When it comes to Trump and legal matters, only one question is worth considering: is he locked up?
Very much doubt he'll get locked up, but it doesn't matter. What is important is that he doesn't get to run for president again. A wrist slap penalty will be enough.
Section 2071 of title 18 of the United States code includes.
"The code states the person shall “be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States”.
Irrespective of what ultimately happens I can only hope he’s wracked with anxiety and uncertainty at the moment and that he can sense the unease around him. ****.
“The code states the person shall “be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States”.
Although I heard somewhere else that the good old constitution sets out the requirements needed to be president, and there's no requirement regarding fines or imprisonment, so does the constitution override the other legislation?
Well, there were no nuclear secrets when the constitution was drafted, and originalists on the Supreme Court will presumably decide that they don't exist, so Donald is off the hook.
he good old constitution sets out the requirements needed to be president, and there’s no requirement regarding fines or imprisonment, so does the constitution override the other legislation?
A quick Google does in fact suggest this might be the case. A supreme court loaded with republicans might very well agree ☹☹
Let the DoJ decide.
Multiple gobby republicans have suddenly gone very silent.
Dems should pile in now as hard as possible and capitaliae to the max before the mid-terms.
Think and behave like trump - opposition is weak, unco-ordinated and leaderless so kick them hard and repeatedly.
Forget nicey nicey; put the boot in - again and again ad nauseam.
The obstruction charge may turn out to be what gets him.
https://twitter.com/NatlSecCnslrs/status/1558489440091242497
"Sometimes they forgot" to retrieve classified documents.
https://twitter.com/costareports/status/1558652795494060033
Not that I believe Russian TV
But ....
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1558289365004128264?t=NImpVw9PfLmdXe8VFCdDsA&s=09
Could well be nothing to do with Trumpists, but my money is on it being a Trump nut lashing out.
https://twitter.com/LisaDNews/status/1558795937446871042
Users on Truth Social have leaked the names of the FBI agents who took part in the raid.... 😕
^ Breitbart published the warrant yesterday with all the officers names, utter dickheads who knew exactly what they were doing.
Thing is, this has been binary for a long time now.... you're either pro trump, or anti-trump, and nobody who was previously "pro" is switch to "anti" because of this.
I think the objective is just to get him convicted to prevent him running again - but the republican party will pre-empt that by getting him to endorse somebody (Ted Cruz probably) in order to secure the votes of his base, plus all the republicans who wouldn't turn out and vote for Trump.
Sad thing is, I think Ted Cruz would probably win
The democrats need to hurry up and get Dwayne Johnson on-board for a presidential run.
Biden will have to pardon him to avert a civil war.
Versus
Texas can't even keep their power on and get more subsidies from the government than any other state, but yes, Civil War is what will convince Biden to pardon Trump
The other day armed protesters turned up outside an FBI office all tooled up and wearing these military vests and "oh my god, they're serious" "they'll take down the FBI" was banded about..........until it was pointed out that none of the people wearing vests actually had the armour plating in them, because they're heavy and uncomfortable to wear. Not quite the "well regulated militia" they claim to be if they're not even going to make their cosplay outfits accurate.
Users on Truth Social have leaked the names of the FBI agents who took part in the raid….
According to people with accounts, Trump's social media app sent a push notification to all users pointing them to the unredacted search warrant on Breibart.
https://twitter.com/donie/status/1558225720488235008?s=20&t=asCriNy4g1y8YSChw4xCBA
https://twitter.com/donie/status/1558177585028145153?s=20&t=asCriNy4g1y8YSChw4xCBA
Trump has spent his entire adult life subject to law suits, legal actions, threats of arrest. In some years he has had dozens of legal actions against him at the same time. As former POTUS he has just raised the game but it is still variation on the old theme.
I honestly can't see this being much different. He'll stall, duck, dive, grift, shout, sulk, distract, blame, counter blame, deal and throw other people under the bus whilst whipping up hate and civil danger. Ultimately he'll just walk free, just like he has always done.
Trump has spent his entire adult life subject to law suits, legal actions, threats of arrest. In some years he has had dozens of legal actions against him at the same time. As former POTUS he has just raised the game but it is still variation on the old theme.
Yes and no. As far as I can tell, much of what Trump has dealt with/is dealing with is civil suits. Business disagreements, tenants suing him, banks chasing him, local govt re tax disputes or whatever. In those circumstances his ability to buy people off, stall and dissemble has served him well. After all, in civil cases in the US (and elsewhere) those with the deepest pockets can win by drawing things out until the plaintiff runs out of money. Even his recent taking of the 5th is in response to a civil case.
This is different. This is a very clear criminal case and he won't be able to "deal" in the same way. With federal cases like this, the rules are stricter and the options way more limited. Assuming he's guilty (ha!) the best he could hope for would be some kind of plea bargain. But given he is essentially the the capo di tutti capi there's nobody for him to give up (unless...)
Point is he's dealing with a different type of challenge here. These are federal criminal charges he's potentially facing and his usual tactics just won't wash
The other day armed protesters turned up outside an FBI office all tooled up and wearing these military vests and “oh my god, they’re serious” “they’ll take down the FBI” was banded about……….until it was pointed out that none of the people wearing vests actually had the armour plating in them, because they’re heavy and uncomfortable to wear. Not quite the “well regulated militia” they claim to be if they’re not even going to make their cosplay outfits accurate.
I saw an article the other day referring to these guys as the Gravy Seals 😂
Y'all-Qaeda is more accurate 😉
My favourite is a platoon of Forrest Trumps 🤠
It just keeps on getting worse for Donald. Now Rudy is effectively being asked where his loyalties lie (Rudy's skin obvs)
Furthermore, it's not just Rudy. That paragon of virtue and straight dealing Lindsey Graham is also going to have to choose between perjury and Donald..
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/15/politics/lindsey-graham-georgia-investigation/index.html
My god, but I would love to be a fly on the wall at DT's daily strategy/crisis meetings, though the FBI are probably getting it all word for word anyway
franksinatra
Full MemberTrump has spent his entire adult life subject to law suits, legal actions, threats of arrest. In some years he has had dozens of legal actions against him at the same time. As former POTUS he has just raised the game but it is still variation on the old theme.
Yeeeah, but, there's one thing between using your scary lawyers to defraud small businesses that can't afford to fight you, or dragging out cases til they run out of money, and trying to do the same with the united states government. There isn't a bigger dog. And you can't make a big public noise and then quietly settle out of course with a big fat NDA attached.
I do think he has a pretty good chance of just dying before it comes to an end though.
Turns out he took the documents by accident because he didn't have time to pack properly because he thought the insurrection would overturn the election.
https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1558847337354625024
I’d never have thought it would be the removal company who get the blame.
Trump's lawyers --- "How about you send us over a copy of the affidavit? "
American Justice dept ---- "Aye right,beat it,ya roasters"
😀 😀 😜
Turns out he took the documents by accident because he didn’t have time to pack properly because he thought the insurrection would overturn the election.
And I'm presuming the defence for not returning them when requested to on multiple occasions since is that he pinky promises to bring them back when he's inaugurated as next president?
I think he's saying that he didn't need to give them back because a president can just declassify anything he wants. Also, Obama and Hillary Clinton.
because a president can just declassify anything he wants.
Well, no he can't really.
It's not just a case of scribbling out the Top Secret on the document, there's a procedure and he didn't follow it.
Well, no he can’t really.
It’s not just a case of scribbling out the Top Secret on the document, there’s a procedure and he didn’t follow it.
That's in reality world. In Trump world, he can declassify stuff by just thinking about it. Paperwork is just another Deep State plot anyway.
I think this means that there is an ongoing investigation.
https://twitter.com/SarahNLynch/status/1559252746108280834
Yep, ongoing criminal investigation.
https://twitter.com/hugolowell/status/1559277226939539459
He really is a 10d chess player.
That he knew the FBI would carry out a raid and plant evidence and so declassified the relevant materials whilst still president is true genius.
Or is the FBI planting evidence an old excuse now?
Or is the FBI planting evidence an old excuse now?
I'm pretty sure it was a genius plot to expose Deep State agents in the Socialist FBI. He declassified the documents secretly knowing that the Socialists who have infiltrated the FBI would plant them. The Deep State Socialists behind it will be exposed any day now, but please donate $50 or more if you want to find out more.
This is actually a very important point. No serious lawyers will represent him because he constantly lies and also never pays his bills. So he's stuck with clowns who think real courts are like Better Call Saul.
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1559537028131393539
Does this mean that there is a second investigation in to the Orange Roaster?
It seems that someone has sought to unseal a different case, as part of unsealing the Mar-a-Lago search warrant. This then (maybe) means there is another case, currently not in public realm, against him?
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1559167998971224066
I enjoyed this.
https://twitter.com/kalaeveryday/status/1559355364578955267
The problems just keep on multiplying for big DT. Now Allen Weisselberg has agreed to testify against the Trump organisation..
And fixer-turned-DT's-own-Dominic-Cummings Michael Cohen has been across the airwaves saying that DT was holding the docs as blackmail collateral to be used if/when he is arrested and that Jared was the man on the inside..
rodent - I don't think that reporting is correct; Weisselberg has, apparently, decided to plead guilty but will not testify against trump.
We'll only find out when he (weisselberg) is in the dock.
As for kushner - hard to believe that he's anything other than upto his neck in whatever trump was doing.
Fair point Frank, it is indeed a bit more complicated than originally reported. This from CNN
The former chief financial officer of the Trump Organization is expected to plead guilty Thursday to a 15-year tax fraud scheme, but he will not enter into a cooperation agreement to aid New York prosecutors in their criminal investigation of the real estate companies' finances, a person familiar with the matter said.
Allen Weisselberg, a fiercely loyal, long-time employee of former President Donald Trump's company, is in advanced talks to plead to the indictment, the person said. The judge overseeing the case has set a hearing for Thursday morning.
Under the terms of the deal, which is still being finalized, Weisselberg would receive a five-month prison sentence but would serve about 100 days behind bars, the person said. Weisselberg faced up to 15 years in prison.
Weisselberg will not sign up as a cooperator, the person said, but he will testify at trial -- if the case moves forward and the Trump Organization does not itself reach a plea agreement. The judge set the trial for October 24.
So he's basically not going to cooperate with the prosecution in terms of helping them build a case against Trump, but will testify (under oath obviously) should the case reach court in October. If he testifies it will certainly be to the detriment of the Trump organisation, and probably to Trump himself.
So probably 50/50. He doesn't want to cooperate, but as part of his plea deal will take the stand and sing (assumedly) if it reaches court
Sooooo, anyone here who would be as loyal to an old boss as he is? I wouldn't but then who knows what leverage Trump still has on him, or what his rewards will be after spending (just) 100 days in jail...
Who says white-collar crime doesn't pay...
So he’s basically not going to cooperate with the prosecution in terms of helping them build a case against Trump
I think that's exactly what he's doing. He's managed to negotiate his prison sentence down to 100 days. So they either had a very flimsy case against him in the first place, or he's offered something pretty significant in return.
I'm 100% confident that the Trump organization has been doing shady and illegal shit for decades. He's managed to avoid prosecution only by bullying or buying-off anyone who tried to stand up to him. His foray into politics has suddenly made him public enemy #1 one for a huge number of people with the clout to actually hold him to account. He might be able to dodge one or two of these investigations, but they only need one to "land". I lose track, but there currently what, 10? 15 serious criminal investigations going on?
My money is on him falling off a yacht
Who says white-collar crime doesn’t pay…
Nobody does.
As far as Weisselberg goes, Trump has rewarded him and his family very well over the years. If he testifies, he loses all that. I'm guessing that he probably just resigned himself to whatever punishment he would get in order that his family get to keep living the good life.
that his family get to keep living the good life.
From what I understand his family live the good life because they've avoiding paying taxes on free money from the Trumps. If the Trump organisation falls, so does his apartment and cars and everything else. Weisselberg's what? In his eighties? He can't do more than a few months in jail otherwise it'll kill him. If they want the info he's got, it's better for the prosecution if they're a bit lenient, he serves a minimal sentence and in turn he says at least something on the stand. I think far from having a weak case against him, it's Hobson's choice as far a Weisselberg's concerned.
I think he's decided that being free and poorer is still better than spending the rest of his life behind bars.
It's certainly an interesting one. As far as I can see he's hedging his bets. Unless he's secretly cooperating behind the scenes, he seems ro be taking a position whereby by refusing to tell everything he knows, he's creating a scenario whereby he is preparing the ground for the Trump org to reach a plea bargain in turn.
After all prosecutors will make a decision on whether to accept that based on likelihood of conviction if it proceeds to trial. Without his testimony in advance the likelihood has to be less, albeit we don't know what else they know/how dependent the case is on him.
So it seems to be that his take is that if the Trump Org can't/are too stoopid to make a deal then he'll take the stand. Bit I'm willing to bet (50p) that they do a deal and it never gets to court..
