To be fair that cartoon does capture the madness of the current situation.
I'm conflicted by trolls like time-deprived Elizabeth up there. On one hand they are clearly being provocative morons but we have regulars who post in a similar style, i.e. vexatious ranting, sometimes reductive arguments, exploding with bile whilst providing their intransigent views as they reacted to a post rather than read it thoroughly, whataboutery, ****hattery, skullduggery, haberdashery etc etc
On Radio4 earlier there was a discussion about narcissists. They do not lack self-awareness, they effectively attenuate those signals. I mean why would you have to question yourself when you are always correct and you're superior to others? Surprise surprise I thought of this forum whilst listening.
To be fair that cartoon does capture the madness of the current situation.
The thing is, climate deniers seem to think Just Stop Oil's idols are Davos billionaires, when if there's anything that both sides can agree on it's **** those guys
Sums it up
https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1683705795001679872/9_ls7RxB?format=jp g" alt="https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1683705795001679872/9_ls7RxB?format=jpg&name=small" />
“three thinking”
Why do weird grammatical mistakes only happen when I post on the internet? I wouldn't dream of writing stuff like that on paper. It must be some sort of conspiracy!
climate doomsday cult narrative
I preferred their earlier albums
Oh and plenty of very credible scientists disagree with the climate doomsday cult narrative.
I'm intrigued, name a few or better still link them, who they work for and their scientific CVs. I've met a few thoroughly currupt scientists completely sold out to their paymasters but none of them were ever credible.
Climate denial is an odd one because to my mind if there's any conspiracy present it's that the oil companies knew about this and have spent significant sums on rejecting, denying, diverting, but now accepting that their product is tipping the word towards oblivion and claiming there is no other choice. It's unfortunate that all conspiracy theory, i.e., anything which counters or opposes official narratives is lumped in together because obviously the human world is complex and nuanced and vested interests work tirelessly to maintain the status quo or create new vehicles to funnel revenue into their own pockets.
However, the rejection of fossil fuels is a stake to the heart of some of the most major economic and political players, such as the Saudis, OPEC, and the respective families who are the richest and, therefore, arguably the most influential in modern history. Petrodollars underwrite the global economic system and the US has an unequivical history of relentlessly crushing any challenge to this petrol-hegemony. Therefore, my impression of the idea of climate change as a conspiracy theory is one being pushed by well-financed and far-right 'thinktanks' who have successfully positioned it, Inception-like, into the collective mind of the alt-right echochamber.
If there's any conspiracy there, that's where it is for me, as evidened by the relentless astroturfing, mysterious new additions to online debates, and capture of certain 'celebreties' (cough cough, Jordan Peterson?) or supposed academics, but maybe I should just remove my tinfoil hat 🙂
It's interesting that many conspiracy theories attempt to make "sense" of the chaos by blaming someone. Big pharma, big oil, big government, lizard queens, bored aliens, global cabals (yes, we know who you mean 🙄 ) etc. ...but with climate change, it's the exact opposite.
Seems almost like they just enjoy playing contrarian and/or select information based solely on supporting their existing world view and long-held personal beliefs.
... it's a bit like parents who do not believe that their darling little Timmy or Tabitha could ever be naughty.
Oh and plenty of very credible scientists disagree with the climate doomsday cult narrative.
like who? If you’re going to make a daft statement at least back it up with some credible evidence.
Anthropogenic climate change is real and well documented. There’s a significant rise in concentrations of various GHG’s in the atmosphere. The rise in CO2 that just so happen to track nicely with the Industrial Revolution for starters. Then there’s Methane and the most funnest of all SF6! Because mankind can always find something to **** up nature.
There’s a handful of scientists none of whom publish any science on climate change who always get mentioned by the deniers.
Less than 2% of them from what I last read. Of those that have published faults have been found and the rest are unverified. So not exactly reliable sources of information. If more than 98% of those that look at this for a living, to a professional degree, broadly agree then that just flattens any conspiracy nonsense.
The fact that there are still those denying this is staggering. They should go join the auditors from that other thread.
Some new work projects an AMOC collapse 2050 +/- 25 to 40 ish years so perhaps as soon as 2025
Some thoughts on the topic by proper serious prof who's done lots on AMOC changes in a warming climate
The sun controls climate change:
Here's a good source for counter arguments. Clue, 98% of scientists is a made up misrepresentation:
Most of you seem to have outsourced your critical thinking to the Bill Gates funded Guardian. You have been totally taken in with all this total climate crisis BS.
The mainstream media have been caught misrepresenting temperature figures by quoting surface temperatures as if they were air temperatures in an effort to scare people. The agenda driven BBC have suggested that the fires in Greece are as a result of climate change, rather than you know, the actual cause which is arson and accidents. The TV weather maps have been catastrophised, where warm summer temperatures that used to be represented by green and yellow are now presented in shades of deep orange, red and black, to frighten us all.
Most people can thankfully now see through the utter BS. But seemingly not you sanctimonious, champagne socialists on here it seems. Anyway, for the hard of thinking, a good summary of the very scary scenarios versus the actual reality is here:
Also, this well researched lady from Glastonbury Council sums up perfectly the problems and where they stem from – all referenced with evidence from the appropriate sources. I’m sure as usual you will dismiss what she says as conspiracy stuff, but sadly what she says has basis in fact. Easy for you to go online and check out her claims if you like – so why don’t you?
Glastonbury town council meeting
So it seems from reading the last few pages that one side of the argument wants to censor and ban the other side on here. Irrationally labelling people they don’t agree with the usual non-original slurs of ‘deniers’ and ‘conspiracy theorist’ etc. Ask yourself, where does this language originate from? Yet history tells us that normally it is the people attempting to censor the opinions of others they don’t agree, who have the most to hide. I mean if you are not afraid to discuss rationally and with an open mind then why the need to censor? If you feel so confident in your own opinion and are not afraid at being found out, then why the need to censor?
I notice that Dazh in particular resorts to bad language every time his views are challenged. Firstly, perhaps ask yourself why? Not only does he seem like a rather angry little man, wound up tight like a coiled spring, and with a surprisingly short fuse (probably a short something else too). But also have you considered that perhaps his swearing is just a cover because he does not want his narrow minded view to be threatened. So he lashes out in frustration. Not a good look and totally unnecessary if your own argument holds water.
But hey ho, I’m off on holiday next week to Greece as it happens. I hear it’s warm there? Sounds perfect!
Good luck doomsters.
Sandy Adams? Really? REALLY?!
Do you honestly believe our or any other government (well, except perhaps China) has the nounce, the competence, the ability to keep secrets to the extent require for this smart city, digital ID, VR headset, drone delivery only, Carbon credit scenario she describes?
Good Lord, they couldn’t even make a working Covid App!
Thanks for the links, anyway. That’s genuinely put me in a good mood. Enjoy your holiday.
Do you honestly believe our or any other government (well, except perhaps China) has the nounce, the competence, the ability to keep secrets to the extent require for this smart city, digital ID, VR headset, drone delivery only, Carbon credit scenario she describes?
Carbon credits, Central Bank Digital Currencies (programmable) and Digital ID's are coming to the UK and Europe. Just a few years away now. But a simple Google would have told you that. I suggest perhaps you might look into it.
Suggest you also look into the Chinese Social Credit System, based around Digital ID's that now seemingly has many supporters here in the West.
Some of them are, and to different places at different time, but the issue isn’t the individual items, it’s the dot>dot picture you’ve drawn from their arrangement. Each of these has been developed for a specific purpose, they haven’t all be made for ONE specific purpose which is what you’re implying.
Name a single, large, government led project that has been developed and kept secret over the timeframes you’re describing in the modern media world? Even within large clandestine organisations subject to limited oversight, so many of them come to light through leaks.
Here’s a good source for counter arguments. Clue, 98% of scientists is a made up misrepresentation:
That’s really not a good source. The thing is that there are no counter arguments. This isn’t a debate or a theoretical scenario. It’s happening right now. You can deny it as much as you like. That doesn’t change anything.
@TJ is it too late to change my mind and join you?
I see another idiot has joined in last day just to post in this thread. And they have even brought Bill Gates into it now 🙂
I suppose we should try and help people with mental illnesses but not something I am very good at.
Isn't it ironic that holiday makers who flew to Greece are on the radio news saying how scared they were.
Which they probably were as big fires are very scary, and loud. Despite the fact that the heat thats caused the fires is from global warming caused by burning carbon fuel, of which air travel, which they used to get to Rhodes, is a contributing factor.
Just read the comments under that Sandy Adams YouTube video. Why do I never learn? How can people think our government are capable of hiding anything. They couldn’t even hide a Christmas party FFS.
Most of you seem to have outsourced your critical thinking to the Bill Gates funded Guardian.
Thats a new one! Somewhat divorced from reality
Thats a new one! Somewhat divorced from reality
Yet within seconds I have disproved you.
Errrmmmm - no you haven't. YO have just shown your ignorance.
the Bill Gates funded Guardian.
Yet within seconds I have disproved you.
a grant that equates to about 0.1% of annual 21/22 revenues of £255.8 million. ol' Bill really has his foot on the throat of guardian editor. My guess he probably doesn't know her name or even care.
@TJ is it too late to change my mind and join you?
Mentally or physically?
My flat is 30m or so above sea level - but the front door only 1m. It might get interesting
a grant that equates to about 0.1% of annual 21/22 revenues of £255.8 million. ol’ Bill really has his foot on the throat of guardian editor. My guess he probably doesn’t know her name or even care.
That is what he wants you to think
Bill gates, central bank digital currency, and BBC agenda all in the same post.
we really need a bingo card for this sort of thing.
Despite the fact that the heat thats caused the fires is from global warming caused by burning carbon fuel, of which air travel, which they used to get to Rhodes, is a contributing factor.
These fires are not caused by climate change. They will be caused by someone being careless rather than spontaneous combustion.
chrismac - but climate change is a major contributing factor in creating the conditions that led to the fires
Whilst climate change isn't the cause, the spark for the fires, it has quite considerably contributed to the available kindling.
can't start a fire, can't start a fire without a spark
I see another idiot has joined in last day
You mean the same idiot with yet another different user name?
you sanctimonious, champagne socialists
Thank you for bringing the left-right angle into the debate, I don't think it had been mentioned up until then. It is of course very important to remember that this is actually a political debate, not a scientific one.
Right-wing politicians, especially in the United States, are determined to maintain the huge wealth created by trashing the planet with little or no regards to the consequences.
Leftie do-gooders have had a profound effect on the tobacco industry by educating the public of the indisputable links between smoking and poor health, to the point where the tobacco market has shrunk so much in the West that to maintain their profit the industry has been forced to concentrate in the parts of the world where people are less educated.
The petroleum industry whose profits are even greater than that of the tobacco industry is determined to fight back against leftie do-gooders who are concerned about the health of the planet.
So yes, wealth, callous exploitation, and politics, is at the very heart of this debate, not so much science.
While the conspiracy theorists are scary in their own way (I mean, having so much faith in government that they can create such a scheme - imagine!), they aren't really the problem. There's only a few of them.
Scarier are the billions of people who accept all the evidence on climate change but then choose not to do anything about it. My in-laws (in the States, which is telling) say they're worried about their granddaughter's future, but drive a Land Rover everywhere, have a dog, are building a new house (and not using solar panels) and even have gas jets burning in lanterns on their gateposts. We're not going to get governments to do anything meaningful until it's too late but if scientists and campaigners win over all those people and make them change their lifestyles it'll help.
@alexroberts so I followed your link to the daily sceptic.
first assertation, it wasn't really 48degC in sardinia because *checks notes* the time&date website said it was only 35degC. then puts an image up of a heat record from the 12-17 jul, despite the record temperatures being recorded around the 24th July and the article being posted on the 25th july. If they had posted the correct image from their source it would have showed highs of 44 degrees for the broad location of 'Sardinia'.
so if that's what counts as 'doing your own research', I'm out...
In answer to the OP, none of us really know, what we do know it's only a decade or so to breaking point. Oh and regarding your sister buying a property in Dubai - she needs a stiff talking to.
Thanks to daffy and munrobiker (others too I forget their names) who have given proper information.
dazh - when do you propose we start killing off our old people? Aged 90 or maybe 80 or even 70? You do realise that many old people do an immense amount of childcare, volunteering and unpaid work.
As others I'm continuing to do as much as I possibly can, trying to gently educate others and look after nature and the natural world around us. Encourage others and let's hope that the very people moaning on the telly about their holiday being ruined in Greece start to realise that they could be 'part of the cause.'
So many people who don't give a toss, but many more that do.
A warm welcome to the forum Alex. Assuming you didn’t just join a bike forum to discuss climate change, what are your thoughts on tubeless tyres?
