[Closed] Diane Abbott - I'm surprised it has taken a year

she has subsequently tweeted somethign about the context being misinterpreted... but then that's what racists do.

You are speechless that a black MP pointed out racism and a tory took it out of context to score political points?

You are speechless that a black MP pointed out racism and a tory took it out of context to score political points?

It is V8 - its just that this is not racist.

TJ - I think the point is that she used the phrase 'white people' which is the sort of casual racism that when applied to 'black people' as if they were an homogenous group causes a lot of comment.

'Some white people' or even just 'some people' might have been a less controversial choice of wording, no?

White people love playing 'divide & rule'

Negative generalisation based on nothing more than skin colour? sounds like racism to me.

even just 'some people' might have been a less controversial choice of wording, no?

You mean like, "Some gun owners might be mentally unstable, we should look at how we can better control access" rather than "THEY'RE ALLL NUTTERS! THEY WANT TO KILL YOU! BAN THEM! BAN THEM ALL!"

Selective approach to when a sweeping generalisation is a bad thing, eh?

Precedent is an 8 game ban.

[i]Selective approach to when a sweeping generalisation is a bad thing, eh? [/i]

who me? I've deliberatly avoided the gun ownership thread - it was already over 4 pages when I saw it and I guessed it was probably not going well 😉

Politicians and the media tend to subscribe to the belief that there is a "Black Community", "Asian Community", "Muslim Community" etc and these communities all have "Leaders".

I think it's that sort off bolx the fragrant Diane was objecting to.

wwaswas, no not you..... 😉

It's not racist if it's a racial minority commenting on a majority, the same as it isn't heterophobic(?) for gay people to openly mock heterosexuals, and it isn't generally considered sexist for women to make lewd remarks to men or mock them mercilessly.

Probably social mores, not worth getting worked up about.

BigJohn - Member

Politicians and the media tend to subscribe to the belief that there is a "Black Community", "Asian Community", "Muslim Community" etc and these communities all have "Leaders".

[b]I think it's that sort off bolx the fragrant Diane was objecting to. [/b]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but my interpretation is that she is saying precisely the opposite of that.

''White people love playing 'divide & rule' We should not play their game''

Not referring to C19th as present tense (unless she was quoting someone else)
Generalisation (negative) based solely on colour of skin

8 game ban, as loum suggests 😉

(However, "political opportunist catches out political opportunist" would make a good summary, I reckon)

It's not racist if it's a racial minority commenting on a majority, the same as it isn't heterophobic(?) for gay people to openly mock heterosexuals, and it isn't generally considered sexist for women to make lewd remarks to men or mock them mercilessly.

Wrong on every count, I'm afraid. I sincerely hope that was in jest.

Politicians and the media tend to subscribe to the belief that there is a "Black Community", "Asian Community", "Muslim Community" etc and these communities all have "Leaders".

I think it's that sort off bolx the fragrant Diane was objecting to.

''[s]White people[/s] Jews love playing 'divide & rule' We should not play their game''

TJ see how ugly that sounds? Just for once fella, please.

You are speechless that a black MP pointed out racism and a tory took it out of context to score political points?

That tory MP being Nadhim Zahawi who, I'm just guessing, has a better grasp of racism than most on here.

More importantly, why is such a porker shadow health secretary. Not setting a very good example is she 😉

It's not racist if it's a racial minority commenting on a majority,

Allthepies - FATTIST!

i tried mcboos's rule of thumb too. it made me feel all grubby.

but i don't think i'll calling for her resignation, we're all capable of momentary daftness - especially in this age of instant and irretrievable communication...

It's not racist if it's a racial minority commenting on a majority,

apartheid?

You are speechless that a black MP pointed out racism and a tory took it out of context to score political points?
That tory MP being Nadhim Zahawi.
🙂

Is she not the one who shouted about private education. And then when she saved her mp salary/expenses money sent her son to a private school.

mcboo - I see your point - but |I don't agree - cos I read the context. In context not racist at all IMO just sloppy use of language

CaptainFlashheart

Wrong on every count, I'm afraid. I sincerely hope that was in jest.

agree with yo there capt.

It is racism.

oooh, I see the BBC has changed the page to include a smiley Diane rather than a shouty one - she must have a good PR advisor / lawyer

Come on Teej, I'm reeally REALLY loking forward to watching you try to wriggle out of this one. Alternatively, you could admit that you were a little ahem, premature shall we say, and you were wrong...

Edit, blimey, TJ said "IN MY OPINION"!!!!

Folks, real progress has been made here today.

Surrounded By Zulus - Member
It is racism

v8 - have read the context I do not believe Abbott was being racist at all - I think its cheap point scoring from a tory. She use the words poorly and left herself open to the accusation.

Its just cheap point scoring form a tory - thats all it is.

it would be 'racist' to suggest that 'Politicians and the media' are exclusively white

It wouldn't be a racist statement. Just utterly incorrect & ridiculous.

Little racist slip of the tongue, who cares? I am white and I don't, I rather like her. I would defend her as a good character in parliament and a good tv wonk.

However, it is racist to generalise based on someones colour. If you think it isn't then you really need to sit down and consider how much party allegiance blinds you to the truth on other matters.

Dear Diane has a history of naivety and this is just another example. Need to engage her brain better before making points that may be valid but just need to be expressed better.

But there is no doubt that there is an asymmetry in how the term 'racist' is used. At its extreme (not here) it becomes the tyranny of minorities. Racism like most -isms will have been eradicated when the need for a qualifying adjective (white,black,male, female, young, old) has gone.

Interesting to compare DA's comments, taken out of context or not, with the comments of Cindy Butts and Madix on Newsnight last night. Far more balanced views on all issues including progress within the Met on eradicating racism, the issue of positive discrimination, bad versus good officers, the record of black officers within the police etc.

Newsnight then went downhill when Rev Dr Giles Fraser came on for first TV interview since his resignation. I think the CoE are quietly rather relieved that he has gone now, albeit with adverse publicity. Not one religious comment throughout the interview from a member of the Church was telling.

I dont think Diane Abbott is actually any more racist than some old bore at the bar in a golf club whinging about immigration. But they fall into the same category, people of a certain age and generation who are stuck in their ways and who cant see that the country has moved on. Wouldnt have thought either of them would make credible candidates to sit in parliament but then I dont live in Hackney or Surrey.

Can we expect a statement from Dianne soon:

"Some of my best friends are white, but......"

😆

she got it wrong, end of
she used the same generalisation she was complaining about, which is a schoolgirl error

such are the dangers of twitter!

Nobby - Member
You are speechless that a black MP pointed out racism and a tory took it out of context to score political points?
That tory MP being Nadhim Zahawi who, I'm just guessing, has a better grasp of racism than most on here.

I'm going slightly off topic, and without meaning to detract from the Diane Abbott discrace, but why do you guess this? You know him well?

And btw, have a look at this video of Nadhim Zahawi in action.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/simonheffer/8272594/Nadhim-Zahawi-Up-to-his-brass-neck-in-sartorial-disgrace.html

TandemJeremy - Member

mcboo - I see your point - but |I don't agree - cos I read the context. In context not racist at all IMO just sloppy use of language

TandemJeremy - Member

v8 - have read the context I do not believe Abbott was being racist at all - I think its cheap point scoring from a tory. She use the words poorly and left herself open to the accusation.

Its just cheap point scoring form a tory - thats all it is.

Can you please explain what you think the context that makes this acceptable is? This simpleton here can't understand how you think what she said was just poorly worded.

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Next thing TJ and Elfin will be telling us that its racist to say there's a problem with gun crime in the black community 😉

Maybe "they" are all violent fantisists as well eh TJ?

http://www.thenewblackmagazine.com/view.aspx?index=2493

Dear Diane has a history of naivety and this is just another example. Need to engage her brain better before making points that may be valid but just need to be expressed better.

This

Its all it is - a poorly expressed point that gave a political opponent ammunition.

Torminalis - Member

However, it is racist to generalise based on someones colour

If you think it isn't then you really need to sit down and think about how much party allegiance blinds you to the truth.

its not racist its simply naive and ill expressed and taken out of context.

TJ, if it had been said by a Conservative, you'd be up in arms, frothing with self-righteous indignation. Get over yourself, man!

She made a negative comment, based solely on the colour of skin. That is racist, however you cut it, whatever the context. Was it malicious? Almost certainly not. Was it racist? Yes.

Torminalis - Member

However, it is racist to generalise based on someones colour

[TJ's reply was] [b](That is) correct.[/b]

So, she was being racist then. Get it yet?

[i]its not racist its simply naive and ill expressed and taken out of context. [/i]

*wanders off to look for that gif of the bloke openign and closing his mouth whilst searching for the right words to express his disbelief*

Well funny watching all the politically right posters on here shouting racism.