[Closed] Can I be forced to use the pool car?

I do approx. 200 miles per year for work. Still have to have business insurance.

If i was picking up lunch for a colleague i wouldn't need it, but then it wouldn't be something i could claim mileage for either

There is a big difference (legally) between:

"visiting the post office for the boss, posting packages to clients"

and

"visiting the post office for the boss, posting a personal letter once a week, and collecting some lunch for a workmate and yourself"

1 is regarded as "business use", 2 is regarded as "personal use"

Last month she did 31 miles in 20 days of work. The vast majority of this is going to the local post office or picking up lunch for other staff.

Doesn't matter, if you do ANY mileage at all for the company in your own car it needs to be insured for business purposes.

Even if it's only 2 miles to the post office, you can still have an accident and when the insurance company find out that she'd "just nipped out" on company business, they'll refuse to pay out.

My workplace is really hot on this kind of thing, we have to supply insurance paperwork, copy of driving licence etc every year.

If she is claiming miles for it then its work and she needs business insurance.

If its not work then she shouldn't be claiming miles for it. Can't have it both ways.

In scenario 2 you wouldn't expect to be paid mileage though. Paid mileage=business use

There is a big difference (legally) between:

D0NK - Member

There is a big difference (legally) between:
doing work business
and
doing work business with some personal stuff aswell?

That's how I read it too. She's been paid since they cancelled the daily post office pick up. Last 9 months has been fine with expenses etc...I think someone in HR just wanted something to do this morning.

almightydutch - Member
Surfer, you're not 5'2" are you?
POSTED 35 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Cars get bigger as people get smaller?

A long time ago so may not be relevant any more.

I got picked up by this chap in a company car, and Astra I think. We then drove about 600 miles in total with him (he wouldn't let me drive) screaming the nuts off it, spinning the wheels everywhere, hitting kerbs, tailgating, going backwards at 30mph+, doing well over a ton forwards, etc etc. He even hit a wall once. His justification? Company car innit.

It was only when we returned to the office and he dropped it off at the pool that I found out *he'd just taken the car*!!! The pool car guys were wondering where it was so we weren't even insured for it.

The car looked really sad when we left it.

If she's being paid mileage then she needs business insurance. Just like others above have already said.

All relative, isn't it. It's not in comparison to, say, a double-decker bus or a Boeing 7474, but it's huge compared to a Leon.

No I'm not 5"2 but lots of people are and I see them driving vehicles of various sizes. I dont think your height necessarily dictates the maximum vehicle size that you can drive.

My #2 example above was implying she could not claim for mileage, just doing her boss a nice favour, without expecting to get paid for it.

Occasionally I will drop a business letter in a postbox on my cycle home.

I think someone in HR just wanted something to do this morning.

by looking out for your wife and ensuring that she is properly covered in the event of a mishap whilst working?

They are doing the right (legal, business and moral) thing by her. Get over it.

"No I'm not 5"2 but lots of people are and I see them driving vehicles of various sizes. I dont think your height necessarily dictates the maximum vehicle size that you can drive. "

this - my mothers 5ft and often although not her job ends up driving double decker and bendy busses between depots.

How ever i can empithise with your wife in the whole E class thing - to drive it does feel a very very wide car. Id sooner drive a transit down a narrow road than my parents E coupe.

I think your wife needs to get a grip and drive the pool car, loads of small petite women drive huge 4x4 and other big cars.

Sorry to be blunt but if she is not a confident driver maybe she needs extra training to boost her confidence and ability? Is she a new driver and lacking the miles under her belt to be confident ?

Don't get me wrong about the mrs, she could benefit from a 'get over yourself' slap frequently...although rather you than me try that.

I don't think she'd have an issue with training...if her work paid for it but that's not gonna happen. Why should she have to pay?
The arguments about size of vehicle are almost fair enough but Trail rat hit the nail on the head. Its not the size of the vehicle that's the issue, its the perceived size when inside the car.

TooTall - Member

I think someone in HR just wanted something to do this morning.

by looking out for your wife and ensuring that she is properly covered in the event of a mishap whilst working?

They are doing the right (legal, business and moral) thing by her. Get over it.

Why should she have to pay?

Because she needs something to boost her confidence and ability, no? Are you happy with her driving around all nervously? Doesn't seem very safe to me.

Really, this is unrelated to the work issue. She doesn't need training because she's driving a bigger car, she needs training because she's driving.

"almightydutch - Member
Don't get me wrong about the mrs, she could benefit from a 'get over yourself' slap frequently...although rather you than me try that."

Is she still reading this thread?

flippinheckler - Member
I think your wife needs to get a grip and drive the pool car, loads of small petite women drive huge 4x4 and other big cars.

Most of the people I've seen driving huge 4x4s and other big cars dont have a clue how wide their vehicle is, or where reverse gear is.

Funny how in the last 9 months they haven't cared about this

Funny how it took them 9 months to realise that

a) one of their employees was driving round on company business without the correct insurance

b) one of their employees has been claiming mileage for personal miles
(delete as appropriate)

Strangely my wifes gran was only 5' but hated small cars, her fave was a Merc 300 despite only just seeing over the dash!!

On the claiming mileage thing IIRC the only loophole for business insurance is if like me you get called out into work out of hours?

I'll maybe suggest using it at the weekends so then we can burn the company fuel for our own pleasure.

only if you want to be taxed on it..

No, it's still a pool car, just gets disproportionate use by one person.

Last month she did 31 miles in 20 days of work. The vast majority of this is going to the local post office or picking up lunch for other staff.
So if you pick up a lunch for your workmate then you require business class insurance? Do me a favour!
Pizza delivery drivers are a wee bit different aren't they, they are actively working from their vehicle...hence needing business insurance.

That's why they ask you what your job is and how many miles you do. Mine added about £8 to the policy. I imagine pizza delivery mopeds must be borderline uninsurable.

I expect most of us to get headhunted by large legal firms by the morning.

Once she drives a proper car she'll love it. This could get expensive

Deserves some consideration that!

...and the issue about insurance is not necessarily for you good lady, or the third party, but the limitation of the firm getting their buttocks sued off as she is undertaking their bidding....which I believe is the employer indemnity clause mentioned earlier. By me. 'cos I'm always right*

*not proven.

Last month she did 31 miles in 20 days of work. The vast majority of this is going to the local post office or picking up lunch for other staff.
So if you pick up a lunch for your workmate then you require business class insurance? Do me a favour!
Pizza delivery drivers are a wee bit different aren't they, they are actively working from their vehicle...hence needing business insurance.

My employer won't pay mileage for getting to courses or visiting other colleges, unless you've proven you have business use included in your insurance. It became a 'thing' a year or two ago.

Same for my wife's employer. It cost nothing for her to add it.

I'll have words with her when I get back. A few points for me to raise with her. Starting off with its only a car you silly bint (nothing like setting the mood straightaway)
Along with a few other suggestions and thank you all for those.

She's confident enough in her own car but struggles to be confident immediately in a 'new' car. In fact she drives like an arse sometimes but heyho we wont go down that route with all the '31mph is breaking the law types on here'
Davidtaylforth is bang on, yes you do see lots and lots of petite women driving around in Chelsea tractors....and YES they have no clue how big/wide/where reverse is etc.
For her, the Seat Leon (2009 1.9TDI) is a proper car, its certainly an upgrade from the 12 year old Golf she was driving and the 8 year old Corsa before that.

Seems like someone in HR did a course recently and realised the potential for financial penalties to the employer.

Its a shame to loose 45p a mile though isn't it!

Seems like someone in HR did a course recently and realised the potential for financial penalties to the employer.

It's the liability they're potentially picking up that they're worried about - if you extrapolate it a bit then you're really going down the route that if you're traveling on company business and, despite them retiring you to have suitable transport, you are injured in an accident then they can be liable and add such might have to pay under an employers' liability type claim.

As people have said, it doesn't matter that the journey is short. If she doesn't have cover she's breaking the law. Technically, even if she doesn't even divert off her route home to drop the banking off, it's still business use and needs at least Class 1.

MrOvershoot - that's commuting. As long as it's to and from your usual place of work.

As with all this stuff, speak to your insurer if you're not sure as interpretations vary. If you've bought the cheapest possible policy, good luck with finding clear answers and getting your claim paid...

Rich_s
Your friendly insurer 😉

I guessed it was as our usual place of work!

Great fun already 🙂

The extra training comments really mean a more advanced driving course of the kind normally provided by employers. They are very good and a lot more people could do with going on them.

Insurance, if your company has an ounce of common sense then they should have a copy of the license for everyone, insurance & MOT cert for any vehicle that people are using for business. The employer has a duty of care in that respect to check these things. No business insurance no use of your own car. Having never paid more than a few quid it's worth having for the day you actually use it. Your car may be insured but not for what you are doing in it.

If there is a car paid for and sitting there then that should be used first. Simple economy there.

In companies if you make a rule - stick to the rule. As soon as Mrs whoever can drive her car not the pool car then everyone else has an excuse. For a few people mileage is a nice little earner.

If she is claiming miles for it then its work and she needs business insurance.

If its not work then she shouldn't be claiming miles for it. Can't have it both ways.

Spot on..

Why on earth would you risk you're own insurance for about £13 a month.

Man up and drive the Merc woman.

Funny how in the last 9 months they haven't cared about this

Perhaps they were also ignorant of the law. As you were until you raised it on a cycling forum. It happens you know.

I suspect the biggest issue for the company is corporate manslaughter. If your wife was to have an accident with a fatality and there was any fault with the car or incorrect insurance the company can face an unlimited fine.

We have some employees who use their own vehicle and they must provide copies of MOT, service records and evidence of regular fluid and tyre depth checks before they can use for company business.

Chris

We've had a good chat and she is going to call her insurance and get the least amount of business cover she can get.
Although further on from this, the question was asked yesterday what happens if the pool car isn't available....the answer she got was 'Use your own car'
So all of this and she still gets told to use her own. Minimal business cover will be added by end of day. Still effing barmy!!!!

So all of this and she still gets told to use her own. Minimal business cover will be added by end of day. Still effing barmy!!!!