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As i've been watching people around me gradually get more and more stressed about the impending Christmas day and watching and listening to friends, work colleagues and family get so worked up about the latest toy, games console it crossed my mind that is there any real reference to the Christians version of Christmas anymore?
It seems to me (not that i am an expert in Christianity or religious) that it now resembles something more of a commercial enterprise than anything associated with the birth of Christ or what that stands for (which i am certain isnt the consumer fest of recent years!).
I've also noticed more and more shops opening on Christmas day, when were a nipper this just didn't happen.
Why does it start in November? For 2000 years it has started on the same day (every year always the same!), i dont need reminding of it for two months before the event which is always an anti climax frankly.
'Holidays' seems to be peoples term this year for referring to it - another import from the old septic tanks. It's not a holiday, it's Christmas.....Jesus etc.
Not too sure why, but it looks like its Christianity roots are well and truly being elbowed out in favour of some watered down version thats all about overspending, over eating and general excess.
Anyone else any thoughts .....apart from it being a right good knees up, an excuse to catch up with family etc?
It's what YOU make of it. Don't worry about what others are stressing about.
Oh dear. Who wants to tell him?it looks like its Christianity roots
never had any religous meaning to me or my family bit everything is more commercial than it was when we were younger
I am sure if you care about christ and all that its still that for you [ and that meaning]. Personally I dont really do either version of Christmas and prefer the solstice. How other people celebrate it has no bearing on me
PS we used to wait till december to discuss this issue
I'd not noticed.
It's not a holiday, it's Christmas.....Jesus etc
Holiday... Holyday.... Holy day.
Its literally a holiday.
If you believe that guff.
****. Are they doing it this year again?
A hedonistic midwinter orgy? Nope still very much what it always was. Despite the attempted rebranding by a death cult.
🙂
As Jamie said, it's what you make of it. If you don't want to go mad buying the latest and greatest gadgets, then don't. If you don't want to go shopping on xmas day, then don't. If you want to go blaming it all on some invisible sky wizard with genocidal tendencies, then please go right ahead.
For me, it's become a time to decompress for a few days: Chill, hang with friends and family, and stuff my face (I'm usually fairly careful with what I eat).
It is totally what you make of it.
Christmas this year our family are having a family food festival, where we all make something, all bring drink and just eat, spend time together and play board games. May be go for a walk with the dogs. We aren't a religious family, we also don't buy in to the consumerism of it all. We just see it as a time to get together and spend time as a family. That is the most important thing to us.
Presents can be easily bought, but in this ever manic world, our time is far more important. So we give that.
Oh dear. Who wants to tell him?
🙂
Love it and enjoy it.
For me as much as anything it's a great time to be around people you care about without the pressures of work and life in general.
This year we've got 4 days in Wales pre Christmas at a randomly booked cottage, black rock sands beach on Christmas eve with loads of other outdoor stuff chucked in hopefully, back home and off to mum's for Christmas day with stop over, outlaws for boxing day and the 27th, meet up with buddies for a ride and post ride beer sesh on the 29th then to top it all my best bud is back from oz for the first time in 3 years to hack round a golf course as tradition states then party at ours ny eve.
Time with the people i/we care about. As for the pressies they're an added bonus...
what's the phrase?..... something something Sherlock!
eat drink and be merry? sounds good to me. Who's got the chocolates?
jesus.. who? never heard of him, sounds foreign to me. *BURP*
Chose which altar you want to worship
Church altar
Altar of gluttony
Altar of consumerism
Your choice- your meaning
It's what 'you' make of it, like others have said. I'm sure some other religious 'celebrations' are over marketed in other countries too.
One of the local 'councils near work has called the Christmas light switch on as a 'Winter Light Switch on', and even the Community Christmas meal is a "winter meal". FFS !
This is the local council going mad, as just about every religion lives in this town, and we all celebrate 'other' annual celebrations too, Eid, Ramadam, Diwali, Chinese New Year, Easter..etc. etc...
I went to Manchester's Christmas Light Switch on a few weeks ago, it was full of just about every religion enjoying the evening.
So, it's about what you make of it -we don't do the latest stuff, folk appreciate hand made things (my wife and daughter have been making lovely gifts). It's not about money and spend.
Something better than a plug in 12v de-icer would be fine - tried it once last year just to test before it went in the bin - you start car, plug in de-icer, then hover this small element over the screen inch by inch until it defrosts in about 30 minutes, then try the next window. Binned it - warm water in a jug works better.
Its about celebrating all religions at the appropriate time of the year.
Yes, for the majority of people it has. But since more than half the population of the UK do not consider themselves as having any religion then it's not surprising.Do you think Christmas has lost its traditional meaning?
I am one of them so I wouldn't celebrate it in it's traditional sense, however I hate what it has largely become so I mainly do this bit.
an excuse to catch up with family etc?
Schools candlight carols this week. Looking forward to that
Pagan festival gets taken over by Christians then gets taken over by commercialism, who'd a thought it...
Carol shouting in our fav pub Xmas Eve 😀
I'm as atheist as they come, but I enjoy Christmas. I like the tradition of it and people do seem a bit more jolly and friendly. And its a week off work which can never be sniffed at, and i'm partial to banging out a carol or two when i've had enough wine - the only time in the year i'll sing in public. As for the virgin birth, three kings and all that, it's a nice piece of fiction...just like Die Hard, my favourite Christmas movie.
I'm as atheist as they come, but I enjoy Christmas. I like the tradition of it and people do seem a bit more jolly and friendly. And its a week off work which can never be sniffed at, and i'm partial to banging out a carol or two when i've had enough wine
Is that the atheist equivalent of a vegan smashing a doner kebab after the works xmas do?
No, I still overindulge every year.
Things I’ve learned this week after talking to my Mum:
It doesn’t start earlier every year, the manic Xmas marketing push has always started just after the kids go to school.
It’s not become more commercial in recent years - it’s been this way since the 80s or earlier - every year there is a ‘must have gift’ every year parents drive themselves nuts over it, every year kids drive them nuts because either they want everything or don’t seem to want anything.
Things that have changed;
Office Xmas party had evolved from a few drinks in the office after hours to a big event that used to be arranged in Sept but now Starts on Jan 1st.
Supermarkets have a ‘seasonal’ aisle now so they have a lot more Xmas crap than they used to - this my be the only thing that’s in regression - for the last couple of years they’ve put out the Xmas shit as soon as the ‘back to school’ stuff was gone, then they’d put it away for Halloween and then pull it out again after. This year they didn’t put it out till Holloween was over!
It’s not become more commercial in recent years - it’s been this way since the 80s or earlier
I was going to say 'complete bollocks', but the stats agree with you (for US anyhow)....
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Some [url= http://www.statisticsviews.com/details/news/5615111/ONS-reveals-latest-stats-in-time-for-Autumn-Statement.html ]UK stats from ONS[/url] (not inflation adjusted, so the rise will be flattened off once that's factored in).
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Actually, the 'office doo' has got better - it's now more those that would like to go out, than forcing folk. It's 'come here if you want to'.
Got 3 this year, and all with people I LIKE to socialise with.
PS been making up for it a bit after I spent 25th November 2015 until 8th January 2016 on a spinal bed with a badly broken spine.. I can at least walk now, if not ride as good as I used to.
Maybe, but Advent hasn't so that's all good for the immediate future.
+1 Jamie. A family gathering with plenty of good food for us, probably a bit harder this year with some illness to cope with but I'm sure we we'll manage to enjoy it anyway.
Have done a few christmases just me and my wife together when living abroad, that's good too, still plenty of good food and a bit more relaxed than a larger gathering.
Christmas seems to be an argument between Christians and people who for some reason really like John Lewis /coca cola adverts.
I'd rather take the dog for a walk and then go for a pint. But I suppose that's what I do most bank Holidays anyway. I kinda have to do a Christmas meal but that's out of sympathy for other family members, I really can't be arsed with Christmas.
And I'm slightly offended that everyone thinks I should fall in line with the nonsense.
Now hold on, I'm not sure about all this talk of fiction, you could really cause some offense, pretty sure Die Hard is based on a true story.
Returning to the original question - Yes.
The only decent thing to come out of Christianity is Christmas presents and Easter eggs
Personally it's always been the more pagan mid winter thing despite having a mother who taught at a church school and having the religious crap rammed at us from an early age at school.
It's about getting together with family and friends and celebrating another year. Just because some idiots want to hijack it for their religious needs doesn't mean we should let them.
This old chestnut.
Pretty sure the giving of gifts on or around 25th of december predates our lord and saviour by a good few thousand years...
The only decent thing to come out of Christianity is Christmas presents and Easter eggs
Education clearly passed you by.
Education clearly passed you by.
The aqueduct?
I'm sure some other religious 'celebrations' are over marketed in other countries too.
From what I can tell, I don't think this is the case. Seems to be much more restrained in other countries.
From what I can tell, I don't think this is the case. Seems to be much more restrained in other countries.
I blame Henry the VIII.
We're going skiing with wife's brother's family. Doubt I'll have time for any boar hunting or wassailing this year.
In our house, it's a get together during the shortest days of the year to make sure your family and friends are well fed and warm.
Pagan festival gets taken over by Christians
If we're being really pedantic, the date choice of the Christians probably has more to do with the Roman celebration of Sol Invictus rather than transplanting X-tian celebrations onto the heathen Pagan hoards. Now, whether you want to call Pre-Christianity Roman Polytheism; Paganism, is another thread altogether 😆
I'm sure some other religious 'celebrations' are over marketed in other countries too.
I think Xmas is probably the biggest, but then it's one that based around the exchanging of gifts, which you've mostly got to buy so a bit of a marketeers dream really.
The real over-blown version though is limited to the UK, the US and a few other places (they go mad for it in Bahrain oddly).
Eid is a big one, traditions include, feasts of rich foods, gift giving, buying lots of new clothes so it has some parallels with Xmas, it's done to excess in parts of the Middle East, but most things are. They're big on charity at Eid. If you see Muslims handing over £20 notes to the Homeless at the end of summer it's for Eid.
As per a thread I made a few months back, when the shops tell us Christmas has begun,I am not keen on Christmas.
Of my lad was still a kid and if Christmas didn't go on for MONTHS now I might be a little different.
I went in Asda a could of days back to buy a few bits and people are well and truly already stocking up for the event.
I noticed a rather sad and forlorn trolly with a bit of tinsel wrapped around it for a Christmas Present Drive near the entrance. It was empty and it took quite a bit of asking to even find out which organisation it was for.
Decided to put a few bits back on the shelf that I really didn't need and bought a couple of toys to put in there instead.
Made me feel a little less jaded about Christmas for a few hours anyway.
Again, if Christmas didn't have a run up that is about a 1/4 of a year long these days I would be a lot more positive about it.
Depends on what you mean by "meaning". As a kid, it used to mean making things out of coat hangers, tinsel and baubles whilst counting down the days until I got to unwrap my lego set.
Equally, Christianity appropriated a great deal from pagan cultures - including the concept of a mid-winter festival to stave off the sheer bleakness of a Northern European winter.
So equally, the real meaning of Christmas could legitimately entail the removal of one's attire, being painted with woad and dancing around a slab of stone stark naked and blind drunk.
Put THAT in your window display, Selfridges.
It's great for scaring the kids 'round here. Father Christmas is called Olentzero and is a drunk charcoal-burning, sickle-wielding giant.
From wiki
in Areso children would be told to come home early. An adult would then dress up as Olentzero and scare the children still out on the streets with a sickle.in Berastegi if the children did not want to go to bed, a sickle would be thrown down the chimney and the children told that Olentzero would come to cut their throats if they didn't go to bed.
in Dima a straw puppet dressed as Olentzero with a sickle would be hung from the church tower after the midnight mass on Christmas Eve and if children had been behaving badly, people would say Onontzaro begi-gorri txaminira da etorri, austen baldin badegu barua, orrek lepoa kendu guri "Olentzero with the red eyes has come to the chimney, if we break the fast, he will cut our throats" - referring to the traditional fast in the week before Christmas
A sickle down the chimney would have got even me up the stairs to bed on Christmas eve.
Krampus looks pretty cool too
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Christmas means different things to different people and always has done.
It also means different things to people depending on what stage of life they're at.
Shops wouldn't stock Christmas stuff if it wasn't selling - clearly a lot of people want to "buy early".
Personally if I see Christmas stuff in the shops in October it doesn't even register as Christmassy because I know that Christmas is a long way away yet.
Maybe the sort of people that get sucked into the "Bigger/Best" competitions at Christmas are generally the sort of people that get sucked into the same competitions with regards to Cars/Bikes/Post Codes etc etc?