The two can sort of balance each other out so instead of having a video you can have a step by step guide of what you want to do.
I'm either lucky or cursed, i get a full visual image AND an internal dialogue telling me whats going on. Recently spent a couple of hours trying to explain the circular nature of our next gen HMI and how we should crosslink between related pages without going up and then back down the structure. I was explaining it to the guy who designed the framework... Though i do come from a pure hardware background, and very complicated hardware at that!
my maths is poor.
Compared to my colleagues, mine is poor too. I made sure to get to a level where other people do the maths for me as soon as possible. (2 years)
I'm also terrible at languages (my own and others) and music, art stuff.
A good friend of mine has no internal dialogue AND no images either... Which i find weird.
As an illustrator, if someone gives me a brief then I sit and have a think about it for a bit and by the time I start the actual physical act of drawing it, I’ve already got a really clear picture in my head of exactly what it will look like when It’s finished, even if it’s quite abstract.
As a graphic designer I work with clients who can’t even visualise changing a typeface on something without you actually having to physically do it and show them
It baffles me as I visualise everything so clearly, but then I remember that I’m useless at anything else other than playing with crayons.
I can visualise things, but I think it's quite weak, it feels easily overpowered by actual visual stimulus, even if that's what you see when your eyes are closed in a dark room.
I have Aphantasia to, I can't really visualise things apart from (sometimes) fleeting parts of an image (and if I try and focus on that and make it into a complete image it just goes away)
I find it incredible and fascinating how differently we all think.
At risk of going off on a tangent, does anybody else have synethesia? In my head, letters and words all have different colours (totally useless, but it makes books look pretty). I assumed everyone else saw words like this and it wasn't until I was about 35 that I found that everyone I know sees black letters on a page instead.
Reading about it it's not uncommon and lots of musicians see colours when they hear music which helps them compose. Far more useful than me thinking the letter 'T' is a nice shade of blue!
I can sort of imagine things, but not clearly, and certainly not well enough to be able to ‘see’ an image ‘projected’ onto a piece of paper and draw it. I am good at technical drawing, I’m almost obsessive about accuracy, so when I was working in print and publishing it was a major benefit.
I’m fairly good at working out answers to issues with mechanical items, and I do have long internal monologues as well.
I have a terrible memory for names and languages, but I can recognise someone from years ago.
I wonder what an aphantasic would see or experience if given a psychedelic drug, feelings rather than images?
That’s an odd one, I was given a small lump of resin to chew because I wouldn’t smoke it mixed with tobacco, and I was looking through a big book on the works of Gaudi in Barcelona, and I was seeing extraordinary things in some of the photos, one of the ceramic covered walls in Parc Guell became a picture of an African savanna with one of those flat-topped acacia trees with some giraffes, and a Masai warrior in the foreground holding a spear! I can still see it now, nearly forty years later. Go figure, as they say. *shrugs*
I think some of you need to read 'born on a blue day'
Its proper weird how the brain works. My other word mental trick which if its related to the Aphantasia I have no idea is that i'm a REALLY fast reader, like twice/three times faster than pretty much anyone I have ever met. Was a issue at school especially when we did group or class reading and the teachers were convinced I wasn't reading at all.
The clients binners mentions who wouldnt be able to visualise a new typeface. That would 100% be me. Unless I can actually see it in front of me it might as well just be guesswork.
I can see things in my mind, not brilliantly, can just about memorise a map and read it in my head for a short bike ride.
I wonder what an aphantasic would see or experience if given a psychedelic drug, feelings rather than images?
They can still see out of their eyes so I suspect the visual experience would be broadly similar. I assume the psychedelic would alter their thoughts in the same way as a hyperphantasic would experience, but it wouldn't alter the images in their mind because there might not be any.
Aspie. nuff said.
Though I'm kind of shocked that people cant see objects in 3D
What about very very long term memory ? as in can you picture a room in a house or street from 40 whatever years back and then navigate around it ?
So many can think pics in 3D. but what about 4D
It seems from the apple test that I'm borderline aphantastic. It explains a few things.
I find it extremely hard to picture landscapes and other physical things described in books which is frustrating.
What about very very long term memory ? as in can you picture a room in a house or street from 40 whatever years back and then navigate around it ?
But I have a very strong memory for things like this. I don't need to close my eyes to do it at all.
I cannot see things in my head, even faces of people I know really well - they just don't appear although I'll recognise them the instant I see them. I'm an architectural technician, if someone rings up from site and tries to explain a problem they are having I just wont be able to see it. I need a photo or even better a site visit.
I struggle with driving in unfamiliar places unless I have sat nav running as I can only recall one or maybe two direction steps from a printed guide or a map. Even if someone asks me directions to somewhere I know really well I'll have to concentrate really hard to visualise the route in my head. I'd usually have to travel through it step by step with my eyes shut until I get where they want to go!
Blimey I sound like a right disaster!
That apple test... Like can people really properly 'see' the apple? That's mind blowing to me really. I think my inner monologue is pretty much yeah its an apple, trust me..... but nowt visual in the slightest.
The long term memory is weird. I couldnt picture anything about where I grew up but I could write down a description and I can still find my way around the woods I grew up in pretty much without trying.
I can only recall one or maybe two direction steps from a printed guide or a map.
I almost used an entire phone battery yesterday trying to use Trailforks riding in unfamiliar territory. I was constantly checking the directions I couldn't memorise.
Yes, I've done that as well!
I find this fascinating
No, in short - I can't disassemble or deconstruct or indeed construct things in my head and I struggle with number sequences also as in I forget where I 'got to' if I'm doing mental arithmetic
I can see things that I'm familiar with though so very strong memories I guess, and I can recollect from a very early age and replay moments, so feelings, sights, sometimes smell and what was said (I have memories from my 1st birthday)
As for internal dialogue, it's not so much a dialogue but a conversation but two way, bit devils advocate kind of thing like I'm talking to someone else (you, not I) - think this comes from when I used to run through what lessons I'd have on a given day (what are you doing today, I have maths, English etc...) that does feel weird and I've always been pretty sure it's just me...
I can't see things in my mind, I just get a vague understanding (and I think that that's just black & white, I can't visualise colour either). On the apple test I'm a 4-5.
I've struggled with mental health conditions all my life and assumed that it was just another aspect of a dysfunctional (and medicated) mind. I also have a shockingly bad memory and ability to retain things (although I'm not unintelligent & quite a deep thinker I simply don't retain facts).
I was shocked to learn that some people don’t think in words! Like my entire thought process is basically a narration.
My thought processes are almost totally verbal to the point of not being able to quieten it down (some of my mind's quietest times are when I'm out on my bike).
Yes, always been able to do it as you describe. I also can take flat images at different angles and translate those into 3-D ‘images’ in my head.
Me too. My ‘minds eye’ is like a CAD programme..I can rotate, zoom, and explode technical drawings in my mind.
I can also ‘mock up’ 3d models, and ‘test them out’ in my mind too.
Like many, however, I’m rubbish with other languages, and can’t draw or do music!
DrP
I almost used an entire phone battery yesterday trying to use Trailforks riding in unfamiliar territory. I was constantly checking the directions I couldn’t memorise.
That's a skill that comes and goes if you work on it (or don't!).
I used to have a reasonably photographic memory for maps. Not completely but I always had a very good sense of direction. I spent years as a kid in the front seat of the car doing map reading for my Mum as she drove us on holidays (remember map reading...?!) and then in teenage / early 20's doing route plotting on OS maps. I love maps. Used to be able to name about 200 of the London tube stations on a blank map and I've done blank street maps, filling in the street names. London especially. Years of commuting and couriering in London in the 90's.
That skill is definitely far less refined now that I rely on Google Maps, a Garmin GPS cycle computer and tools like Strava. It's very much a use-it-or-lose-it thing. Or it is for me at least. I'm still not bad at navigating by stars although the second I don't recognise something, I just reach for Google SkyMap rather than try and work it out.
I remember being in the cadets at school on night nav exercises (way before GPS / smartphones etc) and just knowing the way immediately and being constantly frustrated by other kids who were barely able to find their arse with both hands.
I think some of you need to read ‘born on a blue day’
Brains are weird. For me numbers also have shapes 🙂
is that i’m a REALLY fast reader, like twice/three times faster than pretty much anyone I have ever met.
Me too. I can read a light novel at 100+ pages an hour. Couple of hours to read a book. I have a visual memory so I don't think the two are linked
I can’t visualise things in my mind at all and don’t have much in the way of memories of events or places. No issues hallucinating when younger though but my eyes were open at the time. I’m also good at remembering facts, figures, lyrics and useless information. Love reading but don’t really visualise what I’m reading. Just like a good story.
I have a visual memory so I don’t think the two are linked
Do you spell by the letters or the shape of the word? If you asked me to spell something I would need to picture the word and work out the letters that fit the shape.
Interesting thread! I teach undergraduate chemistry, where most representations of molecules (in textbooks, research papers, written on whiteboards etc) are in 2D, even though they are 3D objects. In many cases the 2D representation is sufficient, but where it becomes important to relate the written 2D structure to the actual 3D shape of a molecule, I’d say that around 20-30% (an estimate from my experience of small group teaching) find this process really challenging. We encourage the use of model kits to help with this problem (and they are still allowed in some of our exams).
I am very poor at spelling and often have to see it written to know if the spelling is right or wrong. I think I see letters not shapes for words tho
That’s a skill that comes and goes if you work on it (or don’t!).
I used to have a reasonably photographic memory for maps. Not completely but I always had a very good sense of direction. I spent years as a kid in the front seat of the car doing map reading for my Mum as she drove us on holidays (remember map reading…?!)
I did night rally navigation in my 20s. Quite high pressure, but I enjoyed that. The thing is you're looking at the map constantly so it's easy.
another similar one. Do you know where north is? I have to or I get all twitchy and most of the time I do. I find it incomprehensible that people do not do this or know which way is north
No idea where north is. I’d love to be able to visualise stuff in the way some of you describe. It sounds great.
I'd like to be able to spell and i would love a little artistic ability. You dont get everything. Some. of these things seem almost mutually exclusive. One is that if you can do mental arithmetic you cannot tell left from right instinctively. About a 90 % correlation I believe.
Brains are weird
I’d like to be able to spell and i would love a little artistic ability. You dont get everything. Some. of these things seem almost mutually exclusive. One is that if you can do mental arithmetic you cannot tell left from right instinctively. About a 90 % correlation I believe.
You. Are. Chrisopher, walken. And...
..I claim? my. £5.
Edit:
But too be fair, I have to edit my posts 9 times out of ten for spelling/punctuation errors...it's not that I can't spell, it's that I try to rush my typing and have to go back and correct it. I can't seem to just slow down and type properly in the first place.
.
I did the Apple test - a big fat 5…..
Do you know where north is? I have to or I get all twitchy and most of the time I do. I find it incomprehensible that people do not do this or know which way is north
Always. Can find it in seconds by half a dozen different methods, day or night.
The one time I got confused was when I was in Australia where obviously the sun is not in the south at midday, it's in the ****ing north like a devious little ****.
Went wrong once. Was thoroughly mortified by this error.
I can visualise stuff pretty/very well, I can spell pretty well too, as I can 'see' if the word looks correct. However, as I've got older, that skill seems to have faded a little.
The big thing, I've found is that my visualising bit of my brain must use lots of (or increasingly more) Brain CPU - to the point that if I'm driving, I have to avoid any conversation that would involve thinking about 3D space - like 'Hey, do you think we should move the wardrobe into the other corner?' would bring up such a very image of the room in question that I'd find I no longer had brain space to look at the road. Like when people in films look up and have cartoon bubble images of thoughts. So we now have a 'No 3D space conversations in the car (or on the bike)' rule...
As for finding north, TJ, I've always known vaguely where north was in houses I've lived in. However, I only recently worked out the whole arc of things rotating around the pole star thing. Like if I saw the moon or a constellation overhead, even if I could see the pole star, I could never tell you where it would set... (I've worked it out now...)
I just instinctively know where north is - I remain orientated most the time - when occasionally I lose it then I have to find it again or I get twitchy. Presumably i am taking clues from things but its not conscious - its just " north is that way"
I can visualise stuff in my head, it's how I do most practical parts of my life considering my job is analytical. Good on manual DIY around home and fixing cars and bikes.
But when an IT implementation Team come in I call bollix. Full of shoot or on drugs.
But when an IT implementation Team come in I call bollix. Full of shoot or on drugs.
One has to be on drugs in order to put up with project managers without strangling them!!
I actually had to think for about 10 seconds to figure which way north is, sat in my house, lol!
Which is strange as I have really good situational awareness with closer things, like I can immediatley visualise how to get from my house to another town or city, like i've got a built in GPS, my brain just doesn't know which way north is automatically.
my brain just doesn’t know which way north is automatically.
I am the same. I generally know where I am but wouldnt be able to say which way is north. I can find it if I need to but it would still be northish.
Only time I would really pay attention to that would have been doing precise navigation (something sadly I have mostly forgotten now) and that would be with map and compass to find north vs northish give or take a bit.
In a similar vein to quick reading, I can process a lot of information at once. I can be active in one conversation, listening along to another, sometimes even following a third, and then be picking up on other sources of information going on e.g., a TV in the background, where the waiter is, what is that person doing over there?
I'm on the fuzzy edge of the autism spectrum so it's probably linked to that.
It can go wrong if there's something annoying me as that takes all my focus. I've had gigs spoiled because of someone singing behind me that I can't unhear
My partner can't comprehend how I do it, she can only focus on one thing at a time
I've been able to do a full 3D visualisation of stuff in my head every since I was 11 or so, exactly like basic 3D computer modelling. I instinctively know where things line up on opposite sides and can visualize stuff from technical drawings easily. I can also 'see' how mechanical stuff works in motion, hard to explain but it's like I build the machine in my head then run an animation. My spacial awareness is very good too, have done tests for it and came out in the top tier.
I also have an internal monologue going all the time, it's like an internal friend! But then I do have a history of bipolar in the family so could just be that.
Can't play any instruments, crap at maths and socially inept.
Undecided on whether that's a good mix to have or not!
Interesting I enjoyed that BBC podcast. I do sort of see things in my minds eye, but would say I have to concentrate a bit to really 'see' details. I probably wouldn't have described it as all visual and it definitely not like closing my eyes and seeing something as it's on the telly.
I guess it must be visual though as when I read a book I do have a sense of what the characters and landscapes look like to me, and it can be ruined when a film or series of the book is made! I did daydream a lot as a kid too.
I wonder if some people hate reading because they can't visualise the world within the book. I do read too quickly imo, because often after reading a book I can give a general overview but don't remember specifics ( means I can go back and enjoy it again though).
I can do navigation in the countryside, I get turned around in cities. I can mostly align any cardinal point on the compass, although I'm not 100% reliable, often I think I'm going the wrong/right way, but sometimes its best to check. Moderately fast reader.
On the apple test it told me that I'm a hyper visualiser, although obvs its a test on t'internet, so mleh.
