Why would you have the mother's mother's heritage in mind when making a silly joke about royals being trivial and unimportant?
ftfy
Awesshoe - I don't read it that way at all. Isn't it amazing how things look different from different perspectives?
I don't see how this falls into 'unconscious bias' either. Its not discriminatory. Its posting a silly picture on a message board without a second thought to race, gender or any other particular characteristic. Other people may have good reasons for offence, which when pointed out, led to him taking it down and apologising for the inadvertent offence. I don't see how that warrants a witch hunt.
Doesn't matter if DB is racist or not
Doesn't matter if you look at the picture and think it is racist or not
The point is that there are people who do think it is racist, therefor it is.
It is DB's duty, as a public figure, to have thought more carefully before posting. I'm sorry for him and would give him the benefit of the doubt, but he missed it. It does not change the fact that it is offensive.
IMO the BBC are correct in their action and I would expect that this is covered in their policy on the use of social media.
To all those who are suggesting that this is just part of a long running gag, think on this Megan’s mum is a black woman from the USA. Do you think she thought.1. That’s just Danny Baker being a bit silly
2. pretty openly racist
Probably the latter.
But it makes the massive assumption that Danny Baker actually knows who Megan’s mum is.
I’m not a royal watcher but I am aware of the world around me.
If you don’t watch the news or read any current affairs-based websites then I’d still be amazed that you hadn’t picked up on the news that a member of the royal family was dating/engaged to/ married to (with a fair amount of pomp and coverage across the world)/expecting a baby with an American woman (who was reasonably famous in her own right) with a mixed race family history.
How can you honestly not have seen any of the talk about it?
You’re on the internet right now! 🤷♂️
Lister and nealglover -
Even knowing all that, you then still have to consciously make the link between silly picture featuring chimp to make point about how silly all the royal 'news' is and the mother.
Its not a natural leap to make.
It must be wonderful to view the world from the dadsnet perspective, it's<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> a classic example of ignorance which is defined as a lack of knowledge or information.</span>
If he was consciously unaware of how liking a monkey to a person of mixed heritage after growing up in the UK is racist, then his bias is certainly unconscious as the association has been made everywhere.
without a second thought to race, gender or any other particular characteristic.
The mother and grandmother of the child are both black. I wont entertain the idea that Danny Baker in his media role, didn't know that. Anyone who thinks that commemorating the birth of a child to a black woman by using an image of a chimp is OK needs to think about it a bit more carefully
I call bullshit on he didn't know Meghan's mum was black. With all the hoo-ha before the royal wedding and all the pictures and news articles of Doria Loyce Ragland before, join and after the royal wedding, he didn't know is complete and utter bollocks.
I’m not a royal watcher but I am aware of the world around me.
If you don’t watch the news or read any current affairs-based websites then I’d still be amazed that you hadn’t picked up on the news that a member of the royal family was dating/engaged to/ married to (with a fair amount of pomp and coverage across the world)/expecting a baby with an American woman (who was reasonably famous in her own right) with a mixed race family history.
How can you honestly not have seen any of the talk about it?
You’re on the internet right now! 🤷♂️
The point is I don't care she is of mixed race heritage. I know who she is and know what she looks like but it just does not register as a thing I should acknowledge as a relevant thing. My wife watched whatever that series was she was in incessantly before she started dating Harry. When she and Hewitt's son got engaged there was some discussion in the press about this being momentous and I had to pinch myself to ask why. I am sure it was front and centre and a bit of a scandal in the consciousness of the royal watching, curtain twitching racist-lite Daily Mail reading types but to me all that had registered that the great goon had punched above his weight and blagged a very pretty wife and the other one's wife would probably be a bit put out as she was no longer going to be the hottest princess in town.
It is perfectly possible to know but not see(in a metaphorical sense) and I'd hope we will one day get to the point where everyone is wired that way. Maybe then jokes about monkeys can be funny again.
Lister and nealglover –
Even knowing all that, you then still have to consciously make the link between silly picture featuring chimp to make point about how silly all the royal ‘news’ is and the mother.
Its not a natural leap to make.Lister and nealglover –
Even knowing all that, you then still have to consciously make the link between silly picture featuring chimp to make point about how silly all the royal ‘news’ is and the mother.
Its not a natural leap to make.
My first post, back when this thread was very young, was to the effect that it took me several seconds to make this association. But I'm not a fast thinking media person with life-long east London football connections (though I am middle-aged and white like 92% of those reading - audited figure - yes all three of you). So it shouldn't've been any leap at all for DB.
Whatever, to the various high-court judges who don't listen to the radio, have never heard of Megan Markle, are only dimly aware there's a bunch of parasitic royals in Buckingham Palace, don't know about bananas being chucked at our footballers, whatever your/my levels of ignorance/naivety/innocence are irrelevant frankly as we've not been on the receiving end of ape-related racism. Our levels of offence or lack of are not the issue.
I call bullshit on he didn’t know Meghan’s mum was black.
The chimp didn’t represent her mum, it represented the baby.. which is ginger (probably)
don’t know about bananas being chucked at our footballers
That is truly ****ed up. I know next to nothing about football, but the fact that some dickheads are doing that is just.....I don’t even have words.
Regarding Megan(?) I also had no idea she was mixed race and now I know I still don’t care.
Has anybody contacted the chimp from the photo to get its opinion?
The problem is; He may have known that the Meghan is mixed race, but the point is that he may not have considered the issue when he made the post. Of course likening a mixed race child to a monkey is racist, but if he’d not had the fact in his mind then he is guilty of forgetting the context of his post. It’s a bit like chatting at a party to someone about death and then remembering afterwards they have just been recently widowed. Crass? yes Insensitive also, but it isn’t deliberate. He may be seeing ‘the Duchess of Sussex’ rather than a person of mixed race.
This is clearly an issue that people will interpret as they wish. I absolutely can’t stand Danny Baker, but I just can’t imagine why he would attempt to make a blatantly racist point about the Royal Baby. He’s made a cock up, but I cannot see why he would risk so much when there is no chance he would get away with it.
Well he did declare it's red sauce every time, not that brown colour sauce.
Makes you think eh?
He made a racist post in ignorance but then doubled down on that ignorance by issuing a non apology. If you’re in a hole stop digging! In that context BBC reaction was entirely sensible.
It is a racist post to racists (and to those constantly vigilant for potential offence I suppose), but if your mind doesn’t work that way there isn’t anything obvious to be upset about.
Absolutely.
Its how the picture is interpreted by the individual. To Baker (apparently - and I have no reason to doubt him) it was about the royals being one big circus show ... but to those with obviously racists views they see an instant connection between monkeys and colour of a persons skin.
Markle and other black people probably entitled to be offended
Markle is as much white as black.
"... but to those with obviously racists views they see an instant connection between monkeys and colour of a persons skin."
So the black people and those who are aware of the discrimination that they face are racist? Got to love whitesplaning, racism is still racism whether it affects you negatively or not.
Racism isn't just hate either, it's indifference, apathy, ignorance... It all contributes to discrimination and lower life outcomes for anyone who is non-white, it's all very well saying that you don't see peoples skin colour as an issue but then you also don't see the difficulties they face.
I've just seen Danny Baker on BBC news claiming that he had no idea who had had a baby. Does he genuinely expect people to believe that?
I have zero interest in the royal family but even I knew that the wife of Princess Diana's son had had a baby.
I wish I wasn't bombarded with constant news about the royal family but I find it impossible to avoid it. How the **** does Danny Baker manage it? Presumably he has access to a radio?
I also knew the mother was mixed race quite simply because I had heard the rantings of racists. Is Danny Baker really that unaware?
When I saw the picture I made the connection instantly. It's nice to think that some people are so insulated from racism that they didn't - lucky you.
Aweeshoe - your first post hit every nail on the head. Well said.
If his mind doesn’t work that way then he must be a really seriously ignorant person considering that we live in a world where professional footballers face monkey chants and banana throwing. A large proportion of the population face vile discrimination on a regular basis but hey why should Danny Baker know about that?!
Also very impressed with aweeshoes post.
Also very impressed with aweeshoes post
And as impressed with his perseverance in explaining the situation to dullards who won’t change their mind.
I’ve just seen Danny Baker on BBC news claiming that he had no idea who had had a baby
Nonsense. More nonsense.
you only have to read this
BBC.CO.UK I wish I wasn’t bombarded with constant news about the royal family but I find it impossible to avoid it.
Really? I honestly know next to nothing about them and only found out about a baby because of this thread. In what way are you constantly bombarded? Do you live with them? Then again I actually thought Danny Baker was dead so my knowledge of celebrities is not good at best.
Way too many middle class white DB apologists on here.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anyone-else-call-their-kids-a-little-monkey/
Could have linked a dozen threads all saying how stuppid/planned/ conniving and racist this sort of thing is. But good ol Danny boy, nah he didnt mean it.
My ass he didnt, bloke is way to clever to do this by accident.
tpbiker is right.
It is a racist post to racists (and to those constantly vigilant for potential offence I suppose), but if your mind doesn’t work that way there isn’t anything obvious to be upset about. It took me a long time to work out what the offence was.
Meghan Markles race is no issue whatsoever to me, in fact I could barely care less so it really does need someone to point it out before it even registers. I presume the same for Danny Baker.
Because you are white and therefore don't get the offence. Telling others what they should or shouldn't find offensive is bollocks, assuming others don't find things offensive just because you don't is bollocks.
Eat_The_Pudding is right - DezB is an idiot. If Baker had done this by accident he wouldn't have done the non-apology.
Besides, if intent was all that was needed - I could walk into my work office and greet everyone by calling them a "Whaddup my ****" in a jovial fashion. I wouldn't mean it, but it would probably get me punched.
How many of you have seen South Park? (specifically the Nagger incident) There are a lot of Randy Marshes on here.
So the black people and those who are aware of the discrimination that they face are racist? Got to love whitesplaning, racism is still racism whether it affects you negatively or not.
+1 This is a classic racists defence mechanism.
assuming others don’t find things offensive just because you don’t is bollocks.
I don’t think anyone is claiming that though are they? Folk have just stated that they didn’t see that it could be offensive until it was pointed out to them. I definitely fall in to that camp. Naive or just white I dunno.
I’ve no idea what Danny Baker’s intentions were as I know very little about him. Other than I thought he was dead and looks like a cheap version of Danny DeVito. Either way I bet he’s regretting it now.
He should have just done a rape joke, seems like those are all right (if you're a 'Kipper).
he wouldn’t have done the non-apology.
Raybanwomble is a stupid moron calling “my sincerest apologies” a non-apology.
I'm quite surprised at the number of people saying they had no idea that associating black people with simians is a well established historical insult. I know sod all about football, but I'm well aware of the institutional monkey insults aimed at black players. There have been plenty of stories about other cases over the years, where celebrities and politicians like the Obamas have been targeted. It's not even the first time it's been discussed here. Five page thread from last year:
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anyone-else-call-their-kids-a-little-monkey/
(Edit: Sorry, didn't notice that link had already been posted)
I'm also struggling to get my head around the allegedly obvious interpretation that Danny Baker's post was a play on the Royal family as "performing monkeys". It really seems a stretch to come up with that one. Danny Baker is a pretty sharp humourist, so his jokes aren't usually incredibly opaque.
Baker has never come across as racist from what I've heard him say, so I've no idea what he was thinking when he posted that Tweet, but the way he used that photo is obviously wrong, and he made a hash of the subsequent "apology".
No funkmasterp I don't live with them, I read and listen to the news, you presumably don't.
You can't be selectively death and blind when you read or watch the news or listen to the radio.
Presumably Danny Baker also knew about the birth, he just seems to have very limited information about it, despite his apparent strong urge to comment about it.
cumberlanddan
eat_the_pudding – you are talking shite.
What does Roseanne Barr have to do with Danny Baker?
If you can't see that (rosanne barrs) tweet about a mixed race person implying they were the child of an ape bears some relationship to a story about (danny bakers) tweeting a picture of an ape while referring to a mixed race child then you have my pity.
Archie's dad dressed as a Nazi for a laugh
Archie's grandad pleaded for a paedophile not to be punished
Archie's great grandad rivalled Bernard Manning with his racist "jokes".
Irony meter off the scale.
I’m quite surprised at the number of people saying they had no idea that associating black people with simians is a well established historical insult.
I'd be very keen for you to point out anyone who has said that. What has been said is that there are people whose first thought when they see a picture of a monkey/chimp is not racism orientated and also people who have said the first thing they think of when thinking about Megan Markle is not mixed race person. That is very different to your assertion.
I’m also struggling to get my head around the allegedly obvious interpretation that Danny Baker’s post was a play on the Royal family as “performing monkeys”. It really seems a stretch to come up with that one.
Which just goes to show we are all wired differently as I find it very odd that it would not be immediately obvious. Like seeing one of those magic eye images instantly and finding it strange when someone else can't.
The point is that there are people who do think it is racist, therefor it is.
Really? If some people believe something is racist then it definitely is?how many people? Is one enough, or do we have to get into double figures?
The Guardian had an article claiming that barbecues were racist. By your reasoning as some people think that it’s definitely true - so any white person who has a barbecue is racist.
The stw racists are tying themselves in knots over this!
... another thread implodes by the Brexit thread loons I think!
It shows how blinkered and pathetic some people are, you're really clutching at straws if you're juxtaposing racism with bbqs and questioning how many people does it take for a comment to be considered racist.
The answer is none, if you're surrounded by like minded eejits. If you compare, joke or even just tolerate dehumanising people then you are a bigot and are participating in discrimination.
Claimed ignorance if you wish but you're looking mighty stupid trying to defend it
He's always been upfront about his preference for red.
Listened to his radio shows for two decades now and never heard a hint of racism, however he does love that "chimpanzee riding on a Segway" ditty - so I absolutely believe it was just an unfortunate coincidence.
His reaction may have been a bit awkward, but I think the underlying anger is more to do with his famously prickly relationship with the "pinheads" at the BBC than with the social media lynch mob mentality.
Shame the news headlines couldn't have read "Danny Baker fired for unintentionally 'racist' tweet", as casual viewers may unjustly jump to conclusions.
Fans of his radio show may wish to check out the Lineker and Baker podcast. Brilliant stuff and includes Gazza stories not fit for radio.
Thank you, nick1962.
He's really the Duke of Edinburgh and ICMFP
@aweeshoe
It was a serious question - I cannot quite get my head around the "some people think it's racist therefore it is racist" statement.
I also think you might try a bit more tolerance and argue a little more politely. No doubt you by now have me down as some sort of Klansman, but I don't think so.
I try not to be racist though I accept that sometimes I probably am. I apologise if it's pointed out to me that I've said something crass or ignorant. I think very carefully about things like racism and I consider how things might seem very different to me than they do to someone who has experienced bigotry.
If there are people here you that you consider have got this wrong you need to explain why, not call them bigots and morons - you'll never enlighten anyone that way, they'll probably just call you a moron back.
1: I can totally understand why people think Baker's post was offensive
2: I can believe that he made that post without considering the potentially racist message
3: I accept that this lack of consideration is itself part of racism
4: He seems to be genuinely sorry, has apologised and withdrawn the post
5: If Baker had been punching down at someone poor and unable to defend themselves I would be much more upset - the Royal Family are probably well-insulated from many of the effects of racism
6: Sorry if I've wound you up, that was not my intention.
I had no idea that Meghan was mixed race. I do follow politics and sport but its perfectly possible to listen to the news and skip royal gossip.