prevent him from buying his extra virgin olive oil direct from a traditional supplier in Italy.
Maybe a link to the actual regulation? Some actual facts rather than commentary that supports your own viewpoint.
Olive oil fraud appears to be a multi million pound business, and I expect the regulation is to stop large scale miss selling, rather than stopping small specialist products being sold in posh restaurants. But that doesn't make much of a story.
Well why don't you check out some of the other sources then? Here are some quotes from one of them:
Here's the independent:
The Commission bolstered their defences, adding that 27 member nations backed the move, with Portugal having implemented the ban since 2006.Farmers from across the continent welcomed the move, with the EU hoping that citizens will be guaranteed to receive the product they asked for.
“This will ensure a high-quality product for consumers,” said Rafael Sanchez de Puerta of the Copa-Cogecas federation. Also, by displaying the name, origins and storing conditions, “this will help to preserve the image of olive oil.”
The EU is the world's biggest producer of olive oil, accounting for up to 70 per cent of global output, the Commission said.
I do see why a few people here have a bee in their bonnet about this. It's not about the oil, it's the less regulation/small government nonsense that oh so helped us stop the banks from going bankrupt for example. oh, hang on...
Do you think it perfectly sensible for it to be illegal to serve wine in a carafe if that's what the customer wants? Personally I'm rather less bothered about the specific olive oil I'm getting than the wine.
Yes, actually i do. On the second point it is difficult to argue against that. You have a good point. Perhaps EU policy should be based directly on your experiences and tastes.
Olive oil fraud appears to be a multi million pound business, and I expect the regulation is to stop large scale miss selling, rather than stopping small specialist products being sold in posh restaurants.
If that's what they wanted to do, they might have been better issuing a regulation which did something to prevent large scale miss selling rather than just affecting posh restaurants.
“This will ensure a high-quality product for consumers,” said Rafael Sanchez de Puerta of the Copa-Cogecas federation.
Well he would say that wouldn't he?
What exactly does this have to do with the banks?
Perhaps EU policy should be based directly on your experiences and tastes.
Presumably you only use restaurants with an oil list where you can select the specific variety you want? I'd recommend not coming here, as there don't seem to be too many restaurants which would suit your needs - maybe my experiences and tastes are more common than you think?
it's not about posh restaurants,
in every cafe, restaurant cerveceria etc in spain you get olive oil for your salad, etc.
It is a ludicrous law that will not prevent the dilution of oils by the distributors same way current legislation doesnt stop horse meat getting in to the food supply.
but its not going to change anything and Im not sad about it, however my original point was that the media will regurgitate stories like this when it comes to EU bashing which fuels votes for UKIP etc.
..... same way current legislation doesnt stop horse meat getting in to the food supply.
Surely if you're going down that road we shouldn't bother making it a legal requirement that meat be correctly labelled then ?
Just let manufacturers/suppliers bung anything they fancy in their packaging and let the consumers decide if they have noticed ....... is the logical conclusion of your argument.
Which is ironic as you use the term "plain stupid" in the title of your thread.
- maybe my experiences and tastes are more common than you think?
Oh certainly not! I have little doubt that your experiences and tastes are very common indeed!
ernie are you just a ****tard
what i mean is that the problem is not really with restaurants putting small bottles of olive oil on the table, same as supermarkets didnt think it a problem putting foods on the shelves they believed were what they said they were.
the fraud is happening further up the supply chain and regulation - inspection - enforcement there is what's needed this to me is nonsense.
and serves no purpose.
the fraud is happening further up the supply chain and regulation - inspection - enforcement there is what's needed
How do you know where in the supply chain olive oil fraud is occurring ? Have you got some evidence that restaurants have been exonerated of any fraudulent olive oil related activities ?
And how would [b][i]not[/i][/b] having tamper-proof packaging help 'enforcement further up the supply chain' ?
I would have thought that not knowing where the stuff comes from makes it pretty much impossible to enforce.
.
ernie are you just a ****
Based on your logic up until now, I'm going to take that as a compliment.
cant argue with you as you clearly have no reasoning ability
Well my "reasoning abilities" are clearly very different to yours.
I completely fail to see how [u]not[/u] having tamper-proof packaging will make it possible to stop fraud "further up the supply chain", something which you claim is vital.
I'm more worried about the cost of coming up with this legislation than anything else, unless it will be recouped in fines after heavilly enforcing this, prohibition style.
Argh
Charlie think about it for a minute, the issue is not with restaurants passing off cheap olive oil in bertolli containers, the restaurants are not using branded containers.
the secure packaging by the manufacturers is a non starter if you think of your tescos lasagne having beef in it only to find out it contains horse.
the packaging doesnt tell you it contains horse it wouldnt would it.
the problem for the olive oil industry is from the manufacturers passing off oil as extra virgin when it isnt and the problem there is on an industrial scale as the big problem comes from the same issues that the meat industry had with horse meat, the wholesale market is where the fraud is happening.
so even the big companies who are selling what they claim to be italian extra virgin olive oil are not selling what they say they are selling because its been sourced elsewhere and that is the problem for the industry but they are not tackling that problem with this legislation.
I hope that is reasoning enough for ernie to understand i hope its clear, this is the industry trying to protect its self interest and nothing to do with hygiene and restaurants being fraudulent.
the fraud is happening further up the supply chain and regulation - inspection - enforcement there is what's needed
Well I expect that is what the regulation is about, but some typical anti EU journalist has extrapolated the regulations and thought, well we can make this regulation sound like they are stopping olive oil being served in restaurants from open containers, ask some restaurants loaded questions and get some loony eyed responses to suit our editorial polemic.
The EU is dead right to bring this in.
Unscrupulous restauranteurs have been using unbranded olive oil for straightening illegal bent bananas.
MSP you are completely wrong
the legislation incorporates changes to labelling but specifically stops restaurants using open bottles.
so its not an anti EU agenda its the EU passing regulation to support big business in the same way lobby groups in America lobby to get laws passed to support their agenda.
I love how DEFRA disagree with it but didnt have the balls to vote and abstained and now say they will work with the restaurant indusry like how will they do anything.
The problem is that retaurants pass off any old olive oil as something else. If i go into a restaurant and order a bottle of wine, it is because i've seen which 'house' it is from, what kind of grape it is and what year it is. If the waiter then brings out something different the i haven't got waht i expected. If you order a steak and get a stew, it's the same meat but completely different. Why are folks struggling to see that in olive oil? The situation now is that mostly you are served a house oil and this ususally ok, same as house wine is usually ok and sometimes very good. But other times, i want to order a particualr waine and a particular oil and i want to be sure that is what i get. What is so wrong with that?
when have you ever ordered a specific brand of olive oil or been offered a list of olive oils for your salad/bread etc.
maybe i'm missing something here
when have you ever ordered a specific brand of olive oil or been offered a list of olive oils for your salad/bread etc.maybe i'm missing something here
What? When i go to a decent restaurant and i order an oil with my bread!
And You would no more order a 'brand' of oil than you would a 'brand'of wine
really, all the excellent restaurants Ive been to don't bother, can you advise any that do Im just curious.
is there a brand you prefer or a year maybe?
the restaurants here in Madrid just give you oil in a unbranded bottle, no need to select a brand as it's all good certainly good enough.
is there a brand you prefer or a year maybe?
No, can you tell me the same for a wine you like?
I ask as I thought as per your previous post you would have a favourite or preference, and I was wondering what these decent restaurants were where you choose an oil to go with your breads as opposed to simply having the oil on the table or a pot coming with the bread.
as for wine I have become a huge convert to Tagonius the Crianza 2007, its a local wine that was recommended to me and I have to say I look out for it where I can.
I bet manufacturers of catering salt and pepper pots are crapping their pants.....
.......and that bloody great pepper mill, much favoured in Italian restaurants, will soon be a thing of the past, as will the bowl of parmesan 😐
MSP you are completely wrong
the legislation incorporates changes to labelling but specifically stops restaurants using open bottles.
Go on then, show me the legislation.
What the planned amendments say
Ban on cruets:
- Oils made available to the final consumer in hotels, restaurants and pubs and bars shall be packed in containers equipped with an opening system which cannot be resealed after it has first been opened, together with a protection system preventing them from being reused once the contents indicated on the label have been finished
Clearer label information:
- Mandatory details shall be grouped together within the same field of vision, either on the same label or on several labels attached to the same container, or directly on the container. The characters in the text must be equal to or greater than 2 mm, if the nominal volume of the container is equal to or less than 25 cl; 3 mm, if the nominal volume of the container is greater than 25 cl but equal to or less than 100 cl; 4 mm, if the nominal volume of the container is greater than 100 cl.
For details of these and other changes planned, see the amendments to Regulation (EU) No 29/2012 on marketing standards for olive oil.
EU regulations, aimed partly to protect me from restaurants reusing the oil bowl or sauce tray in a curry house, after I've dipped my bread in for the next customer is not the reason I would consider voting for UKIP.
The main reason people vote UKIP is because they are racist bigots whom really want to vote BNP but don't have the stones.
EU regulations, aimed partly to protect me from restaurants reusing the oil bowl or sauce tray in a curry house
You dip your bread in olive oil in a curry house? If not you're out of luck, as it seems the asian condiment industry hasn't yet managed to successfully lobby the EU.
MSP - are you really such an EU fanboi that you reckon any negative story about it must be made up?
Charlie - not going to even weigh in with any olive variety and region recommendations? Personally I'm quite partial to a nice Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc.
The situation now is that mostly you are served a house oil and this ususally ok, same as house wine is usually ok and sometimes very good. But other times, i want to order a particualr waine and a particular oil and i want to be sure that is what i get. What is so wrong with that?
You still seem to be missing the point that this regulation will force you to be served a branded (yes that is really what it will be in most cases) oil, rather than a house oil, when you seem to think a house oil is fine (I note you also seem to have changed your mind over house wine). The vast majority of us common oiks are perfectly happy having the house oil, but it seems that's not allowed. I'm sure the tiny number of pretentious restaurants where you can order a particular oil could already serve it in a sealed bottle if they wanted to, and the [s]EU beurocrats on expense accounts[/s] people who eat at them could easily boycott those which don't if they think it a problem.
as it seems the asian condiment industry hasn't yet managed to successfully lobby the EU.
Not getting this line that it is done by the "Big industry " and oft repeated attack on this thread. What is to stop anyone putting an oil in a vessel that cannot be tampered with? has the "industry" got the copyright on this and wont let anyone else use it ?
Why does tamper proof stop the small producer from doing this?
are you really such an EU fanboi that you reckon any negative story about it must be made up?
What is negative ? they are trying to stop me paying form something I have not got and from getting a disease from contamination - Why is this a bad thing?- it seems the anti brigade will largely ignore the reason and fabricate and spin about the actual reason to attack
this regulation will force you to be served a branded (yes that is really what it will be in most cases) oil, rather than a house oil
For example- PS WTF is a house oil ? Its not like they are making their own out the back they are buying it form somewhere
PS anyone who does not get upset at the EU for everything is a fan boy these days
just to set it out JY
if you were to go to Pizza express they currently have olive oil in a glass bottle that has no branding on it. and its complimentary (free)
now there have been no cases of disease caused by using this arrangement, and across europe where the practice is standard in all restaurants pretty much its the same - no outbreaks of disease from restaurant olive oilt containers.
as of 2014 pizza express and all restaurants will have to replace all these bottles thay have not been a problem for decaded with specially made little bottles from where do you think? a few large olive oil producers. thus making more money for a few large corporations. and resolving a problem with hygiene and tampering that wasnt there.
however the wholesale fraud regarding dilution of oil etc stems from the vague regulations regarding what can be called extra virgin or even from where it comes from and this happend due to the convoluted wholesale markets etc (the same as in the meat industry)
so who benefits? a few large producers of oil who will be able to manage the supply chain and bottling etc.
in my view.
But as in Portugal where this has been law since 2006, it is not being enforced. so another pointless law
from where do you think? a few large olive oil producers. thus making more money for a few large corporations. and resolving a problem with hygiene and tampering that wasnt there.
Yes i understand why you think this will happen I have yet to hear why it will happen- again will it be impossible for anyone to do this but a few large corporations?
Its not the argument i dont get i think it is unfounded
it is like claiming that bottling and labelling of wine is done just for the large corporations and small vineyards have disappeared under EU regulation - basically what you are saying is fear, paranoia, EU phobia and unlikely to transpire
The law may or may not be a good one but that is another issue but the reasons stated are noble and it is not designed to do what everyone claims and nor do i think it will
however the wholesale fraud regarding dilution of oil etc stems from the vague regulations regarding what can be called extra virgin or even from where it comes from and this happend due to the convoluted wholesale markets etc
Right so they are both over regulating and under regulating
these guidelines would seem to be pretty comprehensive tbh
If it is being abused it is fraud and one of enforcement but the rules are not vague - selling horse meat as beef was not due to vague rules but due to folk ignoring the rule s- it is like capitalist dont GAS and will do out for money.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:012:0014:0021:En:PDF
well the EU has changed it's mind and now isn't going to ban olive oil in jugs in restaurants etc etc
53 MILLION quid PER DAY just to be a member of the EU, time to cancel THAT direct debit i recon.
'People are just plain stupid, no wonder they're voting UKIP' is the correct thread title.
