I’ve made a suggestion, you’ll note I didn’t delete your thread even though it breaks the rules.
So once again why not actually start a topic on the original post?
I remember the old Jamie he was funny.
Yeah Jamie, why don't you start a thread on the topic of the thread that was deleted instead of starting a thread inquiring politely as to why the previous thread was deleted? I'll tell you why, because you know that you'll be outed for the transmisogynist, shemale hating, Daily Mail reading, Brexit voting, cis gender, binary Nazi piece of privileged white male patriarchal scum you are!
I'll bet that you can't even admit that Caitlyn Jenner is fabulous and brave, but we all know that you absolutely would. Wouldn't you!!!?
I miss the funny pictures.
I miss the fun
Can I get - member opposite my name removed please? I feel that it misgenders me as I'm more...pangender and I don't want the toxicity of a euphemism for PENIS so close to my identity. If you can't comply with this it's a breach of my human rights and is in fact a violent assault.
How do you think I feel having subscriber next to mine?
I am not he, nor master, nor lord
No crown to wear, no cross to bear in stations
I am not he, nor shall be, warlord of nations
These heroes have run before me
Now dead upon the flesh piles, see?
Waiting for their promised resurrection, there is none
Nothing but the marker, crown or cross, in stone upon these graves
Promise of the ribbon was all it took
Where only the strap would leave it's mark upon these slaves
What flag to thrust into this flesh
Rag, bandage, mop in their flowing death
Taken aside, they were pointed a way, for god, queen and country
Now in silence they lie
They ran beside these masters, children of sorrow
As slaves to that trilogy they had no future
They believed in democracy, freedom of speech
Yet dead on the flesh piles
I hear no breath, I hear no hope, no whisper of faith
From those who have died for some others' privilege
Out from your palaces, princes and queens
Out from your churches, you clergy, you christs
I'll neither live nor die for your dreams
I'll make no subscription to your paradise
I'll make no subscription to your paradise
I'll make no subscription to your paradise
I'LL MAKE NO SUBSCRIPTION TO YOUR PARADISE
How do you think I feel having subscriber next to mine?
Deeply and profoundly embarrassed.
We should all be individuals.
"I'm not".
Anyway for what it's worth this old man thinks gender is far more complex than which sexual organs are on display (privately of course).
Can I get – member opposite my name removed please? I feel that it misgenders me as I’m more…pangender and I don’t want the toxicity of a euphemism for PENIS so close to my identity.
They’ve missed a trick: subscribers should be called gold members. This would more accurately reflect their P-ness status.
jez everybody knows by now in 2018 you don't have a say unless its fitting to the current policies and agenda. free speech died before 1980.
I miss the funny pictures.
I just didn't feel appreciated as a content creator.
However, being a human blackhole that sucks all the joy out of the room seems to be rewarded, so decided to go that route instead.
transmisogynist, shemale hating, Daily Mail reading, Brexit voting, cis gender, binary Nazi piece of privileged white male patriarchal scum!
That's what it says on my business card.
Been on a bender with a barmaid half my age, what did I miss?
You missed her setting up a STW login and creating quite a stir.
It’s not unusual for reporting to be limited during a trial, even if certain facts are public.
kcr, I realised too late that I had phrased my post badly, partly because I had initially found and posted the wrong link for the first article. The first article was published AFTER she had pleaded guilty, and the facts in question were then included in press reports by other media organisations, but not by the BBC. I remember reading that first article at the time and finding it very odd: why would an athlete make an extremely violent attack on a UK Atheletics official? When I then read another article from a different media source, it became clear not only why the attack had happened, but also that the BBC had very deliberately chosen to suppress the facts.
No doubt they were directed at a hypothetical person but when I read them I thought of someone on this forum. Someone I’ve never met but she seems like a thoroughly decent person , Someone who has never rubbed anyone on here up the wrong way. Someone who I deem the most punk rock on here.
I had no idea that she was a transexual until she herself mentioned it in a thread. It would be interesting to hear her views on this subject, since I understand that some transexuals who have spoken out about the issue are themselves against self ID, and reject what the so called trans activists stand for and are campaigning for. However, I could understand her keeping her head below the parapet on this issue, since a) she might want to avoid becoming 'defined' by this particular argument and reduced to being STW's resident token transexual and b) those transexuals who have spoken out against self ID etc. are being aggressively targeted by the trans activists.
One of the points that the OP made in her first post on the deleted thread, was that lesbians are being told by trans activists that they are transphobic if they refuse to have sex with a transwoman. Transwomen in this case means men who have not had gender reassignment surgery, but who 'self identify' as women, in particular as lesbian women - lesbian women who happen to have a penis. From what I understand, many lesbians are unhappy about this, but as a vulnerable minority themselves are finding themselves isolated because many others in their communities, e.g. the LBGT community, upon whom they would normally rely for support and solidarity, are supporting the trans activists.
For a transwoman to believe that a woman should have sex with them, even if she doesn't want to, sounds like a very male view. They might just as well go the whole hog and say that lesbians who won't have sex with them are frigid.
So with regard to zippykona's implicit point, I believe that there is at least one lesbian member of STW. Maybe she/they too are not unaffected by this issue, and maybe we should similarly be concerned about how this issue affects them. Again it would be interesting to hear their views on the issue, but I similarly suspect they too might understandably want to keep their head below the parapet.
Which brings us to the bizarre situation where we are now on STW, where only a bunch of mostly middle aged blokes without any direct interest in the issue - and to whom the whole thing seems crazy - feel able to discuss the subject without fear of being targeted and attacked on social media or elsewhere.
transmisogynist, shemale hating, Daily Mail reading, Brexit voting, cis gender, binary Nazi piece of privileged white male patriarchal scum!
I prefered the old days when we were just male chauvinist pigs. Rolls of the tongue better.
It's not just an issue of interest to ranting women; a number of trans women want to debate the proposed legislative changes too.
See eg Miranda Yardley and Debbie Hayton in The Times
It might come as a surprise to some on here that in any community, there are always some people with extreme views.
Of course there are some people who feel that those who identify differently to the gender they were assigned at birth are somehow “wrong” and shouldn’t be able to enjoy normal life. There are also those that take the other extreme. Frankly, it’s all a bit handbags at dawn, if you ask me.
The actual proposed changes in gender recognition will make absolutely no difference to anyone here. Trans people will continue to use the services of the gender they identify with as they have done for years and years, quite legally. Chances are, you’ll never even notice.
There are real problems faced by trans people, though. You might want to listen to Paris on QT the other night...
https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/976965765441011712
Oh - and I don’t even like punk 😉
Rachel
Oh – and I don’t even like punk
STW is under no obligation to provide a platform for you
But without you the place would ve ****ing empty
The actual proposed changes in gender recognition will make absolutely no difference to anyone here.
Unless anyone here's a biological woman. The proposed changes will remove the very limited exemptions under the Equality Act allowing spaces, services, roles and activities for biological women eg domestic violence refuges, single-sex hospital wards, rape crisis centres, women’s prisons, sport and statistics.
Oh – and I don’t even like punk 😉
Rachel
Jamie
🙂
The mumsnet feminism chat pages are dominated by this topic.
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights
dear god , that mumsnet is a scary place.
Yes, it's quite something alright.
There are real problems faced by trans people, though. You might want to listen to Paris on QT the other night…
I watched that, but the person speaking didn’t appear to say anything useful, other than dismiss the concerns of ‘women’.
Sorry, I missed this drama as I've been away for a couple of days.
I haven't read the post in question. I believe I know why it was deleted though, and it's nothing to do with "censorship" or any other conspiracy theory one might care to dream up. It was removed because as a user's first post on a mountain biking forum it appeared suspicious. We get people all the time signing up for a bit of free self-promotion or to further their own agenda, and they get removed also.
If it's a topic you wish to discuss, feel free to start a thread about it. I think I'm going to close this one shortly.
Sbob Member
Been on a bender with a barmaid half my age, what did I miss?
Cougar Subscriber
Sorry, I missed this drama as I’ve been away for a couple of days.
This is how rumours start.
f it’s a topic you wish to discuss, feel free to start a thread about it. I think I’m going to close this one shortly.
Why does the secret mod not just post a note saying as much? Using a generic mod account maybe?
You might have noticed the odd bit of grumbling about the forum’s direction recently, so surely anything that can be done to alleviate things is helpful?
For what it’s worth, the astroturfy nature had been raised in the thread, and OP answered it fairly it seems.
Bottom line, and I know I am pissing in the wind, if a thread has 20 replies and people have taken the time to engage then it would just be nice to explain why posts get nuked. Just seems bad manners otherwise.
May we have the old Jamie back please?
For what it’s worth, the astroturfy nature had been raised in the thread, and OP answered it fairly it seems.
By absolutely NOT being a Daily Mail journalist.
By absolutely NOT being a Daily Mail journalist.
If they’re undercover and you ask them are they a Journalist they have to tell you. I seen it on Bad Boys.
Been on a bender with a barmaid half my age,
We don't call people benders any more.
There are real problems faced by trans people, though. You might want to listen to Paris on QT the other night…
Freedom is hard won and easily lost.
Personally, I genuinely don't care if some people can't cope. Open minds benefit everyone.
Not fussed how people wish to identify. I know precisely one transexual woman, my ex boss, and she was a genuine inspiration.
Ex Parachute Regiment (really, the only tattoo she didn't have removed) - she'd still be a fantastic person however she identified and she taught me a hell of a lot about self belief.
I could not care less about which changing room someone uses or which nightclub bog they prefer.
Instead of the rest of us getting all judgy, how about we just ask trans people what they want, then do that?
Cake. Cake and a new bike, please 👍☺️
Rachel
Some people are easily pleased. ☺
Glad you're still here.
Well, I’d quite like it if nobody felt the need to shoot me for using the loo when I’m in Tennessee next month, too. Is that too much to ask, though??
how about we just ask trans people what they want, then do that?
Have you heard or read some of the shite coming from 'trans rights activists'? If you ask 10 different trans people what they want you could get 10 different answers ranging from nothing we are fine thanks right up to the jailling, raping and murdering of people who refuse to drink the kool-aid.
allthegear
Member
Cake. Cake and a new bike, please 👍☺
Rachel
Sounds reasonable, can’t argue with that. I’ve got half of a chocolate and coconut cake my g/f made, like a slice? 🙃
Aye, it’s almost as bad as the shite coming out of the mouths of paranoid parochial males
Instead of the rest of us getting all judgy, how about we just ask trans people what they want, then do that?
So if a sex offender with an escalating pattern of behaviour against women transitions while serving an indeterminate sentence and demands to be moved to a women's prison we should do that?
If self id was a threat to men's safety we'd be having a debate about it
Aye, it’s almost as bad as the shite coming out of the mouths of paranoid parochial males
So you're suggesting that what rene59 says is invalid?
Well, I’d quite like it if nobody felt the need to shoot me for using the loo when I’m in Tennessee next month, too. Is that too much to ask, though??
I'm pretty sure you'll be fine in a cubical, I'm not sure how they'll take to you trying to use a urinal in the gents though, maybe you should go for the half way house and piss in the sink? 😉
Aye, it’s almost as bad as the shite coming out of the mouths of paranoid parochial males
Overwhelmingly it's females asking questions or raising concerns, not males. Feel free to ignore them if you want. I'm sure they're used to it.
How about we treat 'them' just like we do everybody else?
Talk to people who are making a genuine difference, ignore the obvious cranks and just ask.
We do it all the time. It's how we progress. The sum of total human happiness versus what?
Have you heard or read some of the shite coming from ‘trans rights activists’?
Yes, some of it's bollocks isn't it?
But being an idiot isn't exclusive to any sector of humanity and when confronted by change, the media tends to justify itself by focusing on the negative and the extreme.
I like to see people being happy. No one has been hurt by the implementation of LGBT (you come up with something better) rights.
The sum total of human happiness has been increased.
How about we treat ‘them’ just like we do everybody else?
Talk to people who are making a genuine difference, ignore the obvious cranks and just ask.
We do it all the time. It’s how we progress. The sum of total human happiness versus what?
I like to see people being happy. No one has been hurt by the implementation of LGBT (you come up with something better) rights.
Sounds great. Now tell us how that's going to work when a woman (maybe your wife, mother, sister or daughter) goes to have an intimate medical examination, which she has requested be carried out by a female nurse (as is her right), and the nurse who enters the room is manifestly not a biological woman but a transwoman. Apparently the proposed new law would prevent a woman insisting that the nurse or doctor be a biological woman. As huckleberryfatt posted above:
The proposed changes will remove the very limited exemptions under the Equality Act allowing spaces, services, roles and activities for biological women eg domestic violence refuges, single-sex hospital wards, rape crisis centres, women’s prisons, sport and statistics.
Because it will be enshrined in law, it won't be possible to "ignore the obvious cranks" who demand admittance to those places. To refuse them would be a criminal offence.
Moreover, it seems there may be some even more serious issues involving young girls in schools etc. being required to accept boys who identify as girls in their shared changing rooms, showers and toilets etc. Instead of this ringing huge alarm bells, it seems that very often the official bodies overseeing the introduction of these changes are writing policies and guidance which teachers and others are required to implement, which require them to tell the girls that they must accept this. It seems that if the girls object, they are clearly transphobic and need to be re-educated.
Suggesting that people just need to get along and we will muddle through is naive. The implementation of LGB rights over the last 20+ years has generally involved a recognition that people have the right to live their lives and make their own choices about sexual preferences, without being discriminated against. No one suffered or lost out to make it possible for the members of the LGB community to have those rights. In contrast the rights being sought by trans activists now are at the expense of women and girls. Some of what is now being proposed involves women and girls being told they must accept the presence of biological males in places and circumstances where they may feel and be extremely vulnerable, and where historically woman and girls have always been able to expect and insist that there are no men for reasons of safety and privacy.
