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Some said Boris' aversion to the truth is due to his part-Turkish ancestry, but it's actually due to his all-ego personality.
Old Soames talking some sense though according to the Beeb
Asked whether Mr Johnson is fit to lead the party in future, he [Soames] says he "doesn't have the stature".
Time and time again his judgement is awry and he shows in this article a remarkable but entirely consistent disregard for the facts, the truth and for all judgement.
He says Boris is a friend of his, "but this is business" - and claims his comments demonstrate "he is not really a serious figure". "Boris needs to grow up," he adds.
How many outrage wagons are there in this thread?!
I don't know - I'm confused! That's why I was asking....
Sod it, I'm going down the pub!
But the whole Brexit debate is bringing political dialogue down to a very low/poor level not seen since the independence nonsense
I don't think you can really refer to it as dialogue. You'd get a higher standard of 'dialogue' in a school playground
This is all about the two sects of the Tory party. They've been dying to have this out for decades. Mix in some deeply personal animosity and petty jealousies between that main self-entitled protagonists, and I think by June you're going to be looking at this little spat as a moral highpoint.
Its a good job theres nothing important at stake
Oh... wait.... hang on a minute....
The Tories always do their bllx in over Europe - they never learn (one thing we agree on Binns 😉 }
But the bare faced Brexit lies (eg cost of membership) repeated every day really are beginning to sound like wee 'eck in all his glory (sic)
Politicians making efforts to influence another countries electoral process. Dreadful
There is a difference between Boris, a journalist, commenting in a UK paper on American affairs and a serving American president visiting the UK to campaign. The equivalent would be David Cameron going to New York during an election and getting trying to persuade Americans to vote one way with an article published in the New York Times.
The equivalent would be David Cameron going to New York during an election
It's a referendum we've got coming up, not an election.
HTH.
I think a referendum is a specific type of election, what with election just meaning choice. Hence the need to specific what kind of election: general election, local election, European election... "HTH"
our deputy chancelor weighing in with 'dog-whistle racism" - WTF is that?
If you don't know what something means, try googling it.
I think a referendum is a specific type of election
I'm sure the candidates will agree.
Are we talking about this Borris Johnson?
"What a relief it must be for Blair to get out of England. It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies,"
and the tribal warriors will all break out in watermelon smiles
(Don't worry it's just satire , obvs)
Hes just your standard Oxford educated elite who thinks racism is fine as part of political discourse
Goldsmith has been exposed as a clueless egoist who's campaign seems to be about saying 'sadiq Kahn and terrorist' enough in the same sentence in the hope that it'll get him the position someone of his good breeding and worthy stature obviously deserves
Private Eye has been covering one of the candidates who's been writing to every elector whose name is Singh saying "Dear Mr Singh, have you ever noticed how amazing Sikhs are, yeah me too PS I love that big temple in India, would you vote for me? Cheers", which is a bit odd because not all the recipients are Sikh and few still like to be pandered to so obviously. I now cannot remember for the life of me whether it's Khan or Goldsmith that's doing it, though
Obama's back of the queue comments drown everything else out. Britain and America's ties go beyond the frickin EU so who the frig does he think he is with his sassy threats. He's nothing more than an outgoing president acting as Dave's lackey. Jog on.
BJ seems to be infected by the tide of racism sweeping across the Eton party, with Beetroot Face joining in Goldsmith's vile slurs on his mayoral rival.
Just for a bit of balance here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12193925/The-Labour-Party-is-increasingly-anti-Semitic.html
Britain and America's ties go beyond the frickin EU so who the frig does he think he is with his sassy threats
The US is like the UK's first girlfriend: you think about them a lot more then they think about you...
As much as the Brexiters don't like to believe it, I suspect there is a lot of truth in what he has said.
They will negotiate an agreement with a bigger trading block, so yes it means we fall down the list.
No love in politics is there
Not sure what old BJ is trying to achieve here.
He's positioning himself to take over the leadership of the Conservative Party. I don't think he particularly cares about Europe either way.
I now cannot remember for the life of me whether it's Khan or Goldsmith that's doing it, though
Goldsmith
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/16/zac-goldsmith-leaflet-british-indians-heirlooms
The EU Referendum is in June, but next month there are Parlimentary/Assembly Elections in 3 of the UKs 4 Nations. Judging by BBC coverage of them they think Trump is running in Scotland, Clinton in Wales and NI...well let's be honest we'll never see any political news from NI again on UK News unless they start rewiring car ignition circuits with Semtex again.
As much as the Brexiters don't like to believe it, I suspect there is a lot of truth in what he has said.
They will negotiate an agreement with a bigger trading block, so yes it means we fall down the list.
No love in politics is there
The US has been finding it very tough going trying to negotaige with the EU which is very cautious in dealingbwith the US. If Britain where to leave the EU its quite likley those negotiations would stall completely. It has been the UK which has been pushing the EU towards a deal with the US.
As others have said on TV today Obama is a lame duck President, come November he is gone. We would get more insight if we asked Trump/Cruz or Clinton the question as one of them will be President come the time of any negotiations.
@allthepies, sorry to miss the fun today but we all have life away from STW from time to time. Won't be around much this weekend either as campaigning to do and 400 leaflets to deliver, co volunteers have another 600 to do also.
What does it mean when, upon hearing someone being accused of racism, you immediately assume it's directed at you?
Not at all @Northwind, not for one second did I think that remark was directed at me. It was clearly directed at Boris
@binners it seems it was #Livingstonebollix after all based on the quote posted by @just5minutes
Boris has never had a good relationship with Obama not least as the Americans have refused to pay £9m in London Congestion Charge spuriously claiming its not a toll but a tax and therefore with their diplomatic status refusing to pay it.
@tmh if Vote Leave wins Boris is a shoe in for Party Leader within 12 months, if Remain wins Osbourne will have to wait 2-3 years and with more banana skins to come from a Greek default/EU economic crises its not clear he could withstand a challenge from Boris in a leadership contest. All my opinion of course 🙂
If Brexit means no free trade deal between UK and US, as they are concentrating their effort on a trade deal with the EU...
Then doesn't that mean that the NHS is saved from all the negative aspects of TTIP that we were being told about last year?
Bozo is more likely motivated by his history of trying to dodge his own personal US taxes than giving a crap about any issue of public finance.
Then doesn't that mean that the NHS is saved from all the negative aspects of TTIP that we were being told about last year?
Indeed. If only we had politicians in whose hands we would feel safe putting the NHS then the Brexit argument would be a slam dunk.
The US is a union of states who gave up almost ALL their powers to a central government. It was supposed to be a loose federation, not a single country.
Come again? Do you read history?
Every time you mention your pro-out remain fans become almost personal and threatening. I'm for out. Full stop. On another forum in a poll out of 771 polled 62% say leave, 21% remain. No one in the leave camp threatened or insulted anyone.
What is a 'State' hora? Now think about the name of the country Obama is President of. That's your clue.
? Has anyone been threatened here? Jamba comes in for some stick, but only because makes stuff up to support his arguments, which is a trait he shares with bojo
Boris is a shoe in for Party Leader
& what f-ing disaster that would be - BJ is the most transparent politico on the market at the moment when it comes to putting his ambition first..
A country formed out of destroying the indigenous people torn apart by civil war. I don't think it was a consensus
If Britain where to leave the EU its quite likley those negotiations would stall completely.
Why? All that is happened is the state got a little smaller - it will have no impact on the talks at all. That is like arguing that if Alaska left the US union or california negotiations would stall. TBH i cannot even see why anyone would think this is remotely likely to happen let alone write it down as a serious point.
Yes apart from us the EU has no interest in free trade at all 😕It has been the UK which has been pushing the EU towards a deal with the US.
I love this without us they are nothing and they will collapse without us Brexiters meme.
JY as I posted EU is very US sceptic, its the UK which is pushing the deal and the terms are very "corporate power" orientated and very much against left leaning EU political bias. Portollio on This Week said, "I'd love to take Obama to a session of the EU so he can experience the hostility that exists towards the US"
@kimbers I have strongly held views based on facts and my interpretation of fhem, you and others don't like many of them as they generally justify government policy here and abroad.
As for Conservative divisions you have a Laboir party lead by a leader who is deeply eurosceptic yet is campaigning to remain in a EU he wants tomsee reformed. What he's skipping over is that the EU will indeed continue to reform and mive further and further away from what he wants. Its a political project for a United States of Europe. Whether they can get there I son't kniw as the imoending Greek default could well destroy it in a massive and very messy financial crises far mkre severe than 2007/8
Personally I hold both BJ and BO in equal contempt pair of self serving dog fiddlers.
Alaska to US v UK to EU.
I think that's a different form of proportionality.
There's lots of trade between Germany-UK, UK-France either way and it's not just 'luxury cars' as one stated yesterday. Do you think German leadership will want to lose this trade route/partnership that might harm their own economy/businesses?
A solution will be offered at the 11th hour. It'll be brinkmanship. In the run up though we'll see more threads and smears from Tory politicians aimed at us, the leave voters.
Oh but if we leave the Tories will be able to do whatever they want? Vote them out then.
Obama coming here and telling us how to think. The recent Obama speech telling us why we should remain talking about WWII together but he omits the massive debt the US strung us with to help the demise of our influeblnce globally. Now the silver-tongued speaker is telling us that 'xenophobia' if leaving the EU is linked to facism that we all fought together. He's not said it directly but linked.
As for BJs naked ambition. So what? He might want to be PM. I'd rather have him than Osborne or the bloke who has nice ideas sometimes but is unelectable.
Boris is very popular amongst Tories and centre ground voters, he won the London mayorship and thats a hard thing to do for a Tory given London voter mix. The lefties don't like him nitbleast as deep down they know he's charismatic and popular
BTW I'm out of further discussion. I'm out and know a fair few more who don't want the hassle of being brow beaten but have chosen our direction. Bye
JY as I posted EU is very US sceptic
I can read what i was after, and I realise how foolish this, the evidential base for your assumption.
Repeating what you just said is not evidence.
The lefties don't like him nitbleast as deep down they know he's charismatic and popular
I am going to take an outlandish and wild stab in the dark here and claim that it is his right wing policies that makes left wing people dislike him. I know its a bit radical and out there compared to your rational, non trolly vows 🙄
Hora use california - FFS why do you think I mentioned another state - to avoid that "point" - the removal of one state from the USA would not cease the trade agreement nor will it with the EU
Obama live on BBC news now with a q&a session for young people.
jambalaya - Member - Block User
As others have said on TV today Obama is a lame duck President
They're wrong. 'Lame duck' refers to the time between his successor being elected and sworn in.
I also think he's perfectly within his rights to comment on it, after all the leave campaign say that we'll just trade with other countries. Useful to be able to deflect when the leader of one of those other countries says 'Not that easy'.
Two things I've enjoyed this week are Gove criticising the 'campaign of fear' and then suggesting that voting to remain is like “voting to be hostages locked in the back of the car driven headlong toward deeper EU integration” and then the Vote Leave campaign director's quotes:
“I don’t think it’s Vote Leave’s job to provide figures,” Cummings announced triumphantly, his eyes swivelling manically.“But Vote Leave quotes numerous figures on its website,” said Tyrie, “Most of them misleading or inaccurate.”
“Accuracy is for snake-oil pussies,” Cummings hissed under his breath. “And besides, I’ve got a really bad memory.”
“Is it not true that you only provide the costs of the EU and none of the benefits? You make the same mistake as Boris Johnson. You don’t read carefully enough. Wouldn’t it have been useful to have done some of the maths.”
“It’s just a matter of a few decimal points,” Cummings said.
Tyrie blinked. Earlier on he had been prepared to accept he might have been dealing with an idiot savant. It only now dawned on him that he was just dealing with an idiot complete.
“There are quite a lot of decimal points between £33bn and £16bn,” he pointed out.
We could talk about why the EU was the most corrupt organisation on Earth, we could talk about why Boris Johnson and Michael Gove weren’t actually members of the establishment, we could talk about why everyone in the Treasury and the Bank of England were complete morons, we could talk about all sort of secret threats that secret people were making about secret things that he would have to keep secret, but talking figures wasn’t on the table....
No, he couldn’t confirm whether a Vote Leave advert had been deliberately designed to look like an NHS brochure. No, he couldn’t confirm Britain was in the single market, because we definitely weren’t even though we definitely were. No he couldn’t confirm why Vote Leave was claiming that intra EU trade had fallen since 1999 when official figures showed it had actually gone up by 39%.
So it went on. No, he couldn’t confirm when Vote Leave would make the macro-economic case for Brexit because these figures were obviously top secret and if he were to make them public then they wouldn’t be secret any more. No, he couldn’t name the Goldman Sachs operatives who had bribed everyone in Brussels, because he’d be killed. No, he couldn’t name any of of the umpteen ambassadors who had told him at secret trysts that they really hated the EU because if he did they would all just say he was crazy.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/20/accuracy-is-for-snake-oil-pussies-vote-leaves-campaign-director-defies-mps ]Actual WTF[/url]
BTW I'm out of further discussion. I'm out and know a fair few more who don't want the hassle of being brow beaten but have chosen our direction. Bye
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So what? He might want to be PM
The problem is....he's bloody inept!
Remain who don't really care either way and won't make the effort
Sounds like wishful thinking to me..
@Lifer yes I too think Obama is within his rights to comment althoighbI think the whole PR dog and pony show was way over the top. Whether tou think lame duck is the right term Obama will not be President when any negotiation would take place.
@JY if you cant or won't see how the political bias of the EU is at odds with the US or how over the years the US has challenged the EU over what it sees as illegal state aid for companies like Airbus then there is no hope,for you 😉
@hora indeed. All I can say is that the Leavers are very motivated and will vote. I think there are many who answer Remain who don't really care either way and won't make the effort. Beforevthe campaign started I thoight itbwould be very hard for Leave to win, now I am much more confident
No, he couldn’t name the Goldman Sachs operatives who had bribed everyone in Brussels, because he’d be killed.
Well we could name the Greek lady who made Partner (worth £75m ?) on the back of her special relationship with Greece and lots of clever off state balance sheet currency swaps (or loans to you and me) which where common knowledge but ignored by ECB etc
Sounds like wishful thinking to me..
Call it what you like but there where 15 of us on the Leave stall last wekend with many visitors, 2 blokes on the IN campaign stall and hardly anyone visiting, we watched all morning. Its no co-incidmce the government spent £9.3m on printing and delivering the leaflet as their grass roots operation is very limited, vote Leave has volunteers on the ground doing that work and not reliant on the tax payer
Call it what you like but there where 15 of us on the Leave stall last wekend with many visitors, 2 blokes on the IN campaign stall and hardly anyone visiting, we watched all morning. Its no co-incidmce the government spent £9.3m on printing and delivering the leaflet as their grass roots operation is very limited, vote Leave has volunteers on the ground doing that work and not reliant on the tax payer
Anecdotal evidence.....is just that..
That Cummings Treasury Committee appearance report must be a spoof. No-one could be that much of an insane arsehole.
Anecdotal evidence.....is just that..
Infectious though. Very interesting to have Mrs B alongside and to hear how surpirsed people are when they find out she's French and very much for Leave. The only evidence or poll that matters is on June 23rd
@JY if you cant or won't see how the political bias of the EU is at odds with the US or how over the years the US has challenged the EU over what it sees as illegal state aid for companies like Airbus then there is no hope,for you
I can be convinced by actual facts - do you have any or is it just more of this?
FWIW your point was that the EU dislike the US - this time you seem to have argued that the US hates the EU.