[Closed] British and Irish Lions

for me tighthead is between Jones and Murry with Vickery on the bench as he covers both sides. AW Jones will be unlucky not to get a spot as he's been the standout lock. Croft, wallace Heaslip or maybe have Williams for Wallace. Jones is better than ROG, Bowe on one wing and I'd have Shane still, if not I think Fitzgerald.

One things for sure,the boks r going to run up a cricket score next weekend.Its been a while since ive seen such an average team.Ponderous forwards, backs that simply lack skill,wooden first fives.The only team with less appeal is the All Blacks.

I think TJ has it close

AA - Agree on the prop question. Vickery on the bench due to cover. Murray to get the nod over Jones though. Murray's scrummaging is scary! S.H. refs may not allow that to be used to full potential so that may influence selection?

Lock too tight to call. POC only in as he is captain Shaw/Hines/O'Callahan all playing better

Jones ahead of ROG with Hook on the bench as a game changer?

Kearney will be very unlucky not to play. He has been immense. However Byrne is truly world class and is (just) ahead. Maybe he will be on the other wing as Bowe must be a certainty.

Back Row will be about balance. Heaslip is surely the no.8. Then I think Croft / Wallace. However will be a travesty if Williams is not playing. Unlilkey to be him and Croft together though. Nice issue for Geech to figure out

will be a travesty if Williams is not playing. Unlilkey to be him and Croft together though.

Bring out Worzell, I just know its going to happen, they'll do it just to annoy me!!

Shandy - Member

IdleJon thinks Monye lacks pace - his PB for the hundred is 10.6 seconds

I thought I said that he hasn't shown any pace on [i]this[/i] tour - can't be bothered to check back though. Anyway 100m records are almot completely irrelevant in rugby as has been pointed out.

TandemJeremy - Member
I think we can make a fair stab at the test team now

1- Jenkins
2 - Mears
3 - Murray / vickery
4 - Poc
5 - O'callohan / Hines
Back row - williams / croft / dunno but not Worzle ( I can never sort out who plays where Heaslip? Wallace???
9 Philips
10 Jones / Rog
wingers - Bowe ???? Moyne ( unless kearney can play there)
Bod and Roberts in the centre
15 -Byrne

You've named 2/3rds of the squad, so you might be right TJ. 🙂

1 - Sheridan [i]updated-Jenkins[/i]
2 - Mears
3 - Murray
4 - POC
5 - AWJ
6 - Croft
7 - M Williams If fit
8 - Ferris
9 - Philips
10 - Jones
11 - Moyne
12 - Roberts
13 - Bod
14 - Bowe

I had to laugh at the Wales on Sunday headline (Hook saves Lions again).
Fair enough he scored a place kick but he only played 14 minutes of rugby!

AA, I can't beleive you've not mentioned Williams, I thought he had a very good game indeed. I still don't think Monye has any real competition as he's still playing better than SW.

Yeah williams was good, but I've never see him repeat that sort of display against the very best teams, he needs a really rucking tackling workaholic at 6 which Croft isnt.

I'd pick Shane Williams over Monye as at his best he is sooooo good and even when not playing to his best he's better than Monye who I dont think will worry the Boks at all and they'll target him with kicks. Shane can kick return well. Monye's kicking was poor no accuracy on up and unders which were either too long or too short and the first opportunity he got (with his second touch) to take on his opposite number on the outside he chipped the ball straight into the defenders arms. Fitzgerald and Monye have scored tries but none were that great and all of them an out of form Shane could have scored. Big matches need big game players.

It's like banging your head against a wall. HE'S NOT ON FORM!!
He has done eff all on this tour to be selected for the tests - he doesn't deserve a test spot and it would be a travesty if he got one.
Croft isn't the player you have described [i]but I know who is[/i]
Worsle....eeek <runs away>

Not worzle :bang head:

he is simply too slow around the park

TandemJeremy - Member
I think we can make a fair stab at the test team now

3 - Murray / vickery

Are you quite, quite mad? Murray is epic, Vickery is an old man past his prime.

That / has no place there, nor does Vickery. Murray's cameo yesterday was simply awesome in the technical ability shown. Two penalties came very quickly as a result of his brilliance alone!

Worsley is rubbish. God help us if he makes the team. The only consolation will be that somewhere James Haskell will be sitting down and taking a long hard look at himself.

Shane Williams has been rubbish all season and doesn't have the all-round game to justify selection. JP Pietersen will be all over him in the air if he is selected.

O'Connell deserves a place on merit. All this "just because he is captain" talk is garbage stirred up by that imbecile Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times and swallowed by casual observers across the country. In any case, this is the bet motivated Lions squad since the last South African tour so perhaps he is doing a good job.

IdleJon what you said was that Monye is slow, which is obvious nonsense. All I did was point out that he is not. Trying to make out that Monye is some kind of Nigel Walker/Tom Varndell character is daft, he is an out and out finisher. Thanks to whoever pointed out that you need to ground the ball over the line to score a try, never forget the basics.

So we have 2 back row players who are rubbish. That's just brilliant that is. I hope to f*** no one gets injured as I'd rather watch a plague of locusts descend on the earth than Powells' attempt at rugby.
I do love rugby nicknames though, "nugget" is a good one and "melonhead" for worsley is a cracker too.

CFH - I tend to agree with you. trying to be more than fair

If I was actually picking the team there wouldn't be an Englishman in it. - not from bias but because I don't think any are good enough - Croft perhaps????

I'd rather watch a plague of locusts descend on the earth than Powells' attempt at rugby.

Now if I can admit that worsley played quite well on sunday I'm sure you can do the same for Powell, it doesnt hurt..... much.

I'd still pick Shane williams at 11 as Monye will be turned with kicks and then boot the ball aimlesly away as he did sunday. He also sold himself rushing up in defence and missing his man too often. What has Monye done at international level to suggest he can step it up? Seems to offer no threat to me, shame 1/2p got injured, to be honest I think I'd rather fitzgerald at least he looks like a footballer.

whens tuesday team announced?

I really do not think Williams (Shane) should play. He is not playing well. It is hard to argue otherwise. He may still play as he definitely has the ability to turn a game. Personally Kearney would be on the wing for me.

Shandy - POC is world class. Certainly would not question that. I personally think he has not played well (I have not read the Times BTW). I reckon he is aware that his place is relatively safe and as such I expect a big step up from him in the tests

Kearney would be zero threat to the Boks (quality fullback though), Monye has done nowt special in his whole international career that I've seen, same for Fitzgerald, at least Williams will worry the opposition and draw defenders giving others space. Wiliams, one interception apart hasnt done much wrong and has beat the odd defender but not been put into space. It will depend on how they want to play the game. If they want to kick the leather off the ball then Kearney is the man but he is injured at the moment and surely they would have tried him on the wing by now.

I'm torn between Williams and Wallace at 7, Williams looked a great link man from what I saw of Saturday's game (only had JustinTV for the last couple of games). I know Croft and Williams leaves us light but at least Croft and Heaslip are in form, and Williams looks to be heading that way. Don't forget we have two big centres who can ruck and the front five are solid so we should be able to keep the ball.

Fitz/Monye/Williams is a tough call, McGeechan said he will pick on form and I think thats the right philosophy. He has given Shane too many chances and Fitz hasn't had any game time at wing, although he is a very solid footballer and can finish as he showed in the HEC.

I think there is a bit too much panic going on about the Boks. They are a great side but are very beatable with a decent game plan. There is belief in the squad and there are still plenty of world class players in the Lions side. There are a few nay-sayers who think they are going to get tanked. All they are doing is talking themselves out of enjoying one of the biggest and best spectacles of the sporting calender.

Williams named on the wing for tomorrow night.

B&I Lions: 15 Keith Earls (Munster & Ireland), 14 Shane Williams (Ospreys & Wales), 13 Riki Flutey (Wasps & England), 12 Gordon D'Arcy (Leinster & Ireland), 11 Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster & Ireland), 10 James Hook (Ospreys & Wales), 9 Mike Blair (Edinburgh & Scotland), 8 Andy Powell (Cardiff Blues & Wales), 7 Joe Worsley (Wasps & England), 6 Nathan Hines (Perpignan & Scotland), 5 Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster & Ireland, capt), 4 Simon Shaw (Wasps & England), 3 Euan Murray (Northampton & Scotland), 2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh & Scotland), 1 Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks & England).

Replacements: 16 Matthew Rees (Scarlets & Wales), 17 Adam Jones (Ospreys & Wales), 18 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers & England), 19 David Wallace (Munster & Ireland), 20 Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers & England), 21 Ronan O'Gara (Munster & Ireland), 22 Ugo Monye (Harlequins & England).

So saturday test team likely:

Byrne
Bowe
Bod
Roberts
Monye
Jones
Phillips
Heaslip
Williams
Croft
O'Con
AWJ
Vickery
Mears
Jenkins

seems about right, only player I'd object to strongly is Vickery.

Bench will be interesting if Hook has a good game could he make the bench. Shane seems to have no chance, second games he's been played out of position at 14 with Fitz given chance at 11.

Shandy - Member

IdleJon what you said was that Monye is slow, which is obvious nonsense. All I did was point out that he is not. Trying to make out that Monye is some kind of Nigel Walker/Tom Varndell character is daft, he is an out and out finisher.

My quote was:

IdleJon - Member
"Who's lacking pace, Bowe or Monye?"

Monye from what we've seen [b]so far[/b].

I've just added the bold bit, so you can see where the emphasis was.

I'm surprised at the mention of Nigel Walker because he was the definition of an out and out finisher - he rarely did more than run straight at the try line. Not a player I ever rated, but similar to what you'd claim about Monye, devastatingly quick over 100m. I've always preferred wings who go looking for work.

They are a great side but are very beatable with a decent game plan.

I agree with that though - they are eminently beatable if you get the tactics right. (Easy to say when I'm sat here, not on the field being beaten up!)

I have a feeling that the back row for saturday may be Wallace at 6, Williams at 7, Heaslip at 8 with Croft on the bench, assuming that AWJ starts.

 

[test team] seems about right, only player I'd object to strongly is Vickery.

As for the bench? I'd say Hook has to be there for veratility alone, Blair, because Ellis is dire (though both are lucky even to make the squad), one of AWJ/Hines, Powell probably will get in, Wallace maybe? then who? Ford?? AN Other??

"I'm surprised at the mention of Nigel Walker because he was the definition of an out and out finisher - he rarely did more than run straight at the try line."

Search him out on youtube, he didnt just run straight!

He also established the art of tackling with your face, something Wayne Proctor was able to perfect a few years later!!

Except for Vickery, that is my team. WTF is he doing in there? Did Murray sh!t in Geechs' pillow case?
I'm not sure that he'll be picked, maybe he has a slight injury and won't be fit for tomorrow? If he does start, then I'll feel for Murray as I think he deserves it. Ford? no chance matey - Mears has done more than enough. FG should not be proud of his performance so far, Monyes made some mistakes fair enough but still looks dangerous. FG has looked weak all over the park and completely out of his depth. Hook should make the bench as should Wallace, Flutey, Jones(the proppy one), Kearney, god knows who for S/H (either, they're both sh**) and some others. probably.

If Vickery is ahead of Murray then Geech needs a serious look at himself??
Only logic for that would be expecting to have the scrum negated through dodgy refereeing!

Interesting that Hines is playing 6 tomorrow. Reckon that looks like a bench spot for him to cover the back 5.

Still not convinced about Croft and Williams in the same back row. Both deserve a place though so a tough call.

Really hope thay have Hook on the bench and bring him on

Whatever happened to Peel?
I thought he was one of the best S/Hs around for a fair while but Phillips seems to be in favour. Phillips is good but I'd prefer an on form Peel. Has he pissed someone off, out of form, injured?
Also is the story about Popham true? (the team sheet/mobile phone thing?)

Been away for the weekend so couldnt keep up with everything but looks like the team choice for tomorrow tells us who is most likely to start on saturday. I know geech says he hasnt decided but I think unless anyone who is playing tomoz has a blinding game i dont think they will be starting on Saturday

Phillips is good but I'd prefer an on form Peel. Has he pissed someone off, out of form, injured?

Pissed Gatland off by moving out of Wales to Sale, he also declared himself unfit for Wales tour to SA last summer. Then he got to Sale and sufferred from a tombola selection policy and his form and confidenace dropped. Played for Wales against Canada the other week.

"anagallis_arvensis - Member
"I'm surprised at the mention of Nigel Walker because he was the definition of an out and out finisher - he rarely did more than run straight at the try line."

Search him out on youtube, he didnt just run straight!"

Hey, I saw him often enough from the terraces, no need for YouTube. The archetypal fast Welsh wing. Every single club in Wales had at least one, but his claim to fame was that he was an Olympic/Commonwealth hurdler and that single point gave him an undeserved place in the Welsh team almost before he'd played any rugby.

The same happened at roughly the same time with Derwyn Jones - just because he was 6ft10" he basically had his place in the Welsh team booked. The fact he was awful anywhere apart from lineout was irrelevant.

Bad days for Welsh rugby.

Of course now I'm a bit older and less partisan it may be worth revisiting these 'classic' players to see if they are as poor as I remember. I'll save that for another night.

(Oh and AA, I'll give you the fact that Walker scored a few good tries for Wales.)

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Ugo Monye = poor mans Nigel Walker!!

Thats a joke by the way!!

What I was trying to say is that Monye can finish but there is more to his game than clueless pace, he does come inside as well. My memories of Nigel Walker are all "headless chicken" but I'll have to reconsider after that wonder-score!

Melon is Gethin Jenkins nickname not Worsley's!

there is a better feed on http://europeanrugbyfans.com but you have to register on the site

My mates brother Steve Pill got picked before Walker for Welsh U18's Walker went off to Athletics. Steve was hailed as the future of Welsh rugby. Sadly Steve turned out to be a bit flaky and never fulfilled his early promise. I saw him play a few times at Newbridge when his head was in the right place he was an amazing player.

Looks like todays game is the one to beat up on the tourists. Come on Lions if they want to dish it then dish it back.

They have announced the SA team now as well. no real surprises mind you.

Think the Lions test team is pretty nailed down - just back row and wing to decide upon I reckon

Bah! Murray injured and off after one tremendous scrum.

Lions look like a bits and pieces team tho - still Earls and Hines both doing well out of position. Blair a real mixed bag. Still losing the brakdown

Humpf! Pffttffpt

Balls - I didn't realise it was an afternoon kick off. Hopefully sky will have series linked it. Just read the BBC sport play by play and it didn't make good reading - were they total pish or just a bit pish? No mention of Ford until he was subbed and the 2nd best scrum half in Scotland was mentioned about 4 times for knock-ons or dropped passes.

"edit"And if you press the submit button twice you post the same thing twice"edit" 😳

Hugo - the lions looked rather disjointed - MUrray off with a leg injury after the first scrum, Hook off with a head knock early on.

Blair had a mixed bag - some really good stuff and some not nearly so good. Nice tidying up of loose ball but some passes not to hand. Put hinself around the park tho

ford was not obvious around the park

I thought Blair and O'Gara were dreadful - they seemed to kill the momentum every time they got the ball. Mind you, the Sky commentators were talking about ROG being in the test team.

I thought Blair was better than Ellis - but that ain't saying a great deal - cleaned up some bad ball well but some passes not to hand - I thought he was much quicker than Ellis from the rucks. Rog made a try saving tackle

Rog made a try saving tackle

Blimey!!! How was Monye on defence? Still rushing up and missing?