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Seems to me it flows into the pockets of the rich and powerful who then use it to lord it over the rest of us. Maybe we should focus on getting it back! into our lives
Hehehe.. that's right! Fight the power that takes YOUR money! Just make sure you don't umm.. set foot on a public road, use utilities or sewerage, make a mobile phone call, breath clean air, get ill, learn anything for free (that one looks like it's taken care of anyway) or any of the other million things that the govt spends its money on us for.
For every point where taxpayer's money is wasted, there are several more where it's not.
When the oil runs out will we have to switch to Cod Liver oil?
I think we're past peak cod production too, even in Scotland 🙂
Oh cod! This is unreal 🙁
think we're past peak cod production too, even in Scotland
It would actually be nice if we were to look after OUR fishing industry as well as Spain does.
It would actually be nice if we were to look after OUR fishing industry as well as Spain does.
From my time on fishery protection in the North Sea it was clear that a substantial part of the problem was down to the Spanish fishing industry. It appeared that there government didn't really care what they fished for or where.
Ah, this is a great thread. Really brightened up my Monday morning. I see that the OP's myths have mostly been debunked already. To cut a long story short, my understanding of the matter is that Scotland pays a reasonable amount of taxes (including income tax, tax generated by oil, VAT and all the usual stuff), Scotland then gets a chunk of cash to spend as it pleases (e.g care for the elderly in certain circustmances), and other UK regions get the the same deal to spend as they please (e.g fancy Olympic stadia that will probably be empty in 5 years time). I also understand that per head, Scotland receives less than certain other UK regions (London, Wales, NI I believe), but that doesn't mean I hate all pesky Londoners and their funds should all be cut.
If you want your money spent differently in your region, vote appropriately and then pester your MP/Councillor, whoever.
To be honest, if those with the blinkers on want to hate Scotland and her perceived 'freebies', that suits me fine. It'll save me having to encounter you around here, and you can stick with your Daily Mail inspired incorrect 'facts'.
Unlike ours,and I include the North of England guys,who are tied up because our government will not accept that the policy allowing Spanish Klondykers is wrong.
Apply that phrase to any of the Countries you have raped over the last 300 years.(Countries bent to your will with Scottish soldiers)
You've really got the moral high ground there. Absolutely no complicity on the Scots part. Not a single Scots settler in North America or the antipodes I reckon.
Good point well made.
Scotland should have independence. Once it get's control of the oil it will bring wealth and happiness to all, just as happened in Nigeria.
Who cares? Give them independence but make sure there's a proper border, visa's, passport (and charge) etc to cross. Tax scottish imports. That would be fine with me.It's quite obvious that the scots don't like the english, why force them into an alliance they dont want. At least many of the people of NI wanted to be british.
At least many of the people of NI wanted to be british
that would be the children of the Ulster plantation/colonisation put there 400 years ago to be loyal the the crown you are referring to ....yes the immigrants are still serving you well.
PS it is an union not an alliance have you ever thought about learning some history?
I'm about to go out for a ride, On a 4 grand+ carbon superbike paid for entirely with subsidy money from English taxes...
...GET IT RIGHT UP YE! YA BAS! 🙂
PS it is an union not an alliance have you ever thought about learning some history?
Nope. I don't care. As I've said, I'm quite happy for the scots to become completely independent (the only stipulation being a proper border).
that would be the children of the Ulster plantation/colonisation put there 400 years ago to be loyal the the crown you are referring to ....yes the immigrants are still serving you well.
Who cares? They are there and have a voice. tough shit.
[i] ....yes the immigrants are still serving you well.[/i]
This does have a slight scent of BNP around it 🙂
But does raise the question as to how many (if any) generations of your family have to live in a country, until your opinion is accepted as being validly representative.
Backhander I am pleased that your ignorance gives you pride when added to your utter stupidity it makes you the trully beautifull and well rounded person we all admire.
EDIT: Those in NI are the direct descendants of this plantation - which would I assume be illegal under international law if we were to try it today under international law in a foreign country - see Israel for exampl. I suspect it fills the descendant sof these immigrants with pride tbh. Please dont compare me to the scum at the BNP I am a bleeding heart liberal dogooder.
I suspect it has as much to do with how your family got there rather than actual numbers/generations. You cannot escape the fact they were placed there to give a loyal presence to the crown and they are still doing this to this date. It is a bit like asking how long do I have to own your stolen bike/land/money before I have a claim to it. Simplifying a vastly complicated scenario shall we get back on track?
Trailmonkey,why [i]did[/i] a lot a Scots end up in the New World...Oh yes,they were forced to go by the London driven process of improvement.I didn't think your average Scottish settler really benefited from the move,certainly not at first,and I suspect I may be a little bit better read than you on the subject.FWIW The English companies which owned large tracts of land in the New World liked the Scots,Welsh and Irish settlers as they were so poor they could give them the worst land and they would be so grateful they would turn it into farmland.I would think the policy of Colonialism was an English invention,an early form of Manifest Destiny Ever heard of the East India trading company? Where were they from?
and various others.Very wrong.Scots to pay to get into England...Err that might be against European law...At least many of the people of NI wanted to be british.
It's not pride nor shame. I got a single word wrong, you are obviously a pedant tied up in semantics and decided to pull me on it for lack of a better argument. I am a very well rounded person thanks and I won't take your words as insulting as that would indicate that I care what you think.
I really don't understand your hostility TBH, I've stated that you're welcome to your independence. I thought that was what you wanted?
Who cares? Give them independence but make sure there's a proper border, visa's, passport (and charge) etc to cross. Tax scottish imports. That would be fine with me.It's quite obvious that the scots don't like the english, why force them into an alliance they dont want. At least many of the people of NI wanted to be british.
Sounds like you want independence more than many Scots. Who is this 'they'? I'm not sure there is a simply majority in Scotland in favour of independence, so it just sounds like you want independence for Scotland. Unfortunately your argument is self defeating as it just makes you sound like you don't like us Scots.
With your border taxes for Scots, this sounds completely contrary to the EU free movement policies, and just makes you sound racist. Fun to read though.
Ha! Racist indeed! Good one!
I don't [i]want[/i] anything for scotland.
It's not difficult, if the scots feelings on here are representative of the population then they obviously do not like the english, so why make the part of a [i]union[/i] that they don't want to be in?
My only stipulation would be a full border. Can't say fairer than that?
I am a bleeding heart liberal dogooder
Excellent.. can I join up? I want to be a member of the Bleeding Heart Liberal Dogooder Party!
Actually, just loled for real imaginging David Dimbleby reading that out on election night 🙂
Think you need to step away from this one backhander.Your remarks on previous threads does suggest you have a bit of an issue with us er..."Northern Britons"
Tax Scottish imports,
again,see earlier remark about EC.
On another note,at least your team showed what the can do (for 40mins) on Saturday.
My only stipulation would be a full border. Can't say fairer than that?
Nothing fair about the import taxes and border policies you seem to be suggseting which would apply to Scotland (a border neighbour), but not to France, Greece, et al? Sounds pretty discriminatory to me.
I'm not sure you have read all of the comments on here, as a good number of Scots on this forum do not appear to be advocating independence, and certainly none as strongly as you.
Personally, until you erect your 20ft wall and tax me to enter England (at which point I'll head to Ireland or Wales instead), I'll keep supporting British companies and visting all of the various parts of Britain.
If you don't want Scotland to be part of the union, don't be shy, just say it. We won't be offended.
I don't mind if the scots get independence really and I certainly don't have as much of a problem with the scots as they have with the english (anyone beat england T-shirts and duckmans posts above). I wouldn't care if they did get free prescriptions, uni or even buckfast.
The idea of import tax is to benefit buying from the remainder (if any) of the union. Not out of spite or any imagined hatred of the scots.
Edit, duckman how the eff did you beat the irish and play so well after losing to far worse teams (england included?).
Backhander my post above was in reply to showermans logic about oil.I then quoted plain historical facts abouts who benefited from Britains colonial policy.I don't hate the English,I just hate the attitude of so many of your countrymen that we have so much to thank you for,something I do not agree with without it being recognised as a two-way street.Nor is Scotland a hotbed of Independence.Now if you want a rant that makes me look like I hate the English lets talk about Margaret Thatcher and the Poll Tax.
Does it really f'ing matter?
If you like what they have in Scotland then move there, nobody is stopping you..!!
If you like what they have in Wales then answer is easy move there..!!
and FFS if you like Italian food move to Italy.
There you go, I fell for a troll.
There are no restrictions on where you live in the UK or EU for that matter. If you don't like where you are then move.
Yorkshireman in London
(yes the idea of a Yorkshire Assembly does make sense, only problem is nowt would be free but fresh air and scenery, Hospitals would only let you in if you had something hanging off, presciptions would be a good fart and an asprin and university would be down pit! and think yourself lucky!)
😆(yes the idea of a Yorkshire Assembly does make sense, only problem is nowt would be free but fresh air and scenery, Hospitals would only let you in if you had something hanging off, presciptions would be a good fart and an asprin and university would be down pit! and think yourself lucky!)
Scotland should have independence. Once it gets control of the oil it will bring wealth and happiness to all, just as happened in Nigeria
I think I've found a way to revive the Scottish economy...You know all those call centres up there...
[img]
0LLY.CO.UK So who would take independance?
Whos voted SNP?
How big would the civil service be in an independant scotland? Im imaganing pretty big. Hows this gonna be funded? Oil is historical now. I suppose you could whack even bigger taxes on it. I think as someone said earlier, its the gas you need going forward. Still, youll have a brand new army to fight for that.
personally, good luck if you could get it. Im pretty sure it would all end in tears though. Whenever anyone mentions scottish independance I cant but help imaginaing a warmer Iceland as where it would be heading.
If you like what they have in Scotland then move there, nobody is stopping you..!!If you like what they have in Wales then answer is easy move there..!!
I hear Wrexham's lovely this time of year.
A warmer Iceland - that would do. a small country with a high standard of living, long life expectancy and a happy peoples? I'd settle for that. Or Norway. Or Denmark. Or any of the similar small countries around the north sea.
backhander - Member
...It's not difficult, if the scots feelings on here are representative of the population then they obviously do not like the english, so why make the part of a union that they don't want to be in?
My only stipulation would be a full border. Can't say fairer than that?
I suspect the English the Scots don't like are the same type of English that people living in England don't like. All the English people I know are nice decent people, but I've had dealings with the other sort. You may have met them while you're out riding on one of your sneaky trails.
It's nothing to do with not liking the English. It's a very simple concept - a belief in freedom - which can only be achieved by self government. The words of the Declaration of Arbroath are burned into the Scottish consciousness.
As for a 20 foot high wall at the border, that was tried 2,000 years ago to keep the barbarians out. Didn't work, the English keep coming up here anyway 🙂 (That's a joke by the way)
It's a very simple concept - a belief in freedom - which can only be achieved by self government.
I quite agree and I'm not opposed to it.
All comes down to ££ really. Scotland could be far better off in the short term, but they think there's only 50 years of NS oil left (which TJ has correctly pointed out belongs to Scotland). The vast majority of the gas would go to the remainder of the union I believe. What would be scotlands long term revenue stream? tourism perhaps? Also, I think you're not getting any nuclear power stations? Wind will only do so much (which isn't a lot), wave/hydro a goer? These are genuine questions by the way, not digs.
happy peoples? I'd settle for that
I'm under the impression that many of the countries you have mentioned (certainly Norway) have some of the highest suicide rates in the world.
All comes down to ££ really. Scotland could be far better off in the short term, but they think there's only 50 years of NS oil left (which TJ has correctly pointed out belongs to Scotland). The vast majority of the gas would go to the remainder of the union I believe. What would be scotlands long term revenue stream? tourism perhaps? Also, I think you're not getting any nuclear power stations? Wind will only do so much (which isn't a lot), wave/hydro a goer? These are genuine questions by the way, not digs.
First off, I should clarify that I sit on the fence re indepedence. Pros and cons to both options. But to answer your question, one revenue stream when oil runs out (still plenty of debate as to when that actually will be, as we were told ages ago it would have run out by now) is indeed power generation as you suggest. The western isles are pretty darned breezy, and the Pentland Firth is reckoned to have excellent potential for wave power. Offshore wind turbines also have a big part to play, as a there is plenty of sea around here to stick them in. I believe that Scotland is already a net exporter of electricty, and as power becomes more expensive, this looks like a good revenue stream.
I'm under the impression that many of the countries you have mentioned (certainly Norway) have some of the highest suicide rates in the world.
That's partly because it is so dark is it not? I'd be a tad grumpy too if I only saw the sun 9 months of the year!
Scotland is well placed to be a big player in the alternatve energy market - and some belated steps are being taken in the releasing of sites for wave and tidal energy. We have the world leader in wave power based in Scotland. ( pelarmis)
Tourism will always be a revenue stream - and while oil is going to run out at some point more will become viable to extract as prices rise - all in scottish waters.
I think some heavy engineering will return as economic policies to suit are put in place. Hi tech as well based around the world class universitiers
Also the oil money could be invested in a fund for the future much like norway instead of being used to pay for the UK budget deficit.
When Denmark, Norway and Iceland can have rich economies there is no reason why Scotland cant.
However the economic argument is different from the philosophical one.
When Denmark, Norway and [b]Iceland[/b] can have rich economies there is no reason why Scotland cant.
I think our esteemed leader got in a bit of bother for spouting that one once too often did he not? 😉
I think some heavy engineering will return as economic policies to suit are put in place. Hi tech as well based around the world class universitiers
Hmm, not too convinced by that. Not unless the costs (read salaries) are considerably less than that of eng/wales/NI, which is not what you want really.
Hmm, not too convinced by that. Not unless the costs (read salaries) are considerably less than that of eng/wales/NI, which is not what you want really.
Scotland already does reasonably from hi-tech. Wolfson in Edinburgh supplying iPod chips once (not sure they still do), or the gaming industry around Dundee are good examples.
I'm not sure that anywhere in Europe will ever be into 'heavy engineering' these days, but there is certainly scope for this on a small scale to meet local demand where import costs would otherwise be too high.
VIRGINMEDIA.COM I'm under the impression that many of the countries you have mentioned (certainly Norway) have some of the highest suicide rates in the world.
Yes but that's not cos everyone's miserable. In fact the opposite is primarily the case. My personal experience of Scandinavia is that it's a fairly family-orientated place, which is great if you've got one but might be exclusionist if you are alone.... but I don't know really. In Helsinki I saw a lot of happy people and some drunks. Maybe it's the drinking culture?
When Denmark, Norway and Iceland can have rich economies
Iceland?
Not the best example to choose...
porterclough - Member
When Denmark, Norway and Iceland can have rich economies
Iceland?Not the best example to choose...
Why not, they got all our money 🙂
trailmonkey - Member
Or maybe this ?[img]
One of the best goals - EVER!!
Oh - remind me again. What was the score in the last football match played between England and Scotland??
VIRGINMEDIA.COM Getting back to the original post - the HE situation is far worse than described. Do you realise that English students are the only EU nationals who pay tuition fees at Scottish Universities? That's right live in Latvia - no charge, Portugal - no charge, Northumberland - that'll be be £3k.
How can that be legal I wonder...imagine the outcry if English universities singled out another EU country to pay tution fees.
Back from a road run, where I was thinking of lots of inflammatory stuff to say, and I come back to find the thread's gone all cosy and sensible (fitba' wind ups aside) 😐
One industry the independent Scotland will excel in is, like many nations -the Arms Industry. Who needs tactical nuclear weapons when we have the perfect 'green' alternative- The Scottish Midge, Yes folks, for the market rate, you too can render whole swathes of your enemies land uninhabitable, no fall out to worry about either.