And I am just as surprised there isn't something in USA law or constitution to get them out of office before they destroy absolutely everything.
There is.
Impeachment
Unfortunately its not just Trump and his direct team who are failing the USA. The Republicans are enmass and even a fair few democrats are failing.
Posted : 26/03/2025 9:03 am
funkmasterp reacted
More than that, the people are failing the US. They should be expecting more of their government than just being grift-filled, billionaire-supporting cretins. It's not entirely their fault; the education sector is failing them and the media is feeding them partisan stories that encourage divisiveness and partisanship.
The situation should be looked at by other countries and actively worked against, not supported.
Posted : 26/03/2025 9:23 am
More than that, the people are failing the US. They should be expecting more of their government than just being grift-filled, billionaire-supporting cretins. It's not entirely their fault; the education sector is failing them and the media is feeding them partisan stories that encourage divisiveness and partisanship.
The situation should be looked at by other countries and actively worked against, not supported.
The problem is that a fair few countries are going down the same pan in terms of the right type of education to be able to critically assess information, and a media that is feeding divisiveness. The media has become obsessed with "commentators" rather than facts.
I understand that people will make a protest vote, and some will even cut off their nose to spite their face if they feel it's making some point or other.
But where are the grown ups in all this? The people higher up who see where it's going.
Alliances are what enable the USA to sit securely where they are. Carney has gone on record expressing concern sharing info with USA, UK and others being more subtle by not showing their intention and seemingly confident with the USA relationship. But after hearing Vance's comment about Europe, and Trump backing him, you'd hope UK government would be in process of making our own securities outside of the USA.
Posted : 26/03/2025 9:53 am
It appears one of the signal uses was actually inside the Kremlin at the time of the message being sent.
What countrys security brief would actually allow you take your own un secured mobile into that place. I bet the Russians are loving it.
Oh the US .
I go to places at work where I have to hand in my Garmin watch nevermind my mobile (genuinely a food factory) 
Posted : 26/03/2025 1:29 pm
If i was a journalist i'd be asking these questions:
If you hadn't been caught, would you have carried on using this app.
What other unauthorised government chat groups are you part of?
Have the information security people (CIA or someone) confiscated all the phones for analysis.
What would be the penalty if a junior government team were caught doing the same thing.
Posted : 26/03/2025 2:05 pm
You forgot the obvious questions:
Is your use of this app on a personal phone illegal under your secrecy laws?
Is your use of this app on a personal phone illegal under FOI laws?
Posted : 26/03/2025 2:09 pm
Have the information security people (CIA or someone) confiscated all the phones for analysis.
Given that their directors were in the chat, and being turned inside out by the hearings yesterday trying to justify/excuse their **** up*, I think we are too far gone.
*As this was the term used by Jon Soppel and Emily Maitlis, I'm assuming it's the correct technical term
Posted : 26/03/2025 2:24 pm
BBC Live reporting that Goldberg/Atlantic have published the full chat, to push back at the lies and attacks used to defend themselves yesterday.
The directors are in front of another Committee today, let's hope it's a bloodbath.
Posted : 26/03/2025 2:28 pm
Murray reacted
They certainly have: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/signal-group-chat-attack-plans-hegseth-goldberg/682176/
Posted : 26/03/2025 2:40 pm
If i was a journalist i'd be asking these questions:
If you hadn't been caught, would you have carried on using this app.
What other unauthorised government chat groups are you part of?
Have the information security people (CIA or someone) confiscated all the phones for analysis.
What would be the penalty if a junior government team were caught doing the same thing.
Aren't all the journalists that are allowed to ask questions now carefully selected to ensure no such nasty awkward questions are asked?
Posted : 26/03/2025 3:39 pm
I follow a couple of US MX bods on Facebook from back in the day, and their threads are fascinating - I've know doubt they would have been friends in the nineties, but they are opposite sides of a Grand Canyon of a political divide now. Interesting the vehemence with which both sides speak - it feels like the anti-Trumps are more logical and less quick to insult, but I've zero doubt that's my own bias at work.
That place is bost, no idea how you fix that.
Posted : 26/03/2025 3:47 pm
Question for anyone with actual knowledge of this: what defines "classified"?
Is it a default state for some types of information, or an official status that someone has to sign off "this is classified at level X"?
Wondering whether these statements (seemingly nonsensical to laymen like me) along the lines of "this chat was sensitive, but not classified" actually hold any water whatsoever, seeing as (as stressed by the Atlantic) they contain advance notice of attack plans with timings and details.
Posted : 26/03/2025 3:54 pm
I am not a lawyer, but the info on the attack plans was almost certainly classified given the details of the package and the timings. If not secret then certainly restricted. If the rumours of briefing that Signal was insecure are to be believed*, then two hours would have been enough time for the targets to GTFO of the area and hide. The "Daily Mail Rule" would be applied irrespective of the sensitivity.
In the UK for a normal person doing something similar it would have been a sacking and possibly prison. I do not think the US would be much different.
The dissing Europe was just rude, but would probably have been classified if it was a written note. Again, apply the "Daily Mail Rule" and see if it is going to put you in trouble.
* - I do not believe this. The biggest risk is arguably the unmanaged nature of the personal devices that the app was installed on, be it a mobile or a computer. People can be/are slack at updating devices that are not actively managed for them** and Russia, China, etc are good at finding exploitable vulnerabilities in unpatched systems.
** - And even then users will find a way of putting off updates because they hate rebooting things.
Posted : 26/03/2025 4:12 pm
From the live committee hearings it seems Signal had been identified as a risk in the relevant departments.
If any junior staffer had been involved, they'd have been sacked. The fact that they are Trump appointees seems to make them untouchable, which is being picked up and commented on quite widely. One of the committee is reported to have said this is what you get when you appoint unqualified people to important roles.
Had the Houthis managed to take down one of the US planes (I have no idea of their ability to do so) on the back of this breach, things might be looking very different.
Posted : 26/03/2025 4:53 pm
Question for anyone with actual knowledge of this: what defines "classified"?
The committee questioning yesterday on this was excellent
Q: Was this information classified?
A: No
Q: Great, please share the information with us now then
A: No
Q: Why not, its not even classified?
A: Errrrrrrrr.....
Posted : 26/03/2025 4:56 pm
The worrying footnote to this is to ponder how much bad news is being announced at right now in the US safe in the knowledge that it will be dropping right down the news agenda
Posted : 26/03/2025 4:57 pm
right now in the US safe in the knowledge that it will be dropping right down the news agenda
A new EOis trying to control the electoral system.
Going to be somewhat tricky legally since thats generally decided at the state level.
It should also be difficult at the political consistency level since the trumpites claim to be keen on state rights so removing electoral control from them is somewhat difficult to reconcile.
Posted : 26/03/2025 5:14 pm
So it is nailed on that Trump's senior officials lied - obviously those of us with brain cells already knew this, but now it is certain.
The messages included aircraft type, number, timings, target locations and munitions types, apparently. I don't know an awful lot about air defence, but if I was looking to shoot down planes involved in an imminent strike, I'm pretty sure all of those details would come in handy. Possibly altitude and distance as well - but the munitions type would give useful pointers on those...
Maybe the USAF personnel will put these lying bastards in a tight spot by kicking up a stink about it. That'll confuse the MAGA morons.
Posted : 26/03/2025 5:26 pm
Oh...
And one of those in the chat was in Moscow at the time.
Posted : 26/03/2025 5:27 pm
I believe it was even mentioned that one target had been identified entering a building shortly before it was destroyed.
Posted : 26/03/2025 5:31 pm
It would seem that the Atlantic are doing what the UK media did with Johnson and Cummings.
Deploying a little bit of extra info at a time to ensure that Trump and his cronies lie repeatedly and knowingly and the whole story is dragged out for longer.
There must still be some republican voters who have some mental faculties left, surely?
Posted : 26/03/2025 5:34 pm
Does anyone else think Tulsi Gabbard is quite hot*? Obviously this is countered by her being a weapons grade can of spam.
*asking for a friend
Posted : 26/03/2025 5:42 pm
Does anyone else think Tulsi Gabbard is quite hot*?
Wash your mouth out. She looks like cruella de vil..
Posted : 26/03/2025 6:02 pm
Completely off topic but what is it with US politicians (male and female) looking way older than their actual ages? A lot of them look like old people who've applied makeup with a shotgun in an attempt to look younger. Yet it makes them look even older. Like they're in the process of being preserved or pickled. I think this may require its own thread.
Posted : 26/03/2025 6:11 pm
ready reacted
There must still be some republican voters who have some mental faculties left, surely?
Not really, Joe 'ivermectin 'Rogan is the worlds most popular podcast
Posted : 26/03/2025 6:48 pm
funkmasterp reacted
The strikes were done by F/A-18's which are Navy/Marines rather than USAF. They would have been launched from a carrier.
Apart from alerting air defences any leak could have allowed the intended targets to move location and avoid the strikes.
For a bunch of seeming incompetents MAGA seem to have placed sympathisers in key appointments in agencies such as the FBI and CIA.
Posted : 26/03/2025 7:54 pm
pondo reacted
Oh...
And one of those in the chat was in Moscow at the time.
His incriminating defence was that the messages weren't going to his secure work phone but to his personal phone and that wasn't in Moscow.
Posted : 26/03/2025 8:19 pm
Trump just hit the world with a 25% tariff on all non US made cars.
Yes, that includes us. No exemptions.
Posted : 26/03/2025 11:15 pm
Trump just hit the world with a 25% tariff on all non US made cars.
Yes, that includes us. No exemptions.
There's no way this isn't going to bite trump in the arse... I have some Canadian friends, and they are not best pleased, to put it nicely.
The thing is Trump is volaitle and unpredicateble...he'll annouce tarrifs one day, and the next day he'll be like 'just kidding' psych!
And the day after he'll put the tarrifs back.. etc...
Investors don't like investing in that scenario, so he's only going to tank the US economy in the medium term.
In other news, Portugal has pulled out of buying USA made fighter jets from Lockheed-Martin... that's a hefty contract to lose.
No, you're all good. 
Posted : 26/03/2025 11:37 pm
Trump just hit the world with a 25% tariff on all non US made cars.
Yes, that includes us. No exemptions.
no, he hit AMERICA with a 25% tariff on all imported cars.
Posted : 26/03/2025 11:47 pm
pondo and funkmasterp reacted
Aye, next it will haggis and whisky.
I fear for the future of my my highland relatives.
Posted : 26/03/2025 11:53 pm
Yes, that includes us. No exemptions.
I imagine that most cars made in the UK will be sold into the European market and not exported to America, so limited impact on us. We make far fewer than we did also, another Brexit benefit. Germany will really suffer though.
Posted : 26/03/2025 11:58 pm
Yes, that includes us. No exemptions.
I imagine that most cars made in the UK will be sold into the European market and not exported to America, so limited impact on us. We make far fewer than we did also, another Brexit benefit. Germany will really suffer though.
But will it though? like it or not, BMWs and Merc's are very desirable, even in 'merica, and they are genearly expensive cars anyway.
25% on a car just means, that 60k bimmer now costs Yanks 75k, sucks if you are an American looking to buy a german car I guess. Oh well...
Posted : 27/03/2025 12:10 am
Trump just hit the world with a 25% tariff on all non US made cars. Yes, that includes us. No exemptions.
The economist on Newsnight just said that’s £5-6 bn of annual exports to US impacted. An awful lot of UK jobs will be affected. Grim.
Brexit benefit 
Posted : 27/03/2025 1:41 am
Many car companies have plants in the USA making models specific to or appealing mostly to the US market. BMW’s biggest factory is in the US.
But if this were about making America great, wouldn’t they use some of their billions to prepare the workforce and build the factories needed to bring the manufacturing back? I don’t mean government money, but the oligarchs.
im of the opinion that something else is afoot. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but I don’t think the people running the USA give a **** about working people. Or any people, for that matter.
my feeling is that the rest of the world, or the west, need to make a plan on how to reduce their reliance on the USA and do it quickly. Even if that means investing in the likes of fossil fuel infrastructure at the very time that many governments are trying to move away. And pooling money, labour and knowledge to be able to achieve what’s needed, where it’s needed.
Get on a war footing if you will (without the lease-lend that was essentially the USA taking advantage of Britain)
Obviously, I don’t know what I’m talking about butbid like to have some reassurance that governments are actually taking this seriously.
Posted : 27/03/2025 2:32 am
I imagine that most cars made in the UK will be sold into the European market and not exported to America
Jaguar / Land Rover are big Exporters to the USA.
Posted : 27/03/2025 7:25 am
A lot of them look like old people who've applied makeup with a shotgun in an attempt to look younger.
Search 'Mar-a-Largo Face'
Posted : 27/03/2025 8:20 am
so will we be putting 25% tariffs in Teslas? if not, why not?
Posted : 27/03/2025 8:22 am
It's pretty clear that Trump uses tariff announcements as a negotiating tactic, and it seems to work. Trump likes to make deals where people are reliant on his personal beneficence, he likes it when world leaders need to call him and plead their case as to why the tariffs shouldn't appy to them, and Trump agrees, and tells the world the next day that other world leaders should behave more like this other one, as he's "super nice, and smart" etc etc. BUt in his mind, they now owe him...or more correctly perhaps, he owns them.
Posted : 27/03/2025 8:25 am
so will we be putting 25% tariffs in Teslas? if not, why not?
Because most Swasticars sold in the UK come from China or Germany, not the US. And Elon is doing enough to damage their sales on his own, so tarrifs wouldn't do much more.
Posted : 27/03/2025 8:35 am
A 25% tariff should be put on any US cars though, what is that around 3 or 4 cars a year? Hands up those wannabee americans who bought a mustang.
Posted : 27/03/2025 8:49 am
But will it though? like it or not, BMWs and Merc's are very desirable, even in 'merica, and they are genearly expensive cars anyway.
Same argument as when people were saying that Brexit-induced pressure on German car manufacturers would lead to them lobbying Brussels to give in to our every whim.
I'm sure it will impact some sales, but your average twenty-something who wants a flash car they can't afford just buys it on tick anyway, so what's an extra X%?
Flooding the zone with shit indeed...
Posted : 27/03/2025 8:53 am
Yes, but it would send a message and hurt the First Buddy in the wallet.
As for the loss of F35 contracts, good news for Saab and Dassault shareholders. Shame I sold mine last year, but then my van got bought with the profits, so not really that sorry and Saab's dividend was shit anyway considering their order book and profits.
Posted : 27/03/2025 8:56 am
Does anyone else think Tulsi Gabbard is quite hot*?
Dead behind the eyes. Like Cheryl Cole.
Posted : 27/03/2025 8:58 am
Stay classy America!
Posted : 27/03/2025 9:05 am