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I know the OP said no debate - but those in favour of the death penalty - what would you have done with the Guildford 4?
what would you have done with the Guildford 4
Ah now Teej, no smoke without fire and all that... 😯 🙄
no - replace it with hard labour and no priviliges gulag style
teej, what about sutcliffes victims families? 2 sides to every coin.
No.
what would you have done with the Guildford 4?
Looked at the time like a politically correct decision to free them. Still does.
what about sutcliffes victims families
No ton, I think they suffered enough don't you? There's no point in executing them.
Still does
Funniest (or least well informed) post of the week award?
Guildford four? I think Lord Denning might have forwarded a position on that one...
Personally, I'd have had them declared [i]Francs_tireurs[/i] and punished as such according to international law...
yes, for somethings, people would be less keen to murder if they knew they would be hung. However, the guilty person should a) admit to being guilty or b) have conclusive evidence to show that they are guilty. c) should not have been a provoked murder. so that narrows it down to about 99.99% of crimes committed in the UK?
dd, you know what i mean.
when it is a open and shut case.
No.
yes 100% yes
[i]people would be less keen to murder if they knew they would be hung. [/i]
Sorry, but that's completely not true.
It's never an open and shut case, that's the problem.
No.
no
yes, for somethings, people would be less keen to murder if they knew they would be hung.
Yes that's why there are no murders in the US.
[i]It's never an open and shut case, that's the problem[/i]
Damn straight
Ton - Guildford 4 was considered open and shut - and there are many more cases of people convicted for murder since freed
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Downing_case ] Stephen downing[/url]
Signed confession, forensics - the lot.
I was going to say yes but then I like this, too.
[i]No - but make prison cheap and tough for lifers[/i]
But prison should be cheap and tough for all inmates. Death's too good for non-mentally ill psychos. They deserve to be locked in a hole and pooped on for the rest of their life.
I know the OP said no debate - but those in favour of the death penalty - what would you have done with the Guildford 4?
In that case, executed 4 innocent people. There may be an argument that the 4 would have been less likely to have been framed had the punishment been death. Maybe that's a bit naieve though ?
No. But life inside should mean life.
tazzymtb - Member
It's never an open and shut case, that's the problem.
shipman
nielson..panther
nielson...cannibal
brady..and friend
sutcliffe
maudsley
fred's wife
robert blak
duffy and mulcahy
ireland
mark martin
steven wright
allott
shall i go on.
YES! and I'd start with the bastid who killed my cousin.
trailmonkey - Member> I know the OP said no debate - but those in favour of the death
> penalty - what would you have done with the Guildford 4?In that case, executed 4 innocent people. There may be an argument that the 4 would have been less likely to have been framed had the punishment been death. Maybe that's a bit naieve though ?
Or [i]more[/i] likely in that there was less chance of them appealling once dead?
grumm got there before me. I was going to mention the US but it'll never change some person's minds
No.
Ton - you want a ;list of people found guilty but now known to be innocent?
How about the mentally ill - as Beverly Allot clearly was
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IHN - Memberpeople would be less keen to murder if they knew they would be hung.
Sorry, but that's completely not true.
Im sorry, but My only knowledge of this was 1 year ago, some figures I saw in an R.E class, so they were probably wrong. Im just imagining that death would seem like more of a deterent to some doped up 18year old with a knife than the 30 years(?) he would probably spend atm
grumm - Memberyes, for somethings, people would be less keen to murder if they knew they would be hung.
Yes that's why there are no murders in the US.
grumm, I said LESS KEEN, for goodness sake stop just jumping down someones throat, It was just an opinion.
no teej, just open and shut cases.
and do you think keeping people like allott locked up till they die is a better solution than putting them to death with a injection?
Aside from the fact that killing is just plain wrong, there will never be a justice system that is 100% reliable. it will never happen. and therefore, you cannot kill people when there is an element of doubt, however small to their guilt.
I'm sure Derek Bentley's family gains no comfort from his conviction being overturned 45 years after he was hung.
We talk of the guildford 4, but what about the birmingham 6, bridgewater 3, m25 3. judith ward.
too many people would have wound up dead because of an unreliable justice system. You can't say sorry to someone once you've killed them.
Ton - the point is both the Guildford 4 and Downing were considered open and shut cases.
Are you going to make a new category of guilt? Beyond all doubt is what is currently used - but now and then we get it wrong.
What is your new standard of proof to be? Really really no possibility of doubt at all? We could call it the Ton standarfd of proof.
If you want the death penalty you have to accept the excecution of innocent will happen.
ton
yes, please continue and give the life backgorund to each of them including any history of untreated or undiagnosed mental illness and any abuse that may have happend to them in their develpmental years which may have made them more prone to act in a criminal manner in later years.
Are some people just born evil or are thay made that way through a series of life events, which if identifeid and managed early enough and correctly would lead to a significant reduction in such cases?
I'm not sure, but I think any taking of life is wrong, what would you like to do? torture someone to death because you think they were particually evil? have a public execution? how does that make you any better than them?
No.
And yes ton to your question, because killing people is wrong.
EDIT: agree with that jim, you cant say sorry to someone after they are dead, but Its the tax payers that have to fund the prisons
I also head that some people murder to get back inside prison so that they dont have to worry about paying bills, they just live inside....
Another no here
teej and tazzy
you are presuming i agree with the death penalty....actualy i do not.
i am just asking...and in some cases it would be applicable surely.
Cullen bay - what a load of twaddle. I have been inside prisons and they are extremely unpleasant places to be.
Pictures are hung. Criminals (and innocents in some cases) are HANGED.
What method of execution for shameless pedantry?
ton- no assumption by me matey, just playing devils advocate against your stance otherwise it'll all get terribly dull 🙂
Pictures are hung. Criminals (and innocents in some cases) are HANGED.
my god I can't believe I said hung.... thats what happens I suppose after a weeks worth of being thrown into exam halls...
I'm well hung ....does that count? 🙂
The point is Ton how do you decide which cases it would apply to? You cannot do that with 100% certainty. If we ever have the death penalty then innocent people will be killed.
This is apart from the philosophical argument against it - its purely pragmatic.