[Closed] Christian knowledge regarding Easter sought.

[i]Easter is when it is because of the Passover and nothing else. It isn't in April because of a Pagan feast, even if there are eggs and bunnies at Easter. The Passover was established 3,000 years ago.[/i]

hmmmmm.

Jesus in the new testament "becomes" the Lamb slaughtered at Pascha. Hence the resurrection story being made at the end of Exodus celebrations. Bede gave a translation of The month of Eostre as Paschal Month as they both fell in April. Both the Pagan and Hebrew calendars were Lunisolar. It was noted even at the time that most cultures had a festival based in Spring, and celebrating new life. Some of those observations pre-date Jewish celebrations by several thousand years, There is archaeological evidence that most European cultures were well aware and traded with the peoples of the Levant and the Etruscans as long ago as 3800-4000BC.

Same festival, celebrated by more or less the same groups of folk going back well into prehistory.

you're a card woppit..

one minute you're all like 'yeah I'm earthy and that, I gob off at work all day long, being 'orrible to religious people' and the next you're offended by a punch in the face 😀

make yer mind up Gandalph

Junkyard - lazarus

Easter is when it is because of the Passover and nothing else.

No easter is where it is because this is the time that [christians believe] the Romans killed jesus.

They are totally different festivals and events that occurred a thousand years apart and celebrate/remember completely different things. The only thing they share is the date they celebrate NOT The reasons nor causes.

Easter is the only Christian feast designed to deliberately coincide with a Jewish feast. The reason it is when it is, is because it needs to fit in with the first Hebrew month, the time when the Passover was said to occur 3,000 years ago. If the first Hebrew month was in July then Easter would also be in July. The reason the date is variable around March/April is because the Jewish Calender, which is about 5,000 years old, is lunisolar and the months are lunar months.

But you carry on believing that it's all based on an Anglo-Saxon feast if that's important to you, I can see that your faith is strong 🙂

I gob off at work all day long, being 'orrible to religious people' and the next you're offended by a punch in the face

Nope. Never said that - you just claimed it.

You didn't punch me in the face. You threatened it on an internet forum and I didn't say I was offended. Your free interpretation of text is a wonder, though. This surprises me because I thought the thrust of your co-argumentatists was that doing this rather than in real four-dimensional space/time face to face, was a cowardly act.

*insert obligatory pot/kettle image of your choice*

no, no..

the thrust of my argument is that you often come across as quite a malicious little fellow who takes pleasure in taunting people about their beliefs, perhaps deriving even more pleasure from provoking an angry reaction..

some of the subtext is historical perhaps but I think you've proved the point 🙂

Religion is a philosophy, an ideology, and as such may be questioned, criticised and even mocked like any other ideology be it social, political or religious.
If we cannot criticise and mock, then we cannot speak of it at all. If we ( the questioners) cannot speak then it follows that you (the believer) cannot speak of it either.
So tear down your churches, close up your religious schools, take off your crosses and never speak of your faith outside your front door again.

The freedom to worship, the freedom to build your places of worship, the freedom to publically state your faith and attempt to reach converts are EXACTLY the same freedoms that allow us to question and mock your faith.
Its all or nothing, religious people dont get to decide what can be said and what cannot about religion.

Edit to my above post :

nickc - Member

Jesus in the new testament "becomes" the Lamb slaughtered at Pascha.

Exactly. The Last Supper was the Passover meal but instead of the lamb sacrifice JC was sacrificing himself. Good Friday is as important to Christians as Easter Sunday. Good Friday HAS to coincide with the Passover.

The freedom to worship, the freedom to build your places of worship, the freedom to publically state your faith and attempt to reach converts are EXACTLY the same freedoms that allow us to question and mock your faith.
Its all or nothing, religious people dont get to decide what can be said and what cannot about religion.

Quite

There are however different ways of putting a point across.

the thrust of my argument is that you often come across as quite a malicious little fellow who takes pleasure in taunting people about their beliefs, perhaps deriving even more pleasure from provoking an angry reaction..

some of the subtext is historical perhaps but I think you've proved the point

I have my own picture of you, of course.

Would you like an autographed one..? 🙂

I just wonder if you would be so brusque if you were questioning a Hindu family picnicking in a city centre park on a sunny afternoon, or a lone middle class Muslim lady in a busy airport in Sudan..?

JulianA - Member
Julian - not a very good Christian......

Don't worry.
I'm a very sloppy Pagan.
I didn't even sacrifice my own lunch yesterday.

I was mindful about the billions of years of natural evolution that had led to the perfection of gravy though.

That happy little sigh of contentment you give before sitting down for a meal with your family is universal, no matter what we believe.
🙂

Ernie, I get what you're saying now, You're saying that Easter "As a Christian Festival" is where it is [i]because[/i] of Passover. Yes Agree with you.

Spring festivals of renewal and based on lunisolar calenders are probably Mesolithic. Predating Pagan, and Abrahamic faiths by several millennia.

both are correct really.

This is probably an old-fashioned view....

Believers or non-believers of any stripe should have thought their arguments out to the extent that a good old-fashioned [i]debate[/i] is a possibility. This goes without saying I guess, but being able to defend a viewpoint from a well-considered stance is a must, and so is being able to accept alternative viewpoints.

However, as my old Mum used to say: mocking's catching.

Jeez a bit of religion an everyone gets fired up..

Some views are so obviously bonkers though, that mockery really is the only way forward.
Creationists are a case in point.

Believers or non-believers of any stripe should have thought their arguments out to the extent that a good old-fashioned debate is a possibility.

That would be nice, but it gets ruined when one side is more concerned about trying very hard to cause offence "because they can"

muddydwarf - Member
Some views are so obviously bonkers though, that mockery really is the only way forward.
Creationists are a case in point.

And unicyclists.

Oh definitely, dont want those heretical single wheelers around here!

Gradations of bonkery, huh?

Erm, I mean...

Believers or non-believers of any stripe should have thought their arguments out to the extent that a good old-fashioned debate is a possibility.

Actually no. And this is why I don't get involved in debating the "big questions" any more. Believers get to a point in the argument where faith is required to hold everything together, in the absence of proof. It is therefore not possible to debate the arguments without disappearing down two very separate roads (faith and the supernatural down one, science and the empirical down the other). You can only agree to disagree really.

Not in all cases...

http://clergyproject.org/

In nearly all cases I'd say. Those who turn away from religion do it because they come to that realization themselves. Not because some atheist converted them or they were sick of having the piss took. Both of those things tends to make their belief stronger.

[img] [/img]

I don't believe that. Or the number that do will be vanishingly small.
I don't think penguins get a mention in biblical texts.

you carry on believing that it's all based on an Anglo-Saxon feast if that's important to you,

What i have said is that this is untrue

Easter is when it is because of the Passover and nothing else.

The two happened at the same time a thousand years apart and easter is where it is because that was when [ they believe] Jesus was killed

OK you obviously don't know what you're talking about, which is fair enough I suppose - there's no reason why you should have any great insight into Christian feasts. Of course if you did you would know that the Last Supper was the Passover meal, and that's not a just coincidence it's actually vital to the plot.

Easter Sunday is just one day in what is termed Holy Week, also included in Holy Week are Maundy Thursday and Good Friday. The Last Supper and the Crucifixion are as important as Easter Sunday - the Last Supper/Passover Meal lays the whole foundation for Christian religious services, Holy Communion, often referred to as a sacrifice - the connection with Passover Meal/sacrifice is obvious.

The connection between Easter and the Jewish Passover feast is inseparable.

OK you obviously don't know what you're talking about

And you were moaning at THM for patronising folk 🙂

Well it wasn't meant as an insult but you can take it as one if you want.

You generally have a problem with people who disagree with you so I kind of expected you to.

EDIT : And btw if you didn't understand the connection between the Passover/the Last Supper/Easter, and that JC was a Jew who did Jewish stuff and was sometimes referred to as a rabbi by his followers, as you obviously didn't, then it sort of makes my point that you didn't know what you were talking about.

Can't you two get a room? I'm trying to get an answer to the original question.

I'm trying to get an answer to the original question.

Thegreatape gave you the answer in the second post of the thread.

ernie_lynch - Member
then it sort of makes my point that you didn't know what you were talking about.

Annoying when that happens isn't it (especially when followed up by the patronizing accusation) 😉

Impressive historical knowledge here Ernie (and you were probably teasing about Josephus). Done Pitt, so now for Passover story A level revision. Do you do revision notes ? 😉 let's see if the student's knowledge is as good now! Thank goodness for 2 hour run this morning, revision supervision gets tiring!

Well it wasn't meant as an insult

Who does not know Jesus was a Jew ? If only they covered the basics like this at University when one did theology. I thank you for your kind words not meant to be mean, patronising or insulting.

Chuckles at THM still doing this

(Tbc, this relates to another thread not this one)

Anyway belated Happy/Blessed Easter/pagan ritual/excuse for a bit of choccy to everyone.

Who does not know Jesus was a Jew ?

Well if you're smart enough to work that out how come you not smart enough to work out that Jewish rabbis do Jewish stuff like celebrate and organise Jewish feasts such as the Passover ?

That was meant as a patronizing insult btw 🙂

Stands corrected

Aye happy whatever you celebrate

FWIW i had passover Sedan with a Jewish family [ relatives] and I am now off for the Catholic version now with friends

Its interesting as I would never be this rude in the real world to people of faith - though my kids are excluded from RE at school.

In general you struggle to live up to hard moral standards

EDIT:I had not read ernies post when i replied but I have given up on any chance of anything other than piss taking with him ...not meant as an insult either 😉

Aye happy whatever you celebrate

Thanks, but I'm not actually Jewish. Although I am a carpenter as you noted.

In answer to the original question; in John's account of Jesus clearing the temple, Jesus says 'destroy this temple and I will rebuild it in three days.' John explains that after his death the disciples realise he was talking about himself. In Matthew and Mark's accounts of Jesus' trial, witnesses come forward to say they heard him day that. That's the only reference to three days in the Gospels.

I'd be interested to know for what nefarious purposes the Gospels and Epistles all heavily associate the Crucifixion with Passover?