[Closed] Attention Motorcyclists...

I take it that you don't actually drive a car much nowadays.

Probably around 8k miles in private car, 3-4k on motorbike and around 20k in 'company car'.

FWIW I see much worse from car drivers than those on motorbikes on a daily basis for the simple reason that, generally speaking, bike riders are considerably more aware of conditions and are much better at reading the road than those who have only ever driven a car.

Have you read ANY of the posts re safe overtaking and adapting to conditions/circumstances while driving?

reading posts whilst driving is something that I leave to the youngsters...

Ahh so that's why so many old folk get lost on the roads regardless of all the sign posts 😆

druidh - Member

bruk - Member
There are many idiots on 2 and 4 wheels.

I don't see why the Reliant Robin owners are getting off with it!

Or these f888ers
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Well here's my view on it. If Coffeeking and Co were to get on the back of the motorbike of the bikesafe instructor we have been out with,he would have a hairy fit. If said police officer was out in plain clothes/bike or car and witnessed me filtering between cars,that have a two second gap between them,while they are driving under the speed limit.. I can tell you now he would be praising me for doing so. As much as you might think that he would probably want to pull me over for a word,or a fine,you have got it all wrong*

*going by the way I described the scenario.

Cougar - Member
Your average bike will out-brake your average car, pilot wits notwithstanding.

I think you will find that's not true.

 

Will I?

I have just ridden 132 miles the long way home from work via Achnasheen,Coulags,Eilan donan castle and up through Glenshiel. I passed 4 cars in total between 7pm and 9.30pm

Move up here, you rarely get cars on the road!

Mmm disagree about braking distances, on perfect dry roads with a great rider on board possibly close but on standard rubbish roads not a chance!

Yes, cars are quicker at braking simply because they brake with two tyres rather than one, and they're not limited by the vehicle trying to flip over.

I've got some figures from the 27th April 2004 Autocar magazine:

Suzuki GSX-R 1000: 100mph - 0 in 5.63 seconds
Lotus Elise 111R - 4.09 seconds
Peugeot 206 Gti 180 - 4.39 seconds
Porsche 911 GT3 - 4.00 seconds (interestingly, the raw physics suggests that a 911 obtains a 50:50 weight distribution whilst braking fully).

The bike is beaten by everything, including a hot hatch. I'm fairly confident a standard hatch would also beat the bike.

So, the 911 is 1.63 seconds quicker under braking from 100-0. Call that about a second from a typical track top speed to a typical track cornering speed, and it can be seen why bikes often fail to live up to the lap times you'd expect round a race track, especially tight race tracks with lots of braking involved.

Actually never seen a dangerous overtake by a unicyclist so they are excluded. 😀

Cool, I sit corrected. Thanks for the info.

No worries Cougar.

Live and most importantly let live. Respect other road users and try to ignore the tossers.

Cougar; I had a Merc for a while, and found that the only way to make progress was to drive to the stereotype because no-one ever gives you a break or lets you out, ever

Very true. I drive a massive fat-cat businessman's Volvo S80D (I got it cheap!). It's GOLD and has leather seats and everything. No bugger will let me out at junctions - many seem to go out of their way to impede my progress.

Never had any such problems in my Focus estate, Honda Accord or my Portuguese army jeep (the latter also never, ever got ticketed, no matter where I parked it).

It does go both ways though. If I borrow my wife's tiny Fiat Uno, everyone pulls out in front of me and cuts me up.

Cars brake with 4,motorbikes with 2.

Oh and Martinxyz - yes the Highlands are fantastic when the road's quiet, but an undiluted nightmare for most of the Summer IME. It just takes one tourist in a hired car to do 20 round all the corners (90% of the road) and then put the pedal to the metal on the rare straights to turn your journey into a frustrating disaster.

Why do they do this? I have tried to rationalise it and I wonder if they feel guilty that they are going so slowly and holding up a queue of traffic, so burn rubber the moment they feel it's safe to do so, thus preventing safe overtaking?

And I can't even begin to talk about singletrack roads and passing places - despite the abundant signage, the 'normal' practices just vanish from March to September.

Sorry, yes 4 and 2 although most of the braking is done with the front wheel(s).

Still reinforces how with modern abs and big fat tyres most cars can brake quicker and more safely on our dodgy roads.

Cougar - Member

I have a theory that many BMW drivers drive the way they do because of exactly this attitude; it leaves them no other choice. I had a Merc for a while, and found that the only way to make progress was to drive to the stereotype because no-one ever gives you a break or lets you out, ever. Indicating just tips people off so they can get the drop on you and block you in.

I drive a BMW and find that most drivers are okay to me (apart from Subura drivers for some reason :?)

However, I think the main reason why is because my BMW is an old 51 plate.

Ahhhh, reminds me of the old filtering thread...
Happy days, happy days indeed!

diesel alfa right?
not a real alfa
not a real alfa driver

nope - my 3rd petrol alfa - went for petrol over diesel as, although the low rev torque isn't as good, engine braking is better!

(I'm actually assuming you're joking here)

of course I am joking about BMWs, it is Audis that really boil my p1ss...

I take it that you don't actually drive a car much nowadays.

Currently doing 700+ miles in a 5 day working week for work.
Hampshire to Cumbria this week, for example. Currently in Carlisle.

Generally I'm a very relaxed driver. I don't rush.

Still reinforces how with modern abs and big fat tyres most cars can brake quicker and more safely on our dodgy roads

You know lots of bikes come with ABS now too ?

You know lots of bikes come with ABS now too ?

This is STW, why let the facts get in the way?

If you just dropped back a bit, there'd be more room for facts.

Rule 163 states:

move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in"

"Plenty of room" is undefined, but no mention is made of two second gaps or stopping distances.

Rule 168 states:

Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. [b]Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.[/b]

Therefore, re-spacing the deck once an overtaking vehicle has pulled in is expected and required.

Sorry to spoil the fun.

29ers suck.

Sorry didn't know most bikes have abs now too. Still dont think they can out brake a car though. You could argue reaction times might be better as riders can see further up road ( as long as no vans etc blocking line of sight etc) but still think that the risk of crashing due to heavy braking on a bike is higher than in a car abs or not.

Have vague memories of seeing abs hydraulic rim brakes on a mountain bike many years ago but dont think they caught on

most

is stretching it a bit Bruk, it's still the minority.

I've only crashed twice under hard braking.

Once was my first race, another was trying to outbrake a British Superstock racing mate. 🙂

Still reinforces how with modern abs and big fat tyres most cars can brake quicker and more safely on our dodgy roads

To be fair I would never doubt a car will outbrake a bike myself. Cars have everything going for them, electronics, grip, not being able to fall off, and very importantly, they don't lift the back end off the floor if you overdo the brakes in a straight line.

Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.

So does this settle it then?

For sure.

So does this settle it then?

combined with

but do not cut in

then yes - not cutting in would preclude dangerously reducing my braking distance.

or cut in and risk that if you caused an accident then those Z2 Bombers would be coming out of my car boot...

So are we saying everyone should wait for a four second gap to slot into before overtaking?

I don't think TurnerGuy is saying that now - he's gone from this

If I have a 2 second gap in front of me then I might accept a bike/car overtaking and leaving me 1.5 seconds whilst I ease off the accelerator to adjust the gap, but any less than that is unacceptable.

then yes - not cutting in would preclude dangerously reducing my braking distance.

For sake of argument, at 50mph, a 2 second gap is approx. 50 yards, so even at half that distance, you still have 25 yards from the bike. Given that an 'average' car length is 15 feet (or 3 yards) long, that still gives you over 8 car lengths of a gap that is presumably still increasing by virtue of a combination of their additional speed and your deceleration!

Can we take it that you have come to the conclusion that as long as someone does not 'cut immediately in front' (which no-one condoned BTW and is very different to filtering as advocated by PP) that your earlier posts were not entirely correct and we have reached an agreement? 😀

So are we saying everyone should wait for a four second gap to slot into before overtaking?

no but they shouldn't reduce my braking distance to something that is dangerous for me, so maybe a second at the very minimum.

There will be a limit to how quickly I can gain my 2 seconds distance back by just easing off the accelerator, so if someone takes too much of my braking distance away then I am going to have to brake, which is something the overtaker should not force me to do.

But you'll have seen him coming and already started to increase your braking distance in anticipation, of course.

What tyres for overtaking cars on a motorbike?

There will be a limit to how quickly I can gain my 2 seconds distance back

You seem quite obsessed with this 2 second 'rule'. Do you ever overtake anything on the open road? I'm wondering how you manage to count 2 seconds to the car about to be overtaken (reducing to zero at some point in the manoeuvre and presumably inducing considerable moistness in your undercrackers) while also trying to ascertain whether there is over 3-4 seconds between the car the car you are overtaking and the one you will slot in behind!

I'm getting a headache just thinking about it 8)

you will be able to see much further ahead than just the bike and car in front

except when they go over the brow of a hill, or round a bend, or the car in front is a van or something that I can't see through.

What tyres for overtaking cars on a motorbike?

I've fount that any round, rubbery ones will do the job time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time.

And that's just filtering through one small queue.

😀

then yes - not cutting in would preclude dangerously reducing my braking distance.

Actually, I'd forgotten one tinsy-winsy detail:

At our nominal 50mph/50yd gap I'll pull right to the front of that gap, near the car in front of you, reducing your space by 5 yards, maybe a tad more.
i.e. Bugger all difference to you

Where does that leave the "FORCING us to BRAKE" advocates now, hmmm?

Now that's checkmate again. I win 2 games to nil.

Note:
Remember, I'm making my decisions, I don't need you to make them for me.....

Crikey there are some grumpy jerks here! and some inconsiderate ones. Speaking from the point of view of a mororcyclist for 33 years, a car driver for 32 and a cyclist for 40 I reckon I have seen a lot.
tyhe m/c who slots into a space allocated by a driver as his stopping space is a t***. Some dimwit above reckons that as the car can see past the m/c the stopping space is still there. not when the deer that started the thread walks out , or you stall it, or you go onto reserve etc. All seen this summer. then the m/c or what ever stops dead. By doung such a thing you are dead selfish and just plain thick. ah well evolution may get you, sooner rather than later.
I do filter on my m/c, part of the reason for having it but I do not screw up other drivers. I do take great pleasure in ensuring that no one does it to me though by being deadly boring and playing by the book.
As usual the selfish sods come out to play.
It's easy, if you play by the rules, not the ones you want then you are correct. If not, rude word deleted as its a family forum
anyway, that deers, was it near Staunton? there is a lovely guts stain all over the road with signs of it being spread for yards.
Better to hit a deer than a boar though. the latter don't give

It's easy, if you play by the rules

I do. All the printed ones quoted above and the other, unprinted ones. 🙂

Well. Maybe I go over the speed limit a tinsy winsy little bit now and again. Hey Ho! 😉

Crikey there are some grumpy jerks here!

tyhe m/c who slots into a space allocated by a driver as his stopping space is a t***.

Some dimwit above reckons that as the car can see past the m/c the stopping space is still there.

As for being hit by a deer, shit happens (you could also be hit by a light aircraft) but going onto reserve or stalling and stopping dead? Have you not got a clutch??

I'll pull right to the front of that gap, near the car in front of you

perfect, just what is wanted - I will be only to happy to pull back, maybe even brake, in order for to adopt a safer position on the road, if I haven't already started doing so.

Who said that?

you - read your own post above.

Who said that?
you - read your own post above.

I thought it was me to be honest.

Do you mean this

But in the 'real world' with your all-round observation skills, you will be able to see much further ahead than just the bike and car in front, so will still be able to maintain a safe margin.

Interesting that you should take that so literally. By your logic, no-one should overtake and pull in until they are at least two seconds ahead of you. Surely staying on the other side of the road for that long presents a much more dangerous scenario than pulling in safely at the earliest opportunity without cutting across, as advocated in the Highway Code.

You might like to have a look at the video linked below and if you are really feeling anal, time the gaps between cars.

It would, of course be much quicker and safer on a bike 😉

[url= http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/movies/single-veh-overtake.html ]Single vehicle overtake video[/url]