So is everyone except you left wing, ninfan?
Ah, Zulu, any more on this?
ninfan - Member
So, stories coming out now that his car had been surrounded by antifa protesters attacking him and he was trying to get away. Unverified but seems like a realistic scenario. I assume that if confirmed the usuals will stop calling it murder or terrorism and instead condemn the protesters who attacked him?
Wondering where you found those reports...I'm sure we'd all love to see the source.
Left wing politics in a nutshell isn't it?
Well no, clearly not given that I'm "a leftie" yet here I am admonishing Junkyard, who I consider a friend, in your defence.
perhaps it's more [i]nuanced[/i]...?
No one suffers fools gladly like you Graham
Well there is that. 😀 but I think you learn very little from an echo chamber and the Internet is full of them.
This thread has gone down the pan; serious subject hijacked by insults and primary school playground attitudes.
Disappointingly, that's becoming increasingly common on 'serious' STW threads.
'Grown-up' attitudes anyone?
Wondering where you found those reports...I'm sure we'd all love to see the source.
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[quote=Tom_W1987 ]No offense Junkyard but you come across as a bit thin skinned.
Bloody vegan diet, isn't it. He needs to get some lard on him.
Thank you Mr Godwin.
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So is everyone except you left wing, ninfan?
I reckon everyone who thinks that people they disagree with or don't like shouldn't have the right to march, protest, speak or publish their views (with the caveat that what they say is not in itself an incitement to violence) is a fascist
I also reckon that anyone who thinks that the answer to people political views they don't like is to resort to violence (be that 'punch a nazi' or 'punch a leftie') is just as reprehensible.
What we have witnessed here, repeatedly, is double standards - constant justification of violence by the political left because 'nazis are bad, m'kay' (along with calling everyone they don't like a nazi) but shock and horror when the direct result of that is retaliation.
[quote=ninfan ]shock and horror when the direct result of that is retaliation.
Can I just check for clarification purposes, are you suggesting that Mr Fields was simply retaliating to violence from the political left?
the free speech thing is ostensibly a laudable democratic intention but feeling entitled to promote, even celebrate, organisations that have routinely implied or overtly threatened - and repeatedly perpetrated - individual and collective violence against non-white people is pushing your luck just a teeny bit
Similarly, I'm all for the right to demonstrate in support of a cause (with same caveats as above) but it's utterly inappropriate, even in the US, to do so while tooled up for WW3 - that's public intimidation, not demonstration
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Ninfan, I can think of only one thing to call a bunch of guys carrying swastika flags and giving Nazi salutes. Nazis. I think you might guess what I call people who sympathise with them?
I applaud anyone who fights Nazis, as they are a group who lost their right to freedom of speech and association by their historic actions (though as previously discussed, other violent groups on the left deserve the same treatment).
You have as much right as anyone to talk shit on an internet forum, and some of it is pretty despicable, so don't cry when people point out that you're defending some pretty reprehensible shit. Perhaps you might think a little deeper about some of the reactions to your posts, as most are not borne of a desire to censor you by lefty snowflakes, they are mostly pretty human reactions to some quite disturbing opinions and statements.
My aim is not to offend or censor you, or even to try to convince you that my worldview is better, but you don't seriously think that some of the shit you come out with should go unchallenged, just as the public assembly of those actual real life Nazis you're defending must always be challenged, for fear of letting our grandparents down if nothing else.
*I am not left wing, I'm an Environmentalist, Libertarian, Anarchist, Optimistic Nihilist. 😉
Similarly, I'm all for the right to demonstrate in support of a cause (with same caveats as above) but it's utterly inappropriate, even in the US, to do so while tooled up for WW3 - that's public intimidation, not demonstration
Really? Many feel that this protest was one of the most important events in the campaign for civil rights:
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[quote=aracer ]
ninfan » shock and horror when the direct result of that is retaliation.
Can I just check for clarification purposes, are you suggesting that Mr Fields was simply retaliating to violence from the political left?
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Armed because the far right might do something like drive a car into them Ninfan.
Have yet to see any lefties engaging in terrorism in the US - it's always right wingers. McVeigh etc etc - in fact there's been 150 right wing terrorist attacks or attempted attacks since 1993. There have been no incidents from the left since the end of the cold war - in the United States.
That is pretty ****ing damning of the right and makes you're own hysterical position, utterly baseless as usual Ninfan. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that whenever you offer an opinion - the right one is automatically the one opposed to yours.
@Aracer. No, HTH
Have yet to see any lefties engaging in terrorism in the US
http://time.com/4818165/steve-scalise-shooting-suspect-james-hodgkinson/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/man-shot-republican-steve-scalise-had-names-three-members-congress/
Go on, let me guess... wider left wing community can't be blamed for actions of one deranged individual, lone wolf attack, not representative of the wider, peace loving left wing community...
Ah, OK, so what is the retaliation you're referring to, and what does it have to do with this thread?
that particular protest, ninfan? (Seattle?) I dont think so
Can't deny that the BP (in the late 1960s - 50yrs ago) was a movement of significance that formed as a response to perceived (and hugely likely to be correctly so) violent, racist policing but that particular event (resulting in zero harm or arrests), nah. trifling
Ninfan won't be pleased were back to comparing him to Hitler again, were supposed to be past that phase and just calling him a dick or something.
I called him a **** but it got removed....
Ninfan won't be pleased were back to comparing him to Hitler again, were supposed to be past that phase and just calling him a dick or something.
A group fighting for the same rights as other citizens in their society or a group wanting to subjugate/oppress a group within their society.... Yeah, fair comparison. 🙄
The pictures may appear to be similar, but the story is not.
Suppose you think Mandela was a bad man, too.
I stand by my original post about ninfan.
that particular event (resulting in zero harm or arrests), nah. trifling
You appear to have forgotten your own comment
I'm all for the right to demonstrate in support of a cause (with same caveats as above) but it's utterly inappropriate, even in the US, to do so while tooled up for WW3 - that's public intimidation, not demonstration
Hoist on your own petard of double standards I'm afraid
A group fighting for the same rights as other citizens in their society or a group wanting to subjugate/oppress a group within their society.... Yeah, fair comparison
Again, free speech for the people you agree with, but not the others - you really don't get it do you?
A little light reading from another leftie:
ninfers, do you actually think you are putting forward reasonable points, or just good bait? 😆
To everyone else, why ye bothering?
No double standards here. You said "Many feel that this protest was one of the most important events in the campaign for civil rights" so I was disagreeing with "the many". I stand by that - that event was a non-event
On the point of being tooled up, yeah, I don't like it but as I said, it's the intimidatory nature that I specifically dislike (and I'd be far, far happier as a white man to have had to stand anywhere near those BP geezers than the white KKK'n'chums last week).
Go on, let me guess... wider left wing community can't be blamed for actions of one deranged individual, lone wolf attack, not representative of the wider, peace loving left wing community...
So what you're saying is that right wingers are still roughly [b]150 times[/b] more likely to go terroristy?
Great point Ninfan, you really succeeded in defending your position. Now, where are all these left wing terror cells and militia?
You're hilariously deluded - keep telling yourself that it is the left that is the enemy here.
Nothing hilarious about it - gives me major sad face. 🙁
Edit to clarify that ninfan's delusions are so obvious as to be not under discussion.
It's just another example of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome
You get these cases in all walks of life - I had to disocciate myself from a friend of over a decade because she Brexshitted, turned out to be an anti-vaxxer and claimed the confederate flag wasn't a symbol of hate because she read it in the Telegraph.
You can't reason with crazy.
Sorry, missed this thread when it started and have been catching up from the back - but without wanting to re-open this one, ISTM you lot missed a trick when responding to this (and further defences of it):
[quote=CaptainFlashheart ]Sounds like Corbyn on Venezuela.
Ah, so what you're suggesting here is that we should condemn politicians on many sides, on many sides?
Ah, so what you're suggesting here is that we should condemn politicians on many sides, on many sides?
Bigly.
teamhurtmore - MemberWhat an extraordinary obsession with ninfan on here
Not at all.
All nazi apologists will be called out. 🙂
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ninfan - Member"Unless you're Native American, you came from someplace else."
Hmm, sounds awfully like Bernard Manning doesn't it?
Not to me.
Sounds like an extremely concise way of pointing out one of the rank hypocrisies of the nazis in Charlottesville.
No idea what it sounds like to a nazi apologist, you tell me.
"They actually think they're English because they're born here. That means if a dog's born in a stable, it's a horse."
That's exactly what Obama didn't say in his speech. 😕
If you don't have sound I can type out the bit you've got completely wrong.
ninfan - MemberTheres not going to be many times that me and the ACLU get called the same thing on the same day, is there?
Correct.
Unfortunately it appears that you haven't really thought about what you've written or implied.
😆
ninfan - MemberI reckon everyone who thinks that people they disagree with or don't like shouldn't have the right to march, protest, speak or publish their views (with the caveat that what they say is not in itself an incitement to violence) is a fascist
So you [i]are[/i] condemning the nazis.
No need to be so quiet about it.
I also reckon that anyone who thinks that the answer to people political views they don't like is to resort to violence (be that 'punch a nazi' or 'punch a leftie') is just as reprehensible.
This doesn't make sense.
The murderer who drove his car into a crowd of people was also a nazi.
You're saying the nazi is just as bad as a nazi.
You're getting confused.
What we have witnessed here, repeatedly, is double standards - constant justification of violence by the political left because 'nazis are bad, m'kay' (along with calling everyone they don't like a nazi) but shock and horror when the direct result of that is retaliation.
Cite the violence committed against the murdering nazi or stop lying.
Your choice.
Calling people nazis who identify as nazis, hold similar views to nazis and carry the flag of nazis, et cetera is not unreasonable.
Nazis are actually bad, m'kay?
And one from earlier, because of the sheer, well...
ninfan - MemberSo this is the occasion where it's now OK to burden an entire community with collective responsibility for the 'lone wolf' actions of an individual and expect community leaders to condemn the actions and apologise on the communities behalf?
The community is nazis. They hold nazi beliefs. They're not a group who collectively like flower arranging. They want to eradicate people that are different to them and hold different beliefs. One of them achieved that.
If you're struggling to understand that then I have a great analogy though I fear it could beckon the 'hammer.
Insatiable even?
The community is nazis. They hold nazi beliefs. They're not a group who collectively like flower arranging. They want to eradicate people that are different to them and hold different beliefs. One of them achieved that
replace Nazi with Muslim.. you could even use quotes from the Koran to "prove" it
replace nazi with Muslim
Genuine lol.
Ok, I was hoping for 10 pages, but I think we're done here.
I think Ninfan should get himself a VPN and go for a wander through some UK and US far right websites and chat rooms.
If he can do that without the need to shower, then try some European and Russian ones.
The pure, visceral hatred makes your soul die, and they walk among us.
The community is nazis. They hold nazi beliefs. They're not a group who collectively like flower arranging. They want to eradicate people that are different to them and hold different beliefs. One of them achieved thatreplace Nazi with Muslim.. you could even use quotes from the Koran to "prove" it
Wow. Are you suggesting that being a Muslim is inherently bad, in the same way that being a Nazi is inherently bad? If so you need to learn the difference between 'a Muslim' and 'a Muslin terrorist extremist killer'. There is a big difference :roll:.
There is a relationship between American postal service workers and mad killing sprees (the phrase 'going postal'), but it would be pretty stupid to think all American post office workers are potential insane mass murders, don't you think?
Are you suggesting that being a Muslim is inherently bad, in the same way that being a Nazi is inherently bad?
I'm saying that once you begin to treat people differently on the basis of whom you perceive to be "inherently bad" or allow government to censor views, opinions, free speech or protest because you don't like what people are saying, or because it might upset somebody, then we're all ****ed
Nazis have as much right to speak, march and protest, as communists (or any other group) do, even though I profoundly disagree with both of them. Both should be able to do so without fear of being physically attacked by their opponents - it's not a difficult concept.
I'm saying that once you begin to treat people differently on the basis of whom you perceive to be "inherently bad" or allow government to censor views, opinions, free speech or protest because you don't like what people are saying, then we're all ****ed
To clarify, do YOU 'perceive' Muslims to be inherently bad in the same way that Nazi's are perceived to be inherently bad?
replace Nazi with Muslim.. you could even use quotes from the Koran to "prove" it
Nazis have as much right to speak, march and protest, as communists (or any other group) do, even though I profoundly disagree with both of them. Both should be able to do so without fear of being physically attacked by their opponents - it's not a difficult concept.
So you don't think the UK "incitement to racial hatred" law is a good thing when applied to Nazism?
Both should be able to do so without fear of being physically attacked by their opponents - it's not a difficult concept.
Sure, resorting to violence is not a good solution in any way, but ignoring Nazi's is even worse. Surely the only way to improve the situation (without violence or imprisonment) is to try and teach Nazis why their beliefs are inherently wrong. That won't happen by ignoring them.
To clarify, do YOU 'perceive' Muslims to be inherently bad in the same way that Nazi's are perceived to be inherently bad?
Which is worse, the Daleks or the Cybermen?
I perceive Muslims to be [b]as[/b] inherently bad as christians, Hindus, Jews and any other sky-fairy following religion.
In just the same way as I perceive Nazis to be as [i]inherently[/i] bad as Communists
So you don't think the UK "incitement to racial hatred" law is a good thing when applied to Nazism
To be honest, I don't support it in the slightest (when applied to any group, not just Nazi's), nor do I support the laws on incitement to religious hatred, in both cases I don't support them due to their chilling effect on free speech - as opposed to the laws prohibiting incitement to violence, which I support 100%
I don't know about you but I wouldn't be going protesting anywhere where there are loads of squirrel eating nutjobs wandering around with assault rifles
'Merica is mental!
Mind you, I suppose you could consider it a nod to multiculturalism that the killer then chose to use his car to kill people, which is a bit... you know... ISISy, instead of the more time honoured 'Merican tradition of going postal with a massive bag of guns
Or maybe he was being ironic?
Both should be able to do so without fear of being physically attacked by their opponents - it's not a difficult concept.
Remind us who was physically attacked by whom in this case.
I "perceive" Nazis to be "inherently bad" on account of the killing 6 million Jews thang. But hey, that's just me - judgemental.
