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I know the cps/police know what they’re doing but if it’s accepted he’s mentally ill is there any point in prosecuting him for stuff he does while he’s mentally ill?
That is what the courts will decide.
That is what the courts will decide.
Not really. There's a public interest test as part of the charging decision but once prosecuted the court has to convict if the charges are proved (murder excepted). It could then hand down an absolute discharge which would be a good indication.
Obviously different rules apply if your name is Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.
All the article says is he was being treated for mental health issues at the time of most of the offences.
That could mean anything from mildly depressed to full on schizophrenic as far as I'm concerned so I think I'd want to know what it was before making up my mind up.
As above though the courts will have that information so I'm sure they can decide based on that.
All the article says is he was being treated for mental health issues at the time of most of the offences.
That could mean anything from mildly depressed to full on schizophrenic as far as I’m concerned so I think I’d want to know what it was before making up my mind up.
As above though the courts will have that information so I’m sure they can decide based on that.
Good point.
I know the cps/police know what they’re doing but if it’s accepted he’s mentally ill is there any point in prosecuting him for stuff he does while he’s mentally ill?
If he is using that as sole defence, then that’s a route with finite consequences. One he may regret later in life.
Did you deliberately mention Dianne abbott and the word count in the same sentence? This is what she will go down in history for 😂
Yeah - odd that. When the black lady gets her sums wrong it's remembered forever. When the white man (Philip Hammond, for example) gets the cost of HS2 wrong by 20 billion quid, nobody can recall it the next day.
Not really. There’s a public interest test as part of the charging decision but once prosecuted the court has to convict if the charges are proved
There's an IF there, which is why there's a court with a jury rather than just someone rubber stamping a CPS decision.
When the black lady gets her sums wrong it’s remembered forever.
I'm not sure what her skin colour has to do with being bloody awful with numbers.
It's likely she's just beyond incompetent; the prejudice is all yours.
I’m not sure what her skin colour has to do with being bloody awful with numbers.
It’s likely she’s just beyond incompetent; the prejudice is all yours.
Maybe. What reason do you propose for the difference in approch to her compared with Hammond?
Abbott is not dim. got a degree from a top uni. She was a recently diagnosed diabetic and her blood sugars where all over the place in that interview causing confusion
there is no doubt at all that the slagging of Abbott is based on racism
Having no doubt about something in your own mind doesn't actually make it a fact.
And some of the people who think they are not racist might actually be racist!
ajaj
Subscriber
Perhaps we should be asking why there are no other options and why the care for the mentally ill is so atrocious that the Police are left picking up the pieces.
I agree that mental health care services needs more funding. However, the assertion that Police are left picking up the pieces is an ill informed statement; conversely it is the Police who use mental health as a way of not becoming involved.
tjagain
Member
there is no doubt at all that the slagging of Abbott is based on racism
There is also no doubt that you know a lot less than you think - which is also not based on racism.
Diane Abbot received 45% of all reported abusive tweets sent to female MPs in the runup to the 2017 election- 10 times that of the number received by the next highest. One in ten of 140000 tweets analysed that mentioned her was abusive. On average, black and asian female MPs receive 35% more abuse than white female MPs even when removing her from the total.
I'm sure none of that has anything to do with racism though, it's all because she's incompetent. Especially the letters with swastikas and pictures of monkeys.
Does a white man receive the same slagging off for making mistakes while ill? Obviously not as we can see from the treatment of Hammond for just one tiny example.
Its so obviously racist that if you cannot see it then you really need to question why not.
However, the assertion that Police are left picking up the pieces is an ill informed statement
It really isn’t. Mental health services are pretty poor so police, ambulance and emergency departments get left to pick up the pieces.
And a hearty 'well done' to the OP as well.
Nice to see you starting 2020 with the same level of class you demonstrated throughout 2019.
Well to be fair he created the thread in 2019.
I know. 🙂
He’s an upper class Cambridge graduate lawyer with five years of FO service behind him & pushing thirty. The Police attended in response to a call. I suspect the public school demeanour and expensive suit will have been a bit more noticeable than his skin.
I don’t think so. Ever tried being young and black and seeing which aspect of you is noticed the most? Clue: it’s not your public school demeanour and expensive suit...
She always sounds totally incompetent in interviews and whenever somebody challenges her on anything just changes the subject. I don’t know how anybody could ever vote for her, she’s an utter joke.
Sounds like description of BJ, and he’s just won a hefty majority...
Does a white man receive the same slagging off for making mistakes while ill? Obviously not as we can see from the treatment of Hammond for just one tiny example.
Hammond isn't making mistakes; he's lying. He is a Conservative if you need to confirm this.
Abbot on the other hand is an unapologetic hypocrite and useless with numbers. If you don't know a fact admit it, don't make up numbers as it will haunt you forever. Low blood sugar? I remember that excuse; gave it the contempt it deserved.
Black, white or purple in colour is not the problem. Neither is her gender, smell or whether she is left handed.
It's her credibility, her integrity and the fact she is Jezza's no.1 ally that makes her a figure of ridicule.
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DracSubscriber
Mental health services are pretty poor so police, ambulance and emergency departments get left to pick up the pieces
What experience are you speaking from?
What experience are you speaking from?
30 years of working in front line healthcare, working alongside police and mental health nursing.
Sometimes one just wishes one hadn’t asked the question.
the fact she is Jezza’s no.1 ally that makes her a figure of ridicule.
So its just lucky that she's a black woman too?
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Drac
Subscriber
What experience are you speaking from?
30 years of working in front line healthcare, working alongside police and mental health nursing
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That sounds like you speak from experience. But care to identify in what role?
It is easy to have a bias if you occupy a position at a level you do not see the intricate workings.
As a black woman she's obviously a target for racists. But swastikas and monkey pictures represent a tiny proportion of the overall criticism she gets. Simply because the people who would send them are a tiny minority of the population. Mostly she's criticised for her competence and the policies she supports. She'd be criticised for those regardless of race or gender. Perhaps she gets so much stick because she actually is the most incompetent senior politician in office at the moment.
"Perhaps she gets so much stick because she actually is the most incompetent senior politician in office at the moment."
It's almost as if you had never heard of Boris Johnson!
I can confirm what Drac says, although from a slightly different perspective.
For example:-
- local A&E dept (small rural hospital) locking the door to stop us taking in a woman who had been threatening suicide, because it was the third time that week and there was nothing they could do.
- nearest psychiatric unit (70 miles away) regularly take 24hrs to come and retrieve people detained under MH legislation, meaning they spend all that time in a police cell as a ‘place of safety’, which is bordering on unlawful.
I don’t blame any particular individuals for these things, but the system fails massively, to the detriment of both MH patients, and the wider public whose emergency services are unable to get on with the rest of their work.
Whilst I respect paramedics and ambulance drivers which I assume Drac is.
However their job is responding to emergencies and transporting patients, they Are not involved much more than that.
My initial point was in response to whether the person would be prosecuted because of a mental health concern; which typically means no once Police identify mental health issues ... they typically contact MH services to pick up.
ambulance drivers
However their job is responding to emergencies and transporting patients, they Are not involved much more than that.
FFS!
All depends on the particular MH issue mooman.
However their job is responding to emergencies and transporting patients, they Are not involved much more than that.
A modern paramedic at the ready to meet the transportational needs of the public.
The difficulty is identifying what is behavioural and what is a mental disorder. It is my opinion - that the Police are quick to identify the nature of an incident as mental health .. even when psychiatrists will explain it is a behavioural presentation. Hence why hospitals may take the extreme measure of locking doors, which is likely a position of making the Police claim responsibility instead of dumping it (excuse the language) onto health.
Maybe MH services work different with Drac - but MH hospitals where I work have their own transport when doing MHA assessments to Section people; they will not use standard ambulances from general hospitals. As said I got a lot of respect for ambulance drivers like Drac - but they are at a level where they do not see the more intricate processes involved.
Whilst I respect paramedics and ambulance drivers which I assume Drac is.
However their job is responding to emergencies and transporting patients, they Are not involved much more than that.
Hardly. Couldn’t be more wrong.
Ok .. it going down the usual STW lines of taking sides and forgetting facts.
So thats my last comment. Hold onto whatever ignorant views you have.
I know this a mile OT but I'm once again loving moomans work.
Having a pop about ignorance whilst describing paramedics as ambulance drivers.
Chapeau sir.
Mooman is Dr helper he just carries meds in those little pots and makes tea and toast.
It is my opinion – that the Police are quick to identify the nature of an incident as mental health .. even when psychiatrists will explain it is a behavioural presentation. Hence why hospitals may take the extreme measure of locking doors, which is likely a position of making the Police claim responsibility instead of dumping it (excuse the language) onto health.
Just going to have you put you down as completely clueless then.
Yh mooman seems to have lost his digestives along with his marbles but not his interwebbed balls
Anyway what was this topic I entered into reading 🤣
I know every single Police Officer in one particular local town, on a first name basis.
Why?
Because I used to look after a young lad with severe mental health and learning disabilities.
Every couple of days he'd do a runner.
We could not lock him in or restrain him as he was deemed to have capacity.
Local mental health services wouldn't deal with him because they said he had learning disabilities. LD team said he had mental health issues.
The company I worked for couldn't give a shit as long as the local authority kept paying the bills.
Guess who ended up having to deal with him?
Yep, the Police.
They were very understanding but completely sick of the issue. They just don't have the resources to deal with this and neither does anyone else.
We are facing a genuine shitstorm of a crisis in mental health services.
Unless you have experience of this I can understand if you think I'm exaggerating.
I'm not.
So its just lucky that she’s a black woman too?
It's irrelevant; of no consequence.
But still latched onto by some to distract from how crap she is. The colour of her skin can't exclude her from criticism.
Wow, this has gone a bit haywire
I personally think Abbott doesn't have a full grasp of her portfolio, but the fact that she is a black woman is why she attracts so much hate and vitriol compared to the incompetent white male politicians.
And as I'm married to a social worker who will be travelling 60 miles tomorrow to visit a child in the "nearest" suitable mental health unit, some people really have no idea the pressures our frontline public services are under
taxi25
Member
Mostly she’s criticised for her competence and the policies she supports.
boomerlives
Subscriber
But still latched onto by some to distract from how crap she is. The colour of her skin can’t exclude her from criticism.
Kind of fascinating that you've both managed to take a post about abuse and rewrite it as "criticism".