There was a pretty serious collision this afternoon just outside Manchester City Centre. Pedestrian crossing the road who has not spotted oncoming cyclist. Cyclist sees pedestrian and shouts stop several times. Pedestrian hesitates and then steps in front of cyclist. Pedestrian has a couple of minor injuries, cyclist in a bad way.
Its a strange one, and not that rare it seems. But where would the cyclist go from there? What if he doesn't recover? What about the damage to bike/kit? Seems like a bit of an 'uncovered' area with regards claims/blame etc.
Its a strange one, and not that rare it seems.
I'm surprised it isn't more common, with kids walking to school stepping out into the road to get around a bunch of their mates taking up the whole path, muppets with headphones engrossed in their phone/whatever stepping out into the road without even a token glance to see if anything's coming, stupid bints pushing prams out into the road while texting/checking Fb/yakking to their brainfried mates...
And none of them pay any attention to bells, either; one silly cow walked into me [i]after[/i] I rang my bell to let her know I was behind; too engrossed in her bloody phone to pay attention, both of us ended up on the Tarmac, but at least her phone got smashed. #karma 😈
Surely if the cyclist had time to shout stop several time he had time to start braking.
Pedestrians are idiots though, I used to ride through leeds centre most days and the amount of times people just walked across the road in front me was Redicoulous. Adults as well not kids!
I did once wipe an bloke out in Halifax centre as he crossed between cars while I was filtering down the side. Both hit the deck, his glasses broke my rear mech was knackered for some reason. We called it quits and went our seperate ways. On lookers didn't like me though....
I'm always a bit puzzled by these things - the rider has time to shout stop several times but never considers putting the brakes on? Sounds like it was totally avoidable but for someone that thinks randomly shouting is more appropriate than slowing down. Imagine a car driver leaning out of the window shouting 'move!' before ploughing in to someone. Pure stupidity.
Hopefully both ped and cyclist will have some sort of insurance cover either through bike or home insurance, as both may well approach caims lawyers and claim damages against each other,
Hopefully both will make a good recovery .
This is one of my favourite grumpy old man topics. Pedestrians drive me nuts and I would be happy to donate several £'00 to fund a civil case against the pedestrian. Peds need to wake up to their responsibilities just like motorists and cyclists; i.e. not step into the road without looking etc. If the ped is wearing any form of headphone then death penalty should be mandatory. Just wait until I am Global President of Road Traffic Regulations.
There's an awful lot of people without home insurance
They'll just have to do what we used to do and put it down to experience or agree (ha) who was in the wrong and pay for any damage.
Pedestrians are idiots though
Arghhhh! We're all pedestrians.
Biking is like driving sometimes and in ratrace areas needs a bit of defensive handling, expect the worst etc. If a ped isn't responding to shouting, i'd be heating up the rotors getting ready for some emergency stop action.
[i]I'm always a bit puzzled by these things - the rider has time to shout stop several times but never considers putting the brakes on? [/i]
Have you really not been in that kind of situation to realise how it could happen?
The kind of hesitation/ movement of the pedestrian makes you think they will get out they way, but they don't. You think you can go behind if they continue, or in front if they stop. Usually it works out ok, but obviously in the OP's one it didn't.
Still, bloody typical of STWers to blame the cyclist. "oh I'm a much better rider than that" ffs
Back when I stayed in Edinburgh, I did manage to have a collision with a pedestrian. I came down the Mound (for those that know it) with flow of traffic, behind run of cars. Ped standing waiting to cross, looks at me (I thought) then steps out and gets half way across the road !! I shout a warning, slow down and go behind him - whereupon he tries to get back to start point. Tangle of bike, cyclist and pedestrian ensues, no-one hurt, he has grace to say "I guess that was my fault" and limps off...
As above though, I got daggers and pelters from the onlookers, tut-tutting away..
Dez, he's right, if you anticipate a collision then you should slow.
Safety is more important than a few seconds on your journey.
if i was shouting move I would be braking as well.
I learnt this the hard way as I rode into a pedestrian who actually jumped into my path to avoid me as I swerved round them and then blamed me!!
Better to stop than worry about right and wrong IMHO
If you have the chance to shout more than "sto........" then you have a chance to do something else instead.
Treat everyone else as if they are stupid unless they have shown themselves to be otherwise.
Locking up the back or an endo to stop at their toes will leave a much bigger impression.
happened to me on deansgate last year; woman stepped out straight in front of me as i was rounding the corner onto quay street and i was launched across the junction into the middle of the road, she fell back onto the pavement behind. i was way too close to have been able to stop, but had obviously already slowed down a bit to take the corner (not that i ride that fast anyway). in the eyes of everyone present (except for the woman on the ribble who stopped to make sure i was alright), it was clearly my fault as i was on a bike. riding through a green light. not doing anything wrong.
i still have a bit of a bump right on my hip from where i hit the road, but was mostly lucky there were no cars near me at the time...
and yeah, my bike was fine!
Sorry guys, you're talking rubbish, Every situation is different. Every single one. Unless you were in that very situation, you cannot possibly say what should have happened.
Have you really not been in that kind of situation to realise how it could happen?
Yes, often. I always brake anyway, expecting them not to see me. The only time I'd ever hit is if they stepped straight off the road into my path, leaving me no time to do anything, shout or otherwise.
What if there had been something close behind him? Or by slowing down some other danger would have arisen? You. Don't. Know.
No, I don't - not commenting on the original case, simply agreeing with the idea that (barring extreme circumstances) if you've got time to shout, several times, you've generally got time to slow quite a bit.
Arghhhh! We're all pedestrians
Not when I'm on my bike I'm not!
Maybe I should change it to, [i]some[/i] pedestrians are idiots!
Dez, obviously we don't know the ins and outs of what the op's talking about, and no one is blaming the cyclist per say , BUT, if the cyclist has time to shout stop, SEVERAL times he should be braking and trying to avoid a collision. It does sound like he hit the ped quite hard if he's in a bad way so he must of been going fairly quick.
Just to clarify - cyclist shouted stop but was it was already too late. The impact wasn't huge, but because of the way he fell and tangled in his bike he has come off very badly, ie life changingly bad. The woman's injuries are very very minor and indicate the low force of impact. Nothing cyclist could have done.
Someone in my little dales town hospitalised when they stepped in front of a bike on the High Street* a while ago. Very sad, as will have been a momentary assumption of "I can't hear any traffic" = "there's nothing coming".
To address the OPs main query it's tricky, I'm more bothered about the cost of long term care than physical items, but if you're not well off and save to buy a bike etc its still a big hit I suppose. It might be me, but is it physically possible to shout "Stop Stop Stop" and not brake, just on a subconscious reflex level, I reach for the brakes when I see anything, even if I'm just covering them it's involuntary.
Also as above, we are all pedestrians. Bob to the shops this morning milk? you were a pedestrian (or really effing lazy).
EDIT, missed the above, I was busy keyboard warrioring...
* local paper ran innocent bystander mown down by satan riding a racing bike**.
**for racing bike read "A road bike of non descript spec, we wouldn't know a racing bike if one ran us down on the High Street in cold blood."
Once had a woman push her kid in a buggy onto the road in front of me without looking, luckily time to swerve and ask her to please look after her child - they love that they do.
I had that once and she asked me to think of the children
I moved to one side so she could see my child on the back in the bike seat and said i was and I was looking where i was going and my actions i just kept her child and my child safe whilst she endangered them both
That was equally well received
Every situation is different. Every single one.
They have commonalities that I use to learn from so i do not repeat any mistakes.
If you can shout stop repeatedly you can also pull your brake in the same amount of time.
I do not see how you can deny this tbh
As I said I learnt that lesson the hard way.
Surely if the cyclist had time to shout stop several time he had time to start braking.
Probably about to beat his personal best on Strava
Two car drivers saw what happened and stopped and spoke to the police and were both of the same very strong opinion that the pedestrian was unequivocally at fault - not that that helps the poor sod with his head injuries.
On the face of it the cyclist should have been shouting and braking, but I don't know if he/she wasn't. I've hit a ped who gave me zero chance to even brake before and had the buggy thrown in front of me and I know a mate who now has pin in his collar bone thanks to someone paying more attention to their phone than the road so I know peds can be very quick to jump out too.
My wife got knocked off her bike whilst cycling through York a couple of years ago. The other women cyclist stopped looked at my wife on the ground then cycled off. Wife had a lacerated liver and spent three days in the ICU ward of York District hospital. We approached the police about the accident but they say they couldn't do anything as tracing the other cyclist would be impossible!
If the cyclist is shouting stop several times and then hits the pedestrian, its 100% the cyclists fault. They knowingly hit someone. It's that simple.
Seosamh77 you're wrong.
No I'm not.
you are wrong. Had the pedestrian not been in the road there would have been no accident.
Its like claiming that because I beeped my horn in a car the accident was my fault.
We do not know if they could have stopped but they could have slowed is my only point
I once waited at a crossing the lights went red and the traffic stopped so I stepped onto the crossing and a woman on a bike crashed into me at speed knocking me over then rode of swearing at me...
I've also had people jump out in front of me and I haven't mowed them down so both cyclists and pedestrians can be idiots and you don't have to be one of them 😉
I hit a pedestrian on a shared use (no cars) road a couple of years ago. She was in front of me, I called to say I was passing on her left and she stepped to her left. She did a bit of a tango and in the end I hit the roadside barrier rather than hit her straight on. Still not sure whose fault it was but I'm glad that neither of us were particularly hurt. Both of us could have avoided the accident and she had bruises and I lost skin and blood.
I would say, though, if you've got time to shout "stop"/honk your horn/ring your bell SEVERAL times, you might want to start to slow down.
Pedestrians household insurance may well cover personal liability.
That said, circumstances are a bit vague, strongly suspect that the cyclist would be held to blame, in the same way that we usually assume that the motorist is to blame.
tbh This rule really covers it, whether it is a junction or open road.
[i]watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way[/i]
https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/road-junctions-170-to-183
Doesn't mean either are at fault, just that you ought to at least try to avoid them - although I put one in hospital when he stepped out on me; I was riding one of these...
He didn't see me, because he didn't look.
tbh This rule really covers it, whether it is a junction or open road.
I'm not sure why you are taking a rule that only applies to junctions and saying it covers any other part of the road as well?
That rule only applies to side junctions (hence the use of the word 'turning').
every single day a pedestrian steps out in front of me on my commute at some point.
if I braked cautiously every time in anticipation of someone jumping out I'd never get anywhere.
stupidity, impatience, arrogance and ignorance are mostly to blame.
I crashed into a pedestrian about 6 months ago.
Lady crossing the road, looking the wrong way, just stepped out from the curb into the road at the perfect time for me to hit her. Luckily I'd only set off from a red light and was slowly accelerating. I escaped with a few scratches, unfortunately for her I'm 14.5 stone and she flew about 6 feet down the road. She had to be taken to hospital with a suspected broken hip. As a few people have experienced I was made out to be the guilty party. Didn't help that the woman was screaming at me. Although it wasn't my fault at all I felt pretty guilty too.
I asked the ambulance crew if they wanted to take my details but they weren't interested.
I rang the police to report the accident but again they weren't interested. They said because no motor vehicle was involved it was just seen as bad luck. "Just one of those things". I supposed these things happen and we're all responsible.
My sympathies to the cyclist, hope they recover quickly.
As has been mentioned, every situation is different, saying the cyclist could have braked without being there is daft. take the recent youtube video of the road cyclist who had a car turn right across him, he managed to get out "oh f off" before he smashed into the side of the car wrecking his bike (but leaving him relatively unharmed). Didn't seem like he had much chance to brake.
Some of you are judging the situation based on very little information, we've no first hand account from the cyclist here, nor any knowledge of their skills or experience or the condition of their brakes. Yes we should all look after our brakes but some are just shit and from what I can tell if you ride a brakeless fixie you're *ed if an unavoidable impact situation occurs.
Worst crash I had commuting was when a ped stepped out in front of me on deansgate. I yelled at him, managed to scrub of a little speed and dodge just enough to wing the guy. He was fine I hit the tarmac pretty hard and felt very glad to have been wearing a lid. Avoidable? yeah, I could have not been tanking it down a narrow gap between parked cars and stationary traffic. I learnt my lesson.
It's hazard perception. A hazard was spotted in advance([b]several[/b] shouts, op's words not mine) and not correctly accounted for. Cyclists fault.
^ too many assumptions. You don't know what actions the cyclist did or didn't take, nor the timings involved i.e. how much time he had to react, and therefore you cannot say he didn't take the correct action in whatever time he had available to him.
hope the guy does make a full recovery
the default is always defensive riding and try to ride with time to deal with random motion
I've often pondered about how many ped's that don't look for cyclists are actually just crap drivers that have somehow managed to get out of their car for a short period of time?
In urban business centres I know a lot of ped's have just (literally)wandered off the bus or train but in shopping areas I suspect the number who are simply covering ground from car to errand is pretty high, similar dog walkers on shared trails judging by number of parked cars at access points
Always think the point that a lot of cyclists are also drivers is always a bit odd as I'm pretty sure a lot of crap drivers are crap and inconsiderate cyclists etc etc
[s]Cyclist[/s]Driver sees pedestrian and [s]shouts stop[/s] blasts horn several times. Pedestrian hesitates and then steps in front of [s]cyclist[/s]Car. Pedestrian has a [s]couple of minor injuries[/s]dead, [s]cyclist[/s]driver in a bad way.
If it's as you described in the time it takes to shout stop more than once a lot of speed can be wiped off. You didn't describe the classic "From between parked cars" accident.
Anyway go back to the Motorbike vs Car thread, leave blame out of it and think how both parties could have helped to avoid it. The only person out there you can control is you.
