[Closed] driving experts (im sure theres a few) - keeping the clutch down.....

how do we all drive ladies and gents?

like we stole it.

When I was taught, it was to use engine braking. My sons were taught not to do this, but instead use the brakes.

Which is right?

the clutch is only being worn whilst it is biting. ie. holding the car on a slope with the clutch is not a good idea.

1 million pages

With the clutch pedal depressed you are not wearing out the friction plate, but the clutch thrust bearing is getting a hard time of it.

I use neutral, but then if my thrust bearing goes, it's me who has to drop the landrover box to fix it..

I was taught to release the clutch on a car but keep it pulled for a motorbike apparently they work differently

As for brakes I was told to avoid using brakes where possible and use gears in cars trucks and bikes

Sitting in gear with clutch depressed? Fine until you are bumped and your foot slips off the pedal.

Engine braking uses less fuel but wears the engine. Brake pads are cheaper than engines (as was explained to me during advanced driving instruction). I'd always used engine braking but that's probably because I used to ride motorbikes

Clutch release bearing will be spinning while clutch is depressed, that can wear out. The cover plate and friction surface will be apart though so not wearing.

People used to be taught to use engine braking in the old days as brakes were crap.

I do what you do and put it in neutral if I'm stropping for more than a few seconds, although I don't really see why the clutch would wear just because the pedal if all the way down. The clutch plates aren't making contact, so what it to wear?

18 pages , Guy Martin gets mentioned on page 6 , Top Gear by page 3

I'll lift and coast, but not change down early when slowing down for roundabouts etc. - sometimes I'll change down when I need to because I've slowed too much for the current gear, but that's quite rare (I think most of the time I'd just clutch in). So I'm not deliberately engine braking, just saving fuel by lifting off the throttle earlier. If I need to brake I'll use the brakes - engine braking is only for going down hills.

I'd think that neutral with the clutch engaged is better as it's not wearing bits which tend to go (clutch pedal down you're wearing the release bearing, which does wear out). I'm not sure how you could be wearing the clutch plates with clutch engaged in neutral as there is no slippage - I suppose there is a slight wear as the clutch is re-engaged, but it must be tiny as there is no load. Though I'm not an expert on this.

Keeping the clutch down will wear the release bearing - also if she gets hit from behind (fnar fnar) then her foot might well come off the pedal and shoot the car into oncoming traffic.

Oh and gears to go, brakes to slow.

The only point in changing down is to get yourself in the right gear to accelerate away again.

how do we all drive ladies and gents?

After she's had a few months to 'settle in' I'd suggest getting her to read Roadcraft. Probably useful for every driver tbh.

I learnt on the basis of engine braking (think the theory now is that brake pads cost less than clutches).

But I'd release the clutch and shove in neutral - that much more control if you get knocked from behind for a start (though I suppose you could counter-argue that a stall would ensue, which would stop all the quicker).

My driving has got sloppier over the years - probably - but no longer charge everywhere in a road going go-kart, which evens things up a bit.

What stoner said.

Release bearing and crank spigot bearing will be having a hard time, although in modern cars the spigot is usually a lifetime part.

Clutch wear 'biting' into or out of neural is insignificantly small, all it has to do is spin up the gearbox input shaft which isn't connected to anything. You'd put more wear on the selector and syncromesh cones, but again, those are far better than they used to be and you'd be unlucky to wear one out in a modern gearbox (and you don't really need a syncro for 1st anyway in a road car unless you completely lack mechanical sympathy)

Then there's the risk your foot could slip off the pedal, instantly writing off many lifetimes of saved clutch plate taking out your and the car in front's bumpers.

This came up on a thread recently and I think the consensus was that drivers are currently taught to be sat in 1st with the clutch down and handbrake on so they are ready to go when the lights change.

Think that's what I was taught too and that's generally what I do unless I know I'm going to be waiting a long time (e.g. level crossing).

(IANADrivingGod).

Keeping the clutch down will wear the release bearing - also if she gets hit from behind (fnar fnar) then her foot might well come off the pedal and shoot the car into oncoming traffic.

Depends how long the stop is. Holding it down uses effort. Resting foot for a minute doesn't. Although that possibly depends on how manly or girly the clutch pedal return spring is.
Was taught to engine brake. It'll use less fuel for sure, even if it wears the engine more instead of the brakes.
It's a car. It'll wear out.

edit: but it'll also now depend on how auto stop-start works. handbrake, neutral, clutch up, engine stops. depress clutch to restart.

If you keep your foot on the clutch it may lead to premature release bearing failure or weaken the clutch diaphragm (it did on old cars - dunno bout modern clutch assemblies if i'm honest), and if your foot slips off the clutch when stationary and in gear you may smack into the car in front or worse…. pedestrians crossing the road.

And i get a weird enjoyment from driving whilst attempting to use the brakes as little as possible and anticipating cornering speeds etc (when there are no cars right up my arse that is) - there's a perverse satisfaction from driving as smoothly as possible - my brother on the other hand is a throttle masher/brake junkie type of driver which annoys me. I trained as a mechanic so i tend to drive with the utmost mechanical sympathy as i have an understanding of how cars work.

Stoner - Member
With the clutch pedal depressed you are not wearing out the friction plate, but the clutch thrust bearing is getting a hard time of it.

Just what I was going to say.

RE: ENgine brakeing. It depends if you are chaging down t okepp the revs constant or changing down and the revs are spiking.

How long ago were you lot taught that you were taught engine braking? I was taught to use the brakes to slow down in the late 80s - I don't think engine braking was mentioned at all by my instructor. Brakes were already good enough by then to work fine in all normal use (the exception being descending hills, where you can still get problems, though I wasn't taught that I don't think).

I'm with you on the clutch. Keeping it in will wear the release bearing I think. If the stop is likely to be more than a few seconds I'll put it into neutral and put the handbrake on.

Not quite so worried about going down the box when slowing down. I'll just allow the engine to slow it down and use the brakes - depressing the clutch if the revs get too low. In any case brakes are cheap to replace compared to the clutch. That said - I try to anticipate stops / reductions in speed and use the brakes as little as possible.

I think it helps to realise that both the accelerator and brake use fuel i.e. cost money.

And i get a weird enjoyment from driving whilst attempting to use the brakes as little as possible and anticipating cornering speeds etc (when there are no cars right up my arse that is) - there's a perverse satisfaction from driving as smoothly as possible

hm, passed my car test 1980, motorbike on a year later I think.

Police Roadcraft is worth a read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Roadcraft-drivers-handbook-Essential-Handbook/dp/0117021687

Brakes cost less than gearboxes, so use the brakes! That said I always use engine overrun and braking. I was also taught to double declutch which is just a habit now.

i had a VW passat for a few years, if i held the clutch pedal down for too long, it would stay there. for an unpredictable amount of time.

clutch up (and handbrake) for me, if i'm waiting at lights.

Neutral and handbrake if stationary for more than a few seconds. Accelerate and brake smoothly.

What does she do if she comes to a standstill pointing up a hill?

[quote=andytherocketeer ]Was taught to engine brake. It'll use less fuel for sure, even if it wears the engine more instead of the brakes.

Lift and coast uses less fuel, and is part of smooth driving as mentioned by several. If you need to brake more than that, which is what is being suggested, then engine braking uses no less fuel than using the bits of the car designed for that. Brake pads are cheap compared to drivetrain (especially on the modern diesels lots of us drive - I've never had the pads changed in mine, though I think it's had one change which would have been a ton or so, clutch and DMF was a grand).

People still buy manual cars? Amazing.

And when I was learning I remember my Dad quoting the 'brake pads/shoes are cheaper than gearboxes' - but then that was 35 years ago...

They definitely taught octagenarians to brake down hills.
Tickle those brakes the entire way down the Vrsic pass in Slovenia. 52 hairpins. She wouldn't have smelled a thing. Something must have been glowing, and that pedal must have been nearly touching the floor.

Round here cars are all auto. And I believe the rule is you keep the brake pressed permanently at the lights and blind the car behind.

I asked my driving instructor about this when I learned a couple of years back. He said he teaches people to leave it in gear because it reduces the chances of them hitting the wrong gear and stalling the car in a test but in real life he takes it out of gear.

[quote=aracer ]How long ago were you lot taught that you were taught engine braking? I was taught to use the brakes to slow down in the late 80sEarlier than that 😆

Best thing about using brakes is it fires those brake lights that tell the driver behind that you are in fact slowing down and not just an are they aren't they?
From at least 3 advanced driving instructors

Round here cars are all auto. And I believe the rule is you keep the brake pressed permanently at the lights and blind the car behind.

[quote=aracer ]

andytherocketeer  » Was taught to engine brake. It'll use less fuel for sure, even if it wears the engine more instead of the brakes.

[quote=mikewsmith ]Best thing about using brakes is it fires those brake lights that tell the driver behind that you are in fact slowing down Good point too

^ good point.

On the motorbike when engine braking I always turn the brake light on with the RH lever just to indicate to those behind I'm slowing, usually when going into a lower speed limit zone.

Also if it's a hydraulic clutch system by keeping it depressed you'll be holding pressure in the system for longer periods of time which could reduce the life of the seals in the master/slave cylinder etc

While we're on this subject has anyone else noticed people don't seem to use their handbrake anymore nomatter how long they're stopped for? I'd say more than half the people on the roads these days just sit there with their foot on the brake which is pretty annoying when you're sat behind for a few minutes 👿

Nobody should be gain a full licence in a manual transmission car until they have changed a clutch.

Still like using the clutch as a "hill brake" now eh? 😈

And put the bloody handbrake on when stopped. It can reduce the comedy insurance claims [s]if[/s] when someone runs into the back of you.

Depends how long I'm stopping, and if I'm behind a few cars that will take a while to find 1st, release the hand brake, put down phone, etc before they move off. Usually it's either hand brake and neutral or foot brake and 1st ready for a quick off. So no hard and fast rule, do what is right for the situation, or just what I feel like.

As above gears for go, brakes for slow is what I was taught by an ex-plod advanced driving instructor who'd retired and was teaching civies to drive. Slow down in top gear (or whatever gear you are in), drop the clutch at the approprite speed, if you are to accelerate before stopping slip it in to the right gear and away. Using the gears to slow down is a hang over from when brakes where crap, and as said brake pads/discs are cheaper than clutches/gearboxes.

till like using the clutch as a "hill brake" now eh?

And put the bloody handbrake on when stopped

Even worse on the bike when you filter in behind a car and it starts rolling towards you!

Stoner - Member
^ good point.

On the motorbike when engine braking I always turn the brake light on with the RH lever just to indicate to those behind I'm slowing, usually when going into a lower speed limit zone.

you're one of the few, motorbike engine braking is bloomin sever and can catch you out. Also, my bimmer with its brake regen thing slows the car down quite quickly too when you lift off..

As for the brake lights on at a standstill, i'm guilty of this in the Auto especially as it has the "auto hold" device, that said i don't care as it makes my many hours of sitting in traffic jams bearable.

Even worse on the bike when you filter in behind a car and it starts rolling towards you!