I’m not sure how you think a log burner is going to be cheaper than gas unless it’s running a back boiler and central heating.
A bag of decently dry logs is circa £8*. The log burner heats one room well but if that’s your only heat source will be fairly useless. You’ll be getting through a bag a every day, or two if you’re tight, trying to heat the house.
Even a DEFRA approved one isn’t exactly a clean way of heating your house either.
was any of that direct experience or dramatic hyperbole to get your turnip through a nail. Your maths is similar to runnign a gas boiler off 250gram gas stove cylinders....
Faced with the choice of sitting in the cold next year when theres no gas/oil/electric oir what ever or using my log burner ...... i know what ill be doing.
Equally i was quite glad of it through out the recent storms when the power was out for not an insignificant amount of time locally.
Ive just moved to a small petrol car (mainly because financials didnt make sense on a comparible electric car and they were a one trick pony regarding range) for work due to nursary opening times and traveling to work at 60 is 4 minutes slower than at 70. at 60 i get 65mpg at 70 i get 43-45...... speed limiter is set at 60. can get a long way on a 35 litre tank.
As someone who’s dine many caravan holidays you’d be surprised how little time is lost doing this. When you sit in the lorry lane you’re doing about 58mph usually (indicated) so that’s 20% slower than indicated 70mph. For me to drive to say Heathrow it used to take around 2hrs, but at 56mph that’s 2h24. Now, you might think that 24 mins extra is a lot, but when you consider that there are 50 limits in the route now anyway the difference is less because I can’t do 70mph all the way anyway. And a two hour trip is a decent drive, an extra 20 mins really isn’t that big of a deal. There are very few people for whom it would actually matter. And it saves loads of fuel.
It feels incredibly slow, but it’s not really that bad.
It goes against every fibre of my being as a red blooded wheelsman who's used to 'making progress' but you're right. I used to commute Cardiff to Bridgend every day, I worked out that driving at 80mph saved me 4 mins each way, was stressful (the usual throttle / brake of lane 3 in rush hour). I realised pretty quickly that I never arrived to work at 9, more like 08:40 to 08:50 depending on a million factors, so I was stressing myself out to work a bit extra for free. Doing 56 behind a lorry pretty much doubled the MPG and gave me 4 mins more of listening to my music etc and saved me about £40-£50 a month in fuel that my Wife could waste, sorry invest in scented candles and such.
Things are different now, I mostly only drive for work, but I've got a lovely car with Carplay, heated seats and adaptive cruise. I don't really see the point in rushing anymore.
that my Wife could waste, sorry invest in scented candles and such.
😀
was any of that direct experiance or dramatic hyperbole to get your drive your turnip through a nail.
Direct experience.
A "grab" bag of logs will do me 3 X 2hr fires, the first 40 minutes or so will barely warm the space immediately round the burner.
The next hour will get the room "hot" - but like a frog in a pan you tend not to notice until you go out and come back in - the last 20 minutes is the one too many logs you put on burning off.
Open the living room door whilst it's burning and it's another 20 min or so get to the "that'll do" point. The hall way gets warm. Assuming I'd turned off the CH the temperature in the rest of the house barely moves, to the point is actually cold in the kitchen and bedrooms.
If that fire was heating the house that would need a burn in the morning, probably one at lunchtime ish, then one in the evening assuming I'd like to keep the house at somewhere in double digits.
The back burner meant I needed about 4-5 hours of burn a day to keep the house above 15, the living room was unbearably warm by the time the kitchen was at that sort of temperature. It needed coal and charcoal to keep it ticking over rather than actively burning with logs.
The back burner went to be (re)replaced with gas CH. (fortunately the previous occupants held left everything in place for gas when they put in the pretty wood burner)
I worked out that driving at 80mph saved me 4 mins each way, was stressful
A good point. Sitting in with the lorries (not too close obviously) is extremely relaxing, Because most of the lorries are chugging along at the same speed and you really have to do very little if you're not passing slower vehicles all the time.
https://www.woodfuel-direct.co.uk/technical-information
The "hotties" work out at about £0.10/kWh, slightly more for kiln dried hardwood (and given their selling the stuff I'd guess the figures are a bit over inflated.)
Even after the recent rises that's much more than the cost of gas, a log burner is also much less efficient than a decent CH system so the useable energy is more expensive still.
Sitting in with the lorries (not too close obviously) is extremely relaxing
Really? In my experience it's the opposite. You'll gradually have one bearing down upon you in your rear-view mirror. But you don't want to pull too close to the one in front, so the one behind pulls out to begin the laborious elephant-racing manoeuvre and you're boxed in for five miles like National Lampoons.
Nah, I'd rather bomb along in the fast lane, moving over for the German marques in a rush occasionally.
Tbh I'm.not surprised if the central heating works out cheaper if your paying 8 quid for a grab bag or burning artisanal kiln dried hardwood
you’re boxed in for five miles like National Lampoons.
It's not five miles, but so what? You just sit there. You aren't in danger.
I’d be surprised if it hasn’t got £2/l by the end of April, I’m guessing over £1.80 by the end of this month.
at the rate it’s going up round here, it’ll be there by the end of the week. I put a tank of super in today, 172 against 164, so ~5% more expensive but I get at least 10% better mileage.
Octopus customer with a fixedending on 18th March.
Current rate - Electricity 16.20p/kWh and 21.15p/day standing charge.
New fixed offer - 42.4/Kwh and 25p standing charge.
Gas - Current 2.9 Kwh and 17.3p standing charge.
New offer 12.8Kwh and 12.9
Current £1100 per year up to £3400 per year. Yikes!
I don't like it but can afford it. Many people are going to be in real trouble though.
Edit - and it's only a 10month fix so not even offering much post October protection.
Wow.
Sitting in with the lorries (not too close obviously) is extremely relaxing
What I don't like about this is the fact that I can't see what's happening with the traffic ahead - it feels a little claustrophobic.
What I don’t like about this is the fact that I can’t see what’s happening with the traffic ahead – it feels a little claustrophobic.
what i find is although you leave your space to the truck infront the truck behind comes up and parks in your back seat before initiating the overtake.
Anything happens in front of the truck upahead in that period and your toast.
i tend to knock off the limiter and move before the truck gets to that situation.
Octopus customer with a fixedending on 18th March.
part of the issue is you are comparing a low fixed deal to a high fixed deal.
I'm on the standard variable tariff, projected to go from ~1250/yr to ~1800/yr,
the fix they are offering would be 2800/yr.
Not sure if it's been covered up-thread but I find the frequency at which energy companies bill absolutely preposterous! I logged into the Octopus app at the weekend and noted I had £370 credit, champion. But when I looked at the billing/usage breakdown they hadn't billed any gas or leccy since 7th and 9th of Jan. So thick end of 2 months gas hit the breakdown at the start of the week so it's down to £140 and still no sign of leccy coming off but with two EVs it'll be straight into the red when it does.
FFS they take half hourly readings but then just bill whenever it suits them, sometimes a week apart sometimes 2 months. It's **** ridiculous. I have to do a load of mental arithmetic to work out a true position at any given time. Or am I doing it wrong?
I'm keeping a spreadsheet logging use weekly. Hopefully the leccy bill will come down now it's warming up and I'm more days in the office. I give readings to the supplier monthly so I can control it, and I've already put my DD up £100 a month before the new rates hit.
The fixed rate I was offered was double what I should be paying with the new variable.
Had the April price rise update from Octopus, new rates are:
Elec 24 p/day ---> 37.6 p/day
Elec 20.3 p/kWh ---> 29.3 kWh
Gas 23.8 p/day ---> 27.2 p/day
Gas 3.8 p/kWh ---> 7.3 p/kWh
For our usage: Elec up 45%, Gas up 75%
My PAYG electric is going up as follows...
28.75 to 47.18/day
19.79 to 27.77p per kWh
For our usage: Elec up 45%, Gas up 75%
Bloody hell.
Bloody hell.
Well luckily we don't actually use much, so will only pay about £160/month at the new rates (were paying £97 a month IIRC).
But yes, bigger jump than I was expecting. Luckily we're no where near the breadline, but if you were, it would be a serious problem.
Yes.I'll be going on to the Octopus variable raher than the even more extortionate fixed they offered me.
As for the motorway speed question. No way would I sit in behind a lorry. I feel stressed if my view ahead is blocked. Going 60-62ish would get almost all the economy benefits without the stress of lorries ahead and behind.
Drove to Oban last week and went for economy. Keeping down to 60 on the straights. Gentle acceleration etc. Not bothering to accelerate between bends on twisty sections. According to the car computer I got 60mpg which is 8 mpg better than any other long trip I've done. A 1.4 petrol Skoda Superb.
No way would I sit in behind a lorry. I feel stressed if my view ahead is blocked
For the record, I didn't mean right up it's bum slip-streaming it. Although this is extremely economical it's also really dangerous, obviously.
Going 60-62ish would get almost all the economy benefits without the stress of lorries ahead and behind.
Caravan speed limit is 60, but I never drive it as you are always inching past lorries and holding everyone else up, so it's not worth it.
According to the car computer I got 60mpg which is 8 mpg better than any other long trip I’ve done. A 1.4 petrol Skoda Superb.
Blimey, same car/engine here and get nowhere near that whatever i try.
Going 60-62ish would get almost all the economy benefits without the stress of lorries ahead and behind.
Adaptive cruise helps.
Still UAE have upped production now so Crude is back below $100 (was Friday at least) and unusually forecourts have reacted, locally Diesel have dropped from 174 back to to 164. It's still expensive, but at least moving the right way.
Got the dreaded letter from EDF at the weekend, £133 a month to £195 in April.
Not sure if it’s been covered up-thread but I find the frequency at which energy companies bill absolutely preposterous! I logged into the Octopus app at the weekend and noted I had £370 credit, champion. But when I looked at the billing/usage breakdown they hadn’t billed any gas or leccy since 7th and 9th of Jan. So thick end of 2 months gas hit the breakdown at the start of the week so it’s down to £140 and still no sign of leccy coming off but with two EVs it’ll be straight into the red when it does
EDF Bill twice a year, once in April and again in Oct. What makes it worse with a smart meter in places the data is all there, but you have to collate it all yourself. Even if you haven't got a SM, you can log a meter reading whenever you like, they have everything they need to give you up to date billing, but they choose not too. Okay, usually I don't care, but different times.
Scottish Power wanted to increase my variable rate DD by £80 as I made the mistake of submitting a monthly reading the day before the DD was due out. So knowing full well my account would be in credit the next day, used this as an excuse to increase it, also taking into account the April price rise yet to kick in.
Blimey, same car/engine here and get nowhere near that whatever i try.
There's more than one version of the 1.4 TSI petrol, I think the higher power ones have a supercharger no? That or a twin turbo could affect MPG.
Adaptive cruise helps.
Yep, makes a big difference I find.
Still UAE have upped production now so Crude is back below $100 (was Friday at least) and unusually forecourts have reacted, locally Diesel have dropped from 174 back to to 164. It’s still expensive, but at least moving the right way.
Plus we're coming into Spring / Summer, demand will start to drop off.
So knowing full well my account would be in credit the next day, used this as an excuse to increase it
do scottish power not have the the opt out of auto DD setting that other suppliers have - I know SSE used to change mines willy nilly till i specifically told them to stop it. ~OVO i just ticked a box in the app
sadly Scottish power came out the top of the deals available to me currently at 50p a day and 55p a unit.
needless to say i wont be moving i was idly looking to see if it was worth securing a known increase to save being stung with a major increase in august when my current deal runs out how ever - when im currently 16 p a unit ant 26p a day ..... theres no way ill be changing untill absolutely necessary.
There’s more than one version of the 1.4 TSI petrol, I think the higher power ones have a supercharger no? That or a twin turbo could affect MPG
We have a little 1.0 Ecoboost Fiesta for pottering around and it flatly refuses to do more than 47mpg in general driving - and that's with the aircon switched off and me really trying to drive economically!
im getting 50 from a 1.2 puretech 108 - thats mostly dual carridgeway driving @ 60
that climbs to 55-58 if i do mostly B road 45-50mph.
Go to 70 on dualer its 40mpg.
I use the speedlimiter alot.
So my mum and dad still potter around a monstrous victorian carbunkle. 6 bedrooms, 3 floors + basement. It's insulated to the point you stuggle to get into the loft. Recently fully double-glazed. They heat three rooms. Boiler is less than 5 years old and has good controls, though the plumbing design is from the 1920s and may have originated in the shipyard parts bin (massive 3" pipes, 11 big cast iron rads, various bolt-ons, a custom-built hot water tank).
They were paying £140 a month. Then this arrived on Thursday.
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hey were paying £140 a month. Then this arrived on Thursday.
something gone wrong there I reckon, unless they have just come off a very long term (and hence very cheap) fixed deal at the same time as the new energy cap has come into play.
me really trying to drive economically!
How are you trying to do that though? You may find it easier to accelerate more briskly then back off when up to speed - or on windy roads just putting in a burst of higher power when needed then coasting with very light throttle the rest of the time. Light throttle all the time isn't always best, although lower overall speeds can be. Different engines require different tactics to get the best MPG.
Aircon makes naff all difference these days too.
hey were paying £140 a month. Then this arrived on Thursday.
My guess is that the energy company's estimate is based on other similar houses on the street, which may be much less insulated and full of people.
hey were paying £140 a month. Then this arrived on Thursday.
something gone wrong there I reckon, unless they have just come off a very long term (and hence very cheap) fixed deal at the same time as the new energy cap has come into play.
Yeah, that's more than just a unit price hike. Even if they're leaving the best fixed rate that was available 2 years ago, just as the cap rises, that's over a 500% increase - either they were badly in arrears because no one had been taking readings or its an admin issue.
Just been looking back at my bills because I've gone into significant debit since December 21. Sort of assumed it was because the end of a fixed tariff and higher usage over winter, which is a big part of it but there's a near £500 swing and I've always been pretty good at phasing it over the year.
British Gas didn't take my Direct Debit over the Christmas period, so I've had to up my monthly payment by 75% to catch up. Bit bloody annoying. 🤬
Our usage is up a bit this year as we stopped using the log burner (too polluting) so have been using CH in the evenings this winter whereas normally we just light the fire. Worst possible timing...
Seeing as I've just had to pay 103.88p (+ vat) per litre of heating oil, pollution can go funk itself.
4 logs on the stove sorts out the snug and kitchen for the evening without firing up the central heating for a largish house (yeah, I know, humble brag, blah blah 😉)
On the plus side on a day like today the solar PV is giving 250l of >62c hot water - so no boiler for that either.
Some frightening figures. Our electric is about £200 per month (hits hard over winter with wFH and heating a conservatory (and a shed lprevius winter) - Gas about £50. Currently paying £300pm to keep on top of the additional winter use, which we are, and then upped to £400 last month.
For the last month we've been checking useage, as mentioned above. The 'hot tub' has been switched right down to 23c and if we want to use it, we put it up in the morning, to use it in the evening. This sort of makes us use it, rather than just leave it ticking over hot all the time - the pump is still on. It's incredible the energy these use. I recon I'll save at least £20 per week switching it down until we decide to use it. That's massive. With the price rises, that will be over £100 per month. That's just negated the rise.
It's just wasted energy - frightening how much get's wasted. Out gas heating is efficient, but with two young adults who leave everything on, we're going to need to re-educate them, and the 'boss' with her tub.
I'm glad I haven't gone smart meter, if what you are saying they don't bill promptly. I got caught out winter 2020 with the WFH and all the extra heat generated by electricity, and relying on quarterly readings. Scarey given how expensive it is now. I can see the impact of using say the drier has, by taking a reading a couple of times a week.
I never used to worry when there were the two of us, or with young kids, but 4 adults and all the gizmos, it ads up.
I can see the impact of using say the drier has, by taking a reading a couple of times a week.
If you want to know how much an appliance is using you can buy a plug-in power meter that works with any appliance with a plug.
Might just do that......
with two young adults who leave everything on
You could leave every light in the house on (if LED) and it wouldn't even register compared to an electrically heated hot tub.
I have to admit to being slightly puzzled by truly enormous bills reported by people living in small, well-insulated homes and wonder if they're done something like switch the immersion heater on by mistake and not noticed. Or have countless incandescent light bulbs, or electric fires in every room or something.
Immersion heater = hot tub... 🙂
Embarrassing to be complaining about a hot tub when some of us couldn't pay for heating. At least it's warmed up now
