Went to my local uplands - Berkshire Ridgeway - this morning for a quick ride.
Instead of them being sunny I found them to a bleak and claggy mudfest that jammed up everything with no chance of progress.
Starting to feel we've been lied to.
when rUK hand then the shitty end of the stick in negotiations for access to rUK markets, FoM, security and probably some sort of currency/credit arrangement.
They might try that for sure. If they do they will be very suprised how it turns out. Play hardball on the £ ( part owned by scotland) and take all the debt! Play hardball on access and bingo - balance of payments issues so on for rUK
doublethink.
Every single argument for or against brexit can be equally applied to Scottish independence. I can see many good reasons why Scotland would benefit from being independent. That being the case..
Good news! Big Nige is looking out for our interests. Seems a bit focussed on pensioners for some reason...
https://flic.kr/p/2koZte4
https://flic.kr/p/2koV3iS
Would the Scots not be better aiming for regulatory alignment with the EU as opposed to Westminster rather than going for independence?
Not sure how far current legislation allows for this, could be as simple or as complicated as recognising EU standards but not the duplicate Westminster version - obviously just as much a false argument as Westminster duplicating them in the first place.
Of course that would mean border checks to ensure sub-standard goods don't enter Scotland but since BoJo has acceded to a de-facto border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK it shouldn't be a problem.
Full independence from Westminster is now essential. How hard that is depends on Westminster. There is a common travel area between the UK and Ireland - that could be duplicated. Westminster wants to play hardball then thats to its loss as well as ours
They might try that for sure. If they do they will be very suprised how it turns out. Play hardball on the £ ( part owned by scotland) and take all the debt! Play hardball on access and bingo – balance of payments issues so on for rUK
They need us more than we need them!
Honestly, I don't want to get into an argument about Scexit, stay or go as you please I care not, but please be realistic about the outcome - this is the lesson of Brexit.
TJ - i understand the sentiment behind independence for scotland very well. it seems you don't appreciate what a large factor it is. if it comes down to it i'll wish an independent scotland the very best of luck.
Bojo didn't seem too keen on a scots referendum yesterday, when pushed by Marr.
Del - sorry dude - you clearly do not if you equate scots and english nationalism. Its not about sentiment for a great many of us. Its about understanding that scotland could be a better richer country as independent.
Would the Scots not be better aiming for regulatory alignment with the EU as opposed to Westminster rather than going for independence?
How? The UK government has introduced new legislation specifically to prevent this. If they had allowed a NI style relationship for Scotland (much as the SNP proposed in a paper before UK:EU negotiations began) then that sensible approach may well have worked... the UK saying "we're doing all this OUR way", and refusing any carve out for Scotland, has given the independence movement a shot in the arm.
People analysing what has changed, and will further change, are often those “getting on with” adapting to those changes. You can be sure those with their heads in the sand and imagining great but unidentified things are doing little to adapt.
Exactly this....
How long before the Brexists realise what they’ve done
Won't happen.
It'll be the fault of the EU for punishing us.
It'll be the fault of remoaners for not getting behind it.
It'll be the fault of all the illegal immigrants forced on us by the EU who are all taking our jobs whilst getting a free house and a million pounds a minute in benefits share if you think this is a disc race.
It'll be the fault of all the secret non-brexies in Parliament sabotaging talks.
It'll be the fault of the middle classes looking down on us.
It'll be the fault of experts, what do they know?
It'll be the fault of the cyclists, they don't pay road tax.
It'll be the fault of the Muslims for, I don't even know any more, being brown and talking a bit funny?
But it will never, ever, EVER be their fault.
An innate inability to accept any sort of responsibility for everything that's wrong in their lives has been a key player since long before 2016. That's not going to change.
The key difference between Scottish Independence and Brexit is that Scotland has an achievable goal in mind.
Brexit was all about regaining sovereignty whilst simultaneously maintaining access to any market we liked without having to pay attention to what johnny foreigner has to say about it. It is a literal impossibility unless the UK decides to create Empire 2.0 by invading countries.
Scotland has the goal of becoming a small country with strong links to Europe. This accepts both the benefits and the limitations.
There are lots of details to be worked out and it is no way going to be a straight forward process but the good thing about having a realistic goal in mind is that it allows you to make the compromises you have to without crossing your own red lines every five minutes.
Brexit was sold as "everything" to "everyone", whilst in reality being everything for the few at the top who were in charge.
Brexit will be a success - just not the success they sold it as.
A titanic success infact.
If we don’t move our focus to finding the best/least worse way forward, these threads do become little more than Remoaner echo chambers
This.
But it will never, ever, EVER be their fault.
This country was never perfect, and they have further stripped away what was good, what mattered to me.
Tomorrow the boundaries commission will report, the tories could gain up to 14 more new seats, this could mean they still get a majority on even less percentage of the vote. Parliament will not get a vote on the changes(not that it mattered as it currently stands).
We have a virus which to all intents and purposes, is out of control as it currently stands with a Government still acting indifferent to it.
So the question is, how much more are you prepared to lose before you take action against your transgressors? (continual moaning on here is not action)
Achieved a bitmore than expected? Have you read the agreement?
Not every word and I doubt many others have, I have spend a few hours dipping into it and reading summaries from people who know about bits of it and have read those bits. I also read the rest of your post.
Your summary of my comment misses out an important word - achieved a bit more than *I* expected. Just a bit - overall my expectations were broadly met, but being honest, they were slightly exceeded.
Did you place your expectations too high?
Do the checks on lorries/goods at the border crossings constitute 100% checks (ie every lorry/item) or is there a certain % of vehicles/goods which need to be checked (UK->EU)?
I assume (NI->UK) these checks wont be so stringent?
Penny dropping? (joke BTW before you all bite)
https://twitter.com/iaintheeuropean/status/1346054633005973505?s=20
Because we are fed up of being dragged down by England
****'s sake TJ listen to yourself for once.
FTSE is up 2.8% :wrysmile:
FTSE is up 2.8% :
Disaster capitalists happy then 👍
Penny dropping?
If you live by "in visual range only"...
Because we are fed up of being dragged down by England
****’s sake TJ listen to yourself for once.
Very much this - believe it or not, a lot of us English folk aren't happy about it either, but we don't have the option of shrugging our shoulders and ****ing off out of it.
We could/should all be much better off working together. Apparently that's not how TJs socialism works though
If you live by “in visual range only”…
But we were promised chaos at the borders and food shortages. What went wrong? (tongue in cheek again, I know the answer)
Disaster capitalists happy then 👍
And non-disaster types. Markets thrive on certainty, deals bring certainty, no-matter how they come about or what they involve.
Very much this – believe it or not, a lot of us English folk aren’t happy about it either, but we don’t have the option of shrugging our shoulders and **** off out of it.
We could/should all be much better off working together. Apparently that’s not how TJs socialism works though
Scotish nationalists (dislike england) = Good
English nationalists (dislike everyone) = Bad
Is it worse to be xenophobic towards one group or all groups?
Very much this – believe it or not, a lot of us English folk aren’t happy about it either, but we don’t have the option of shrugging our shoulders and **** off out of it.
Yeah, but the problem is that the majority (actually, not the majority, just the largest minority thanks to the UK election system) are happy about it.
I don't think that TJ is saying that all English people are ****ers (or maybe he is) but thanks to a deeply undemocratic system of government England is on a downward spiral and it's taking Scotland (and the other nations) with it.
No Greyspoke this government met my expectations in respect to getting a trade deal.
Its s**t even by Brexiteer standards.
Boris is holding up the bag of s**t like a trophy. Its all Emperors new clothes in a digital age.
Scotish nationalists = Good
English nationalists = Bad
Actually,
Scottish nationalists = We want to be a small country with close ties to the EU
English nationalists = We want UNICORNS AND NO FOREIGNERS!!!
****’s sake TJ listen to yourself for once.
The Scottish government tried working with the UK government... all their compromises as regards the Brexit process and outcome were thrown back in their faces. If you don't want to use the word "dragged"... how about "ignored"... or "forced"... or "belittled"....?
The key difference between Scottish Independence and Brexit is that Scotland has an achievable goal in mind.
Nonsense. Scotland is far more integrated with England economically, politically and culturally than the UK was with the EU. Unravelling 300+ years of complete economic and political integration with England would be several orders of magnitude more difficult than the UK leaving the EU.
But we were promised chaos at the borders
Have you tried booking any deliveries across borders as part of your work yet today?
Nonsense. Scotland is far more integrated with England economically, politically and culturally than the UK was with the EU. Unravelling 300+ years of complete economic and political integration with England would be several orders of magnitude more difficult than the UK leaving the EU.
You're saying you can't possibly imagine Scotland becoming a small country with close ties to Europe?
Haven't you just spent several pages criticizing others for not being able to imagine any positives of Brexit?
What about UK nationalists, do they exist or are they allowed to exist?
Scottish nationalists = We want to be a small country with close ties to the EU
English nationalists = We want UNICORNS AND NO FOREIGNERS!!!
UK nationalists = We want to shape a destiny for our country which isn't bound by the wishes and desires of 27 others debating what we can and can't do.
Nonsense. Scotland is far more integrated with England economically, politically and culturally than the UK was with the EU. Unravelling 300+ years of complete economic and political integration with England would be several orders of magnitude more difficult than the UK leaving the EU.
Yes no-ones house spans the channel for instance 😀
Yes no-ones house spans the channel for instance
Ignoring Ireland again are we?
UK nationalists = We want to shape a destiny for our country which isn’t bound by the wishes and desires of 27 others debating what we can and can’t do.
You're forgetting the fact that you have cede some of your sovereignty in order to trade with other countries.
What UK nationalists want is 100% sovereignty without any of the downsides.
It is impossible.
Ignoring Ireland again are we?
No that's been sorted by the irish sea border
You’re forgetting the fact that you have cede some of your sovereignty in order to trade with other countries.
What UK nationalists want is 100% sovereignty without any of the downsides.
It is impossible.
I get that, I was just trying to make a point about nationalism.
I get that, I was just trying to make a point about nationalism.
If you were I missed it. What was your point about nationalism?
Haven’t you just spent several pages criticizing others for not being able to imagine any positives of Brexit?
I said it's more difficult not impossible. As I said earlier, I can see many benefits for Scotland if they left the UK. It follows then that the UK leaving the EU might also see some too 🙂
Someone back up this thread said something along the lines " we need to take action not just moan on"
I am taking action by defunding my current government of tax take (directly and indirectly") by giving up my offices i have removed rent, rates, gas, electric, broadband, phonelines all reducing tax. I am not hiring people no PAYE or National insurance, adopting a more aggressive tax managment position including utilisation of pension tax breaks (until Rishi takes them), moving to 100% homeworking so no fuel, trains, hotels food.
How much money is this that the government won't get? Not huge maybe £200k... old school you take from me i take from you? As i said above somewhere its all about social contracts and trust and for me they are currently not being honoured.
I can see many benefits for Scotland if they left the UK. It follows then that the UK leaving the EU might also see some too
Some of the benefits for an Independent Scotland would come about by greater alignment with EEA, starting up FoM again, and possibly EU membership... around in circles we dance... but, flippantly, your simple abstract logic doesn't match the likely details, again.